WhoDat

You\'re referencing THIS board? That doesn\'t seem like third party verification to me. Can I get an outside link from an established professional please?

See how fun this can be for everybody?

Danno

OK you made me laugh. I\'ve officially lightened up. Thanks.

WhoDat

I try... but really where\'s the proof? In the pudding, or in the eye of the beer holder?

JKool

I hope it is not in the eye of the beer holder... I cringe when I think of some of the errors I\'ve made when lookin\' at things with a beer in hand... I guess, I\'m hopin\' its in the puddin\'.

GumboBC

WhoDat --

I suppose it COULD be Haslett\'s fault that Grady had problems here. Haslett could have created a situation that produced a bad working enviroment for Grady.

But, if this is true, why didn\'t every player on the Saints follow Grady\'s path? Deuce certainly didn\'t seem to have a problem with the way things were run last year. As a matter of fact, Deuce excelled in the same enviroment that Grady was in.

I have to wonder how Deuce could thrive in the same enviroment that was detrimental to Grady Jackson. My opinion is, Deuce just has stronger character than Grady Jackson.

These arent kids that should have to be baby-sat out there. These are GROWN MEN, who make millions of dollars, to play a game.

If Grady was insulted or somehow got his feelings hurt by Haslett, I wonder what Grady would have thought if Vince Lombardi was his coach? And, I think we have a good idea what someone like Parcells would have told Grady.

Now, I\'m happy for Grady. He seems to be on the right path in Green Bay. But, Grady has a history of problems that date back way before his introduction to Haslett.

Grady is starting to be one of those players that bounces around the league, largely because of his own self-inflicted damage.

I\'m pulling for Grady, but he\'s going to have to play more than 5 or 6 games in Green Bay to prove to me that he\'s a changed man.

Bise

Grady is starting to be one of those players that bounces around the league, largely because of his own self-inflicted damage.


You are being to generous...... I prefer the term \"jiggles\" around the league ....

WhoDat

Here we go again....

Every time something like this happens, certain members of the board are quick to write the guy off as a person of low character (Grady, Joe Johnson, Kyle Turley...). Well, this begs a couple of questions.

First, if these players are such bad eggs, why did our coaching staff sign them in the first place? I remember Haslett speaking very highly of all three of those players I mentioned. So what happened? Did they degenerate into worthless piles of garbage in a year or two? If so, why did it happen in New Orleans? Or were they always problems and our coaches either couldn\'t see that or chose to ignore that?

Any way you look at it, Haslett has to accept some responsibility here. No one made him sign Grady Jackson. IT was no secret about the type of player Grady was before he got here. Haslett chose to sign him anyway.

When you single out one player, it\'s easy to make the argument that he\'s just a \"cancer\". However, when you look at the big picture, you see an organization that has consistently had a problem with \"personalities\" over the last 4 years. Haslett\'s tenure has been riddled with locker room problems, players speaking out and leaving, disappointments, and a number of gambles that didn\'t pay off (Carter, Grady, Albert Connell...). If you guys want to ignore what seems to me to be a pretty clear and consistent trend, go right ahead.

You guys must realize that by acknowledging that Haslett has his faults, you\'re not saying that a) you think he is a bad coach, or b) that you want him to fail. I mean, both BC and Danno have said in the not too distant past that the coaches are a problem. Well, if that is the case, why do you support every move they make? Are they good talent evaluators but bad at the Xs and Os? If they are bad at the Xs and Os, then how do you know that they even really understand what kind of players they need in the first place? The questions could go on forever; my point is simply that I am perplexed by the two of you speaking out about the coaches and then defending the moves that they make.


Further, BC if you need more proof that there is a problem under Haslett, just look at this team\'s discipline. You\'re right that Haslett SHOULD not have to babysit these men. However, when antics off the field go unchecked, it can show on the field. Weren\'t you the one arguing last year about all of the penalties, missed blocks, dropped passes, etc? That\'s poor execution and it is basically nothing more than a function of discipline. Haslett, by being a \"players coach\", or for whatever other reason, has created an environment that allows players to be undisciplined and that creates conflict or brings out character flaws... and we wonder why our young players don\'t develop.

\"Excuses, excuses, excuses. That’s all anyone ever makes for the New Orleans Saints’ organization.\" - Eric Narcisse


\"Being a Saints fan is almost like being addicted to crack,\" he said.[i]\"You know you should stop, but you just can\'t.\"

GumboBC

WhoDat --

Look, I\'m done defending Haslett. And, let me tell you something else. If we don\'t do SOMETHING this year, I\'ll be the first one calling for Haslett to be fired.

Now, I think you bring up some VALID points. Haslett has a pattern of having some \"cancers\" on this team. But, I prefer to judge each one of those \"cancers\" on their on merits. You are also lumping some players in there that weren\'t let go because they are \"cancers.\"

I never considered Joe Johnson a cancer, nor have I ever heard Haslett refer to him as a cancer. Kyle Turley I don\'t think was a cancer, but he was very hot-headed. I think Haslett could have handled it better, but I also think Turley could have handled it better too. I have to say though, it is troubling that we\'ve had some problem players.

You don\'t like Haslett, I understand that. I know you are going to call him on anything that is questionable. But, I\'m going to try to judge him fairly. I suppose everyone has their own opinion as to what is fair. I\'m not here to bash him and I\'m not here to defend the guy. But the players have to be professionals too.

JKool

I think virtually everyone here falls into two camps on Haz (and I\'m sure I\'ll take some flack for saying this): (1) Haz blows, should a been gone last year, and (2) Haz pretty well blows, we\'ll still give him this last chance.

That said, I think there is an important point Billy missed (welcome back btw): supporting a move by the coach is not (necessarily) supporting the coach. E.g. I have a really, really dumb cousin, but every once in awhile, he does something good. He got his mom flowers for her B-day - I support such a move, but I do not support his eating dirt (or many other things he does or represents).

"... I was beating them with my eyes the whole game..." - Aaron Brooks

saintfan

Quick, somebody knock that chip off Gator\'s shoulder before he has to have it surgically removed! Jeesh, man...lighten up already.


You\'re absolutely right whodat. He surely does...the responsibility for signing Grady is all on Jim, but Gradys inability to get his fat act together is all on Grady. If Jim made a mistake signing Grady then I suspect he\'s in good company. Name me ONE coach that has never had problems with players in a similar fashion. You know you can\'t, because some people just don\'t respond. Bill Parcells is having similar troubles with a particular Offensive Lineman here in Dallas...yes even Bill Parcells has failed to get the man to lose weight. Please tell me you can at least see my point.

Which antics are you speaking about Whodat? Jim simply cannot control EVERYthing these players do! He can fine \'em, and he does. I recall an article from a training camp or two ago that mentioned how Jim was fining players for being late to meetings and missing their preferred weight etc. Just what is it, exactly, that you want him to do? You can complain about Turley having an attitude problem, but I don\'t see any solutions being suggested other than to fire Haz...as if that would magically correct all the players personal problems and immediately have unseasoned players in the pro bowl. Do you (or any of you naysayers) think Bill Parcells would have kept Kyle Turley on his team? I think the safe bet is he wouldn\'t have tolerated it and tried to work it out even to the extent that Haz did.

Is there another team in the NFL that hasn\'t signed a player(s) that didn\'t work out? Is there another team in the NFL that didn\'t speak highly of their recent signee whether he was worth the praise or not? Are there other teams that signed a \"quality\" player only to see him not perform up to expectations? You want to single Haz out as if he\'s the only coach (successful or otherwise) with these issues, and he\'s not. FYI Joe Johnson\'s issues were with the contract negotiations as I recall. Why is he even mentioned?

I can see your points Whodat...I really can. I know where you\'re coming from, but try and see the Sunshine side for a sec. I jump on this board and regardless of what the situation is or the variables attached you\'re quick to the trigger when it comes to Haslett. Surely you can see at least SOME of what I\'m trying to say here. If you can\'t I have to think its because you won\'t.

The thing is that there is NOTHING the man can do to please some of you. EVERYTING he does or doesn\'t do gets weighed against his ability to coach, and it seems as tho the people doing that aren\'t taking into account that these players are PROFESSIONALS -- and sadly some of \'em just don\'t get it. They must be responsible to the team...and I betcha that\'s what Parcells would tell \'em too.

In spite of some sarcastic comments on this thread, I haven\'t seen anyone defend EVERY move the team has made or EVERY thing about a particular palyer. It just seems that way to the short sighted because they refuse to see all the variables.

C'mon Man...