A theory on Brooks

WhoDat · 05-20-2004, 03:36 PM

LMAO - I must have hit a nerve.

So Billy, Bill Walsh was wrong more often than not about QBs? Or was Rick Mirer the EXCEPTION to the rule? You do understand the concept probability, I\'m sure...

GumboBC · 05-20-2004, 03:43 PM

LMAO - I must have hit a nerve.

So Billy, Bill Walsh was wrong more often than not about QBs? Or was Rick Mirer the EXCEPTION to the rule? You do understand the concept probability, I\'m sure...

I understood the concept perfectly. But, here\'s my concept. I compared the ONE analysis made those clowns about Brooks to the ONE analysis made by Bill Waslh about Rick Mirer. I\'m not trying to look at the track records of Bill Walsh and compare it to those clowns. As far as I know those clowns don\'t have a track record -- :P

No, WhoDat, you didn\'t strike a nerve. I just tried to cover all the bases in one post. No need draggin\' it out -- :P LMAO!!

WhoDat · 05-20-2004, 03:44 PM

PS - I\'m going to try and play nice here Billy. I wasn\'t insulting your intelligence with my post but rather demonstrating how I like to look at trends over time, which is why I tend to be generally more \"pessimistic\" than you. On the contrary, you like to look at the exceptions to the rule, which is why you\'re generally more \"optimistic\" than I. I wasn\'t knocking your personality, but the more I read your response the more it pisses me off.

I\'m close minded? OK, I\'ll take \"close minded\" and right over \"open minded\" and totally wrong all of the time. Shall I dig up the 12-4 quotes again? Shall I dig up the WhoDat was right thread?

Don\'t put words in my mouth Billy. I would have Haslett gone, yes. And I would have had Brooks on the bench behind Delhomme too. Saintfan said the same thing after Ditka left, so don\'t be so quick to judge. I was simply making a jovial post about our differences. But hey, if I were you, the truth might hurt me too.

[Edited on 20/5/2004 by WhoDat]

WhoDat · 05-20-2004, 03:47 PM

I understood the concept perfectly. But, here\'s my concept. I compared the ONE analysis made those clowns about Brooks to the ONE analysis made by Bill Waslh about Rick Mirer. I\'m not trying to look at the track records of Bill Walsh and compare it to those clowns.

That about sums up the way you make ALL of your analysis. ONE event, not all of them. But go ahead and show us how open minded you are by calling professional analysts clowns b/c they disagree with your opinion. You were calling me a clown last off-season too weren\'t you? Hhmm - funny how that stuff works out.

BlackandBlue · 05-20-2004, 03:54 PM

Oh, I know B&B didn\'t bring up what was said about Brooks to further any agenda he has. I understand you were just passing along the info...

My reasons are my own. Sometimes I post things just to watch the song and dance that will inevitably ensue.

GumboBC · 05-20-2004, 04:03 PM

WhoDat --

Calm down. I actually respect your opinion highly. I do think you are close-minded sometimes, though. So am I. No one is going to change my mind about Brooks. I think Brooks is a good QB already. Only time will tell if he will be great. No \"expert\" is going to change my view of that.

Look, I\'m no genius. I\'m wrong all the time. I wish I had it all figure out. I\'d be in Vegas bettin\' the house.

As far as puttin\' words in your mouth? I only said what you have said in the past. You put words in my mouth ALL the time. Remember? \"Penalties are worse than turnovers?\" I don\'t get upset about it. I just tell ya I didn\'t say that.

It\'s no shame in being wrong about the NFL, WhoDat. The \"experts\" are wrong just as much as you and I.

Really, this is all B&B\'s fault. I bet the little ****** is sitting there eatin\' popcorn waiting on the fireworks :P

Anyway, I didn\'t mean to insult you.

[Edited on 20/5/2004 by GumboBC]

GumboBC · 05-20-2004, 05:17 PM

WhoDat -- Here\'s a little info on Bill Walsh\'s track recored with QB\'s. Not exactly genius.

Walsh has seen bits and pieces of Joe in the following people:

Rick Mirer (dubbed \"the next Joe\" by Walsh prior to the 1993 NFL draft);
Steve Stenstrom (Walsh mistakenly referred to Stenstrom as \"Joe\" during an interview in his second coaching stint at Stanford);
Jake Plummer
Jeff Garcia
and now apparently Dick Vermeil.

Update: Walsh is backpedaling so much on the Druckenmiller issue.
And what of the infamous USA Today quote, in which Walsh alleged that Druck was at the top of the class? In case you\'ve forgotten, we\'ll refresh your memory: \"He can really throw the football,\" Walsh told USA Today in 1997, referring to Druck. \"He\'s got a great arm, comparable to Drew Bledsoe and some of the best arms in the NFL, and he seems to have good command of what he\'s doing. I didn\'t see anybody in his category.\"

Sounds like an endorsement of Druck to us. Yet, now Walsh is backpedaling on that quote: \"If I did (say it) it was ... probably out of a (scout) book,\" Walsh said. \"They say, \'Who are the top quarterbacks?\' And I\'m thinking, \'Now, how do I get off the phone here? Just a minute, let me think about it.\' I\'d never seen Jim play.\"

So there you have it. According to Walsh, he\'s not even responsible for his own opinion -- kinda like Charles Barkley claiming that he was misquoted in his own autobiography. It wasn\'t that Walsh was high on Druck; it was just that some pesky reporter wanted an opinion, so Walsh referred to a scout book and authoritatively passed off the opinion of the book as his own.

Walsh\'s former co-conspirator, Dwight Clark, provides the evidence to impeach Walsh\'s latest statements. Now mangling the roster of the Cleveland Browns, Clark claims that Walsh was far from being an innocent bystander as the Niners nabbed Druckenmiller in the \'97 draft. \"I was in those meetings; I heard Bill say (Druckenmiller) was the most talented quarterback in the draft and that Plummer fit the (49ers\') offense better,\" Clark told the Contra Costa Times. \"I was there; I know what was said. Bill never said which one he would pick. He just made that statement and it was really up to us.\"

According to Clark, then, Walsh did see Plummer as the better fit for the Niners\' rinky-dink West Coast Offense, but he also touted Druck as a better QB, and didn\'t go on record as to which QB San Francisco should take. Two years later, Plummer is a rising star, Druck is a laughingstock, and Walsh wants people to think that he stood squarely behind Plummer the whole time. Genius, isn\'t it?

Apparently, Rams coach Dick Vermeil kinda, but not really, reminded Walsh of Joe. It seems that among the few things Walsh is able to clearly remember is the play of Vermeil, who was a quarterback for San Jose State in the 1950s, when Walsh was a graduate assistant there. According to Walsh, the young Vermeil \"had tremendous energy and was really competitive ... He came in the first year, and I think he might have been a backup. But he had a really solid career as a quarterback and was smallish as you know.\"

Oh, it doesn\'t end there. \"There was some Montana in him,\" Walsh continued. \"I just don\'t think the arms and legs were long enough. He had everything else.\"

Read all of it. Quite interesting...
http://www.49erhaters.com/revisionist.html

kenpersons · 05-20-2004, 07:46 PM

\"Don\'t think, just throw\" is not the advice Brooks needs. Name one Hall of Fame quarterback who got there using this approach.

I do not pose that he should use this philosophy throughout the season. I simply recognize the basic philosophical step it represents in solving the problem. Is it the only step? Nope. Is it a beginning? Very much so.

Equally important is the trust. I can\'t help but wonder if his desire to make big plays takes away from his ability to make the play that is available. Whether he\'s waiting for a deep shot to develope or trying to find Joe Horn, it would be better to scatter the rock and move the sticks. \"Taking what the defense gives you\" as it were.

That said, there is a time to take it from the defense as if it were lunch money. However, becoming a more consistant, accurate, and turnover free quarterback will come from spreading the ball around to open targets instead of trying to get too much done in a hurry.

JKool · 05-20-2004, 10:02 PM

Ok, KP, when do you propose Brooks implement the \"just throw strategy\"? In the preseason (he\'s unlikely to see much playing time there), in practice (a lot of good it\'ll do him then), in the first 8 games of the regular season (yikes)?

I can see it is your view that the the \"just throw strategy\" plays SOME role in correcting for Brooks\' problems, but it just seems to me that what role it plays is either small, insignificant, or inappropriate (depending on when and how it is implemented).

JKool · 05-20-2004, 10:03 PM

PS - I don\'t know how many of you played sand-lot ball once you\'d stopped playing college or junior (or high school), but I have. If a player the calibre of Brooks had been out there in the sand-lot, I would have had to have taken my ball and go home - he would have eaten us alive! I understand it is just a way of saying that \"he\'s not that great\", but \'common, he\'s a starter in the NFL for crying out loud (and would be on several teams - not just ours).

05-20-2004, 03:36 PM	#31
WhoDat 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,631	A theory on Brooks LMAO - I must have hit a nerve. So Billy, Bill Walsh was wrong more often than not about QBs? Or was Rick Mirer the EXCEPTION to the rule? You do understand the concept probability, I\'m sure...
WhoDat 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,631

05-20-2004, 03:43 PM	#32
GumboBC Banned Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 2,616	A theory on Brooks LMAO - I must have hit a nerve. So Billy, Bill Walsh was wrong more often than not about QBs? Or was Rick Mirer the EXCEPTION to the rule? You do understand the concept probability, I\'m sure... I understood the concept perfectly. But, here\'s my concept. I compared the ONE analysis made those clowns about Brooks to the ONE analysis made by Bill Waslh about Rick Mirer. I\'m not trying to look at the track records of Bill Walsh and compare it to those clowns. As far as I know those clowns don\'t have a track record -- :P No, WhoDat, you didn\'t strike a nerve. I just tried to cover all the bases in one post. No need draggin\' it out -- :P LMAO!!
GumboBC Banned Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 2,616

05-20-2004, 03:44 PM	#33
WhoDat 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,631	A theory on Brooks PS - I\'m going to try and play nice here Billy. I wasn\'t insulting your intelligence with my post but rather demonstrating how I like to look at trends over time, which is why I tend to be generally more \"pessimistic\" than you. On the contrary, you like to look at the exceptions to the rule, which is why you\'re generally more \"optimistic\" than I. I wasn\'t knocking your personality, but the more I read your response the more it pisses me off. I\'m close minded? OK, I\'ll take \"close minded\" and right over \"open minded\" and totally wrong all of the time. Shall I dig up the 12-4 quotes again? Shall I dig up the WhoDat was right thread? Don\'t put words in my mouth Billy. I would have Haslett gone, yes. And I would have had Brooks on the bench behind Delhomme too. Saintfan said the same thing after Ditka left, so don\'t be so quick to judge. I was simply making a jovial post about our differences. But hey, if I were you, the truth might hurt me too. [Edited on 20/5/2004 by WhoDat]
WhoDat 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,631	\"Excuses, excuses, excuses. ThatÃ¢Â€Â™s all anyone ever makes for the New Orleans SaintsÃ¢Â€Â™ organization.\" - Eric Narcisse \"Being a Saints fan is almost like being addicted to crack,\" he said.[i]\"You know you should stop, but you just can\'t.\"

05-20-2004, 03:47 PM	#34
WhoDat 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,631	A theory on Brooks I understood the concept perfectly. But, here\'s my concept. I compared the ONE analysis made those clowns about Brooks to the ONE analysis made by Bill Waslh about Rick Mirer. I\'m not trying to look at the track records of Bill Walsh and compare it to those clowns. That about sums up the way you make ALL of your analysis. ONE event, not all of them. But go ahead and show us how open minded you are by calling professional analysts clowns b/c they disagree with your opinion. You were calling me a clown last off-season too weren\'t you? Hhmm - funny how that stuff works out.
WhoDat 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,631

05-20-2004, 03:54 PM	#35
BlackandBlue Kinder, gentler Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: dirty south Posts: 3,889	A theory on Brooks Oh, I know B&B didn\'t bring up what was said about Brooks to further any agenda he has. I understand you were just passing along the info... My reasons are my own. Sometimes I post things just to watch the song and dance that will inevitably ensue.

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05-20-2004, 04:03 PM	#36
GumboBC Banned Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 2,616	A theory on Brooks WhoDat -- Calm down. I actually respect your opinion highly. I do think you are close-minded sometimes, though. So am I. No one is going to change my mind about Brooks. I think Brooks is a good QB already. Only time will tell if he will be great. No \"expert\" is going to change my view of that. Look, I\'m no genius. I\'m wrong all the time. I wish I had it all figure out. I\'d be in Vegas bettin\' the house. As far as puttin\' words in your mouth? I only said what you have said in the past. You put words in my mouth ALL the time. Remember? \"Penalties are worse than turnovers?\" I don\'t get upset about it. I just tell ya I didn\'t say that. It\'s no shame in being wrong about the NFL, WhoDat. The \"experts\" are wrong just as much as you and I. Really, this is all B&B\'s fault. I bet the little ****** is sitting there eatin\' popcorn waiting on the fireworks :P Anyway, I didn\'t mean to insult you. [Edited on 20/5/2004 by GumboBC]
GumboBC Banned Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 2,616

05-20-2004, 05:17 PM	#37
GumboBC Banned Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 2,616	A theory on Brooks WhoDat -- Here\'s a little info on Bill Walsh\'s track recored with QB\'s. Not exactly genius. Walsh has seen bits and pieces of Joe in the following people: Rick Mirer (dubbed \"the next Joe\" by Walsh prior to the 1993 NFL draft); Steve Stenstrom (Walsh mistakenly referred to Stenstrom as \"Joe\" during an interview in his second coaching stint at Stanford); Jake Plummer Jeff Garcia and now apparently Dick Vermeil. Update: Walsh is backpedaling so much on the Druckenmiller issue. And what of the infamous USA Today quote, in which Walsh alleged that Druck was at the top of the class? In case you\'ve forgotten, we\'ll refresh your memory: \"He can really throw the football,\" Walsh told USA Today in 1997, referring to Druck. \"He\'s got a great arm, comparable to Drew Bledsoe and some of the best arms in the NFL, and he seems to have good command of what he\'s doing. I didn\'t see anybody in his category.\" Sounds like an endorsement of Druck to us. Yet, now Walsh is backpedaling on that quote: \"If I did (say it) it was ... probably out of a (scout) book,\" Walsh said. \"They say, \'Who are the top quarterbacks?\' And I\'m thinking, \'Now, how do I get off the phone here? Just a minute, let me think about it.\' I\'d never seen Jim play.\" So there you have it. According to Walsh, he\'s not even responsible for his own opinion -- kinda like Charles Barkley claiming that he was misquoted in his own autobiography. It wasn\'t that Walsh was high on Druck; it was just that some pesky reporter wanted an opinion, so Walsh referred to a scout book and authoritatively passed off the opinion of the book as his own. Walsh\'s former co-conspirator, Dwight Clark, provides the evidence to impeach Walsh\'s latest statements. Now mangling the roster of the Cleveland Browns, Clark claims that Walsh was far from being an innocent bystander as the Niners nabbed Druckenmiller in the \'97 draft. \"I was in those meetings; I heard Bill say (Druckenmiller) was the most talented quarterback in the draft and that Plummer fit the (49ers\') offense better,\" Clark told the Contra Costa Times. \"I was there; I know what was said. Bill never said which one he would pick. He just made that statement and it was really up to us.\" According to Clark, then, Walsh did see Plummer as the better fit for the Niners\' rinky-dink West Coast Offense, but he also touted Druck as a better QB, and didn\'t go on record as to which QB San Francisco should take. Two years later, Plummer is a rising star, Druck is a laughingstock, and Walsh wants people to think that he stood squarely behind Plummer the whole time. Genius, isn\'t it? Apparently, Rams coach Dick Vermeil kinda, but not really, reminded Walsh of Joe. It seems that among the few things Walsh is able to clearly remember is the play of Vermeil, who was a quarterback for San Jose State in the 1950s, when Walsh was a graduate assistant there. According to Walsh, the young Vermeil \"had tremendous energy and was really competitive ... He came in the first year, and I think he might have been a backup. But he had a really solid career as a quarterback and was smallish as you know.\" Oh, it doesn\'t end there. \"There was some Montana in him,\" Walsh continued. \"I just don\'t think the arms and legs were long enough. He had everything else.\" Read all of it. Quite interesting... http://www.49erhaters.com/revisionist.html
GumboBC Banned Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 2,616

05-20-2004, 07:46 PM	#38
kenpersons Registered Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 92	A theory on Brooks \"Don\'t think, just throw\" is not the advice Brooks needs. Name one Hall of Fame quarterback who got there using this approach. I do not pose that he should use this philosophy throughout the season. I simply recognize the basic philosophical step it represents in solving the problem. Is it the only step? Nope. Is it a beginning? Very much so. Equally important is the trust. I can\'t help but wonder if his desire to make big plays takes away from his ability to make the play that is available. Whether he\'s waiting for a deep shot to develope or trying to find Joe Horn, it would be better to scatter the rock and move the sticks. \"Taking what the defense gives you\" as it were. That said, there is a time to take it from the defense as if it were lunch money. However, becoming a more consistant, accurate, and turnover free quarterback will come from spreading the ball around to open targets instead of trying to get too much done in a hurry.
kenpersons Registered Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 92	It\'s not a question of whether or not the Saints will win the Super Bowl this year. It\'s a question of which Saint will be the MVP of the game. What do you mean I\'m not supposed to snort the granola?

05-20-2004, 10:02 PM	#39
JKool 1000 Posts + Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Madison, WI Posts: 2,423	A theory on Brooks Ok, KP, when do you propose Brooks implement the \"just throw strategy\"? In the preseason (he\'s unlikely to see much playing time there), in practice (a lot of good it\'ll do him then), in the first 8 games of the regular season (yikes)? I can see it is your view that the the \"just throw strategy\" plays SOME role in correcting for Brooks\' problems, but it just seems to me that what role it plays is either small, insignificant, or inappropriate (depending on when and how it is implemented).

05-20-2004, 10:03 PM	#40
JKool 1000 Posts + Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Madison, WI Posts: 2,423	A theory on Brooks PS - I don\'t know how many of you played sand-lot ball once you\'d stopped playing college or junior (or high school), but I have. If a player the calibre of Brooks had been out there in the sand-lot, I would have had to have taken my ball and go home - he would have eaten us alive! I understand it is just a way of saying that \"he\'s not that great\", but \'common, he\'s a starter in the NFL for crying out loud (and would be on several teams - not just ours).