MLB - Jeremiah Trotter a Saint? John Clayton says....
 

I'm not much on rumors, but.....................

John Clayton of ESPN reported this morning that he looks for the Saints to go after MLB - Jeremiah Trotter after he is released by the Redskins.

Maybe Clayton is just looking at the cap space we have and the need at linebacker we have, but John Clayton is ONE of the MOST CREDIBLE sources out there.

Look out!! :P


[Edited on 29/5/2004 by GumboBC]

MLB - Jeremiah Trotter a Saint? John Clayton says....
 

Do you guys think that Watson is doing as good as Haslet plays it up to be, or could it be one of those smoke screens to get Trotter. I have no idea but I promise you guys ill figure it out on the first.

MLB - Jeremiah Trotter a Saint? John Clayton says....
 

I have no idea if Watson is doing good or bad BUT after reading several old articles on Trotter, Haslett would be lacking if he didn\'t try for this solid veteran who has proven hisself on two other teams.

In one of the articles he was described as the soul of the team\'s aggressiveness (Philly\'s or Redskins, I can\'t remember which).

Seems like a good idea to try to bring him in.

However, he did have a contract-issue and wanted to be paid extremely well.

Does anyone know how our cap room is shaping up?

MLB - Jeremiah Trotter a Saint? John Clayton says....
 

I\'m curious about why we\'d still be interested in Trotter. We already have 3 MLB\'s vying for the spot.

Could it be that with Cie Grant and Courtney Watson\'s speed, knowledge and versatility that Haz may go with Trotter at MLB, Watson at SLB and Grant at WLB?

I\'ve heard the Saints are extremely impressed with how fast Watson is picking up our system and is already exhibiting the leadership qualities that unit has needed for several years now.

I do feel that Hodge and Allen basically have 2004 to prove themselves or they\'re gone. Personally I\'d give Hodge 2004 and Allen 2005 to prove their worth. They are moving Allen to the SLB position so I\'d cut him a little slack, but only a little.

MLB - Jeremiah Trotter a Saint? John Clayton says....
 

I agree I see us having no interest in him at this point... we have plenty of bodies and talent.

MLB - Jeremiah Trotter a Saint? John Clayton says....
 

Plenty of bodies but no proven above-average starter....

MLB - Jeremiah Trotter a Saint? John Clayton says....
 

we got talent just we need to play them... Grant. Trotter isn\'t going to be the answer.

MLB - Jeremiah Trotter a Saint? John Clayton says....
 

That\'s kinda like saying we have plenty of bodies at the corner back spot, and we just need to play them.

I would rather have a solid proven above average veteran competeing for the job.

MLB - Jeremiah Trotter a Saint? John Clayton says....
 

its also about money... You don\'t know what you have unless you play the players. If you only played above average veterans, you would run out of players when they all retired. Can\'t play rookie\'s or 1-2-3 year players can we, that makes no sense.

MLB - Jeremiah Trotter a Saint? John Clayton says....
 

As of Friday morning, there was $155.045 million in aggregate salary cap room left in the league, an average of $4.845 million per franchise. But the average is bolstered by eight teams that each have more than $7 million of available space. Those teams are: New Orleans ($11.606 million), Philadelphia ($10.346 million), Dallas ($10.251 million), New York Giants ($8.675 million), Detroit ($7.995 million), Jacksonville ($7.859 million), Arizona ($7.764 million) and San Diego ($7.023 million).

MLB - Jeremiah Trotter a Saint? John Clayton says....
 

Vikes are also interested in Trotter to play the SLB for them.
I think thats probably where we\'d play him also.

SPEED KILLS

SLB-Trotter
MLB-Watson
WLB-Grant

It couldn\'t be worse than 2003, could it?

MLB - Jeremiah Trotter a Saint? John Clayton says....
 

I was under the assumption that he would be a middle LB. I was also under the assumption that the middle LB is sort of like the QB of the defense.... someone who calls assignments depending what the offense shows. I would rather have a solid veteran in that position than a rookie. Let him play and mature and learn how to fill the shoes under the tutalage of a veteran seems to be a prudent move. Also, Trotter could actually be *better*.

MLB - Jeremiah Trotter a Saint? John Clayton says....
 

Adding Trotter isn\'t a bad idea considering the cap space that we still have available. Realistically it looks like we COULD sign McKenzie AND Trotter and still have room. Not saying that will happen....

I like Trotter. You cannot have too many serious talent veterans on your team. And no Danno, it CANNOT be worse that last year.

MLB - Jeremiah Trotter a Saint? John Clayton says....
 

I think Trotter and his veteran experience would be a plus......maybe he could really bolster an area of weakness.....


Last year.....uh Ruff didn\'t turn out to be the second coming ....did he?

MLB - Jeremiah Trotter a Saint? John Clayton says....
 

nope he sure didn\'t.

MLB - Jeremiah Trotter a Saint? John Clayton says....
 

Did anyone really honestly believe Ruff to be the second coming? He\'s a career back-up, but nary a lick of smarts. If you\'re gonna play LB dumb in the NFL, you\'d better have incredible instincts, e.g. LaVar Arrington.

I love my Tigers, but Trev Faulk showed that to be true last year...

MLB - Jeremiah Trotter a Saint? John Clayton says....
 

I remember a person or two around this board talking about how the Saints made all the moves they needed to last off-season. Some of us were upset with signings like Ruff and Ambrose, but others were sure all the holes had been filled. Go back one year on the board and take a look see. It\'s interesting.

MLB - Jeremiah Trotter a Saint? John Clayton says....
 

I\'ll be the first to admit that I thought Ruff was a decent deal for us last year.....until I saw the guy play. Then again, the Saints got him cheap, so you get what you pay for. This guy should be reserved for the special teams. Hopefully we\'ll see what the coaches are praising Cie Grant and Courtney Watson for on the field this year. This could be the future of the MLB position for New Orleans. Fresh, young legs with an appetite and desire to bust people\'s chops. Hopefully they turn out to be a Vaughn Johnson/Sam Mills reincarnate and not be some chumps like some who\'ve followed them. I just don\'t see the Saints going after Trotter.

MLB - Jeremiah Trotter a Saint? John Clayton says....
 

You know what, WhoDat? We have basically the same team this year as we had last year. The only players that we picked up that will be starting is Brian Young and maybe Jason Craft.

I think you picked THIS team to win the division and go to the playoffs this year?? Intresting that you think that basically the same team from last year will do so well.

MLB - Jeremiah Trotter a Saint? John Clayton says....
 

I did NOT pick this year\'s team to win the division. Nope.

I have been on the fence about the playoffs, and Billy, if you read my posts you\'d see that I said the WORST thing possible for the Saints is for them to slide into the playoffs at 9-7 (which they will probably do). Why? B/c the playoffs this year and we\'ll have to deal with Haslett for another three and that just means more mediocrity.

Now, I didn\'t mention any names in my post - it is telling that you are touchy about it. Either you\'re very self-centered or you were one of those people singing Ruff\'s (and this team\'s) praise last year. I wonder which it could be. ;)

Finally, say what you will Billy, but last year I had questions about our LBs and secondary. This year, I have questions about our LBs and secondary.

Will Tbuck be the guy we pay him to be or just a tackle-missing highlight reel again?
Is Mitchell healthy?
Can Bellamy play that well again or was last year a fluke?
Do we have enough depth at safety?
Does Fred Thomas have enough left - especially against the ever-larger and faster WRs?
Is Craft worthy of starting or just another might be?
What happens if one of them gets hurt? Is Ambrose up to the task?
Will Grant or Watson emerge as a capable starting NFL MLB?
Who is going to play outside?
Does Rodgers have enough left to keep playing at even an average level?
Will Allen or Hodge ever play up to expectations?
Can Howard stay healthy?
Can Sully slim down and buck up or was he a 2 first rounder bust?
Is Young disruptive or just undersized?


Want more?

MLB - Jeremiah Trotter a Saint? John Clayton says....
 

WhoDat --

Bottom line is you picked the Saints to go to the playoffs this year. It\'s in one of your posts. I\'m sure somebody remembers you saying it.

This is basically the same team we had last year. Except last year here is the difference in our starters.

1. Grady Jackon = Brian Young

2. Dale Carter = Jason Craft

Besides those two players we will be playing with the same starters that were on our team last year.

I just find it interesting that you picke this team to go to the playoffs this year and last year you saw things so differently.

Now, to be fair, I have some BIG concerns about this team this year. Haslett has really made me question his ability. Also, I\'ll go on record right now and say I was wrong about some of the players we picked up last year. I\'m sure I\'ll be wrong about some in the future... ;)

MLB - Jeremiah Trotter a Saint? John Clayton says....
 

I hope Mitchell, Cie Grant, Watson, or Allen don\'t hear that, otherwise they may get discouraged and and take up insurance sales.

MLB - Jeremiah Trotter a Saint? John Clayton says....
 

Mitchell, Grant and Allen were on our team last year. I\'m made my prediction for last year based on who was on the team last year. I had no way to know we would suffer all the injuries.

WhoDat sees this team MUCH differently this year and all I\'m saying is we have basically the same team as last year.

MLB - Jeremiah Trotter a Saint? John Clayton says....
 

Not talking about your prediction, I\'m talking about what I quoted from your post, in my previous post.

MLB - Jeremiah Trotter a Saint? John Clayton says....
 

Okay. Mitchell was the starter last year. And no one has won the starting MLB spot. So, my statement is correct.... ;)

MLB - Jeremiah Trotter a Saint? John Clayton says....
 

Can you post his stats from last year, I can\'t find it on NFL.com.

MLB - Jeremiah Trotter a Saint? John Clayton says....
 

Let\'s put this WHOLE thing in context. Myself and WhoDat were talking about predictions that were made in the OFF SEASON. At that time Mel Mitchell was named the STARTING safety.

Some folks just like to argue just to be arguing. Nah, I\'m sure that doesn\'t go on here.. :P

MLB - Jeremiah Trotter a Saint? John Clayton says....
 

If WhoDat made the same statement, I\'d be calling him to the floor too.

When I see

...I can\'t keep my mouth shut, because you are stating something as being factual, when you don\'t know anymore as to who will be the true starters at the beginning of the season than I do. Mitchell never started a regular season game last year, so he had zero impact on whether or not we were a good team last year.
You\'re bringing into question why WhoDat picked us to make the playoffs this coming year vs. last year, and you\'re basing this on how few starters we\'ll have turn over on defense, when in fact, the defense will see alot more turnover than you are consenting to. Do I know this for a fact? No, but then, I didn\'t come on the site and claim it to be factual either. See what I mean? ;)

MLB - Jeremiah Trotter a Saint? John Clayton says....
 

Basically, the only different starters we will have on defense is at.

1. Cornerback
2. MLB
3. DT

That\'s it. Is it factual? No. Is it likely? Yes.

Also, none of the guys that MIGHT be starters this year are no more proven that what we had last year.

As a matter of FACT, we had some of these same guys on our team last year that were PROJECTED starters.

Like I said, I find it interesting that WhoDat sees this team differently this year when we didn\'t pick up any of those PROVEN players that he likes so much.

[Edited on 3/6/2004 by GumboBC]

MLB - Jeremiah Trotter a Saint? John Clayton says....
 

I don\'t know that he see\'s it so much differently. I don\'t think he would ever be so positive as to assume we\'d win the division (I don\'t remember seeing him type that), but he did say 9-7...sneak into the playoffs...and how frustrating that would be cause it\'d buy Haz another year.

Did I just defend Whodat? Looks like I\'m drinkin\' too much these days!

:P

MLB - Jeremiah Trotter a Saint? John Clayton says....
 

well, since we\'re into predictions around here...

I think our safety play will be much improved this year. Tebucky tried to do too much last year and misjudged way too many plays on the Dome turf. He\'ll settle in with Mitchell or Bellamy and be more effective this year. I also expect Haslett to use him in some CB situations against some of our more freakishly-sized WR opponents, e.g. T.O., Moss and use Bellamy as FS with Mel at SS

Yes. He\'ll be fine. If he gets injured this year, it won\'t be because of his knee. His knee should be 100% going into Summer.

Fluke I think. I\'d love to say it was real, but he stunk it up for so long at his \"natural\" FS position. I think his numbers looked better because more tackle opportunities were coming his way - see last year\'s Run D numbers for evidence.

With zero or one major injuries, yes. Two plus and we\'re hosed. Gleason is a special teams animal, but a downfield landmine.

He\'s got gas in the tank and the heart of a lion, but he can\'t give up 6-8 inches of height and still make the plays we need. See my above Tebucky comments for what I think Haslett may try in these situations.

Well, he\'s faster than Ambrose, but it remains to see what his instincts will be. Plus he\'s only an inch taller than Freddie T. I think \"might be\" will be his eventual category.

As a nickle back, yes. As a starting corner, nope. If Craft or Fred go down and we don\'t make a major personnel move, start counting on dem Tigers for post-season fun.

This may be the big question for our D. If one of them does (and I think both of them eventually will) we will see major improvement. If not, prepare to watch lots of footage of Ruff and D. Smith jogging up to help Tebucky/Fred/Mel out of tackle piles.

Sedrick Hodge at SLB. I don\'t think he\'s big enough, and he\'s probably better suited at WLB, but Haz seems hell-bent on putting him on the strong side. I think Cie Grant and Watson stand a real chance of snookering the WLB spot away from Rodgers (whoever doesn\'t win the MLB that is).

No. Too old, too slow.

I think so with Hodge. I think he\'d do better at WLB where he can run guys down from behind and blind-side rush, a-la LT, but I think if he continues to bulk up and adds the strength to throw off the OL in the second-tier, he\'ll give us what we drafted him for. Allen, on the other hand, is a bust. Pure and simple.

Yes. Last year\'s injury was a total fluke deal.

He\'d better slim down, or he\'ll watch Leslie, Kenny Smith, Young and the 2 LSU boys take his snaps. I often question our personnel logic, but I like the willingness to jettison dead weight (no pun intended).

I think he can be disruptive enough. He\'ll do o.k. for a year or two, but in the larger plan, he\'s a stop gap and not the eventual answer.

---------------------------------------------------------------

Well, that\'s it for now. So sayeth SaintShreve...

MLB - Jeremiah Trotter a Saint? John Clayton says....
 

The topic still is if the Saints should go after Trotter, right? I\'m all for it. Like Bise I would rather see a veteran at the MLB spot.
If the coaches were NOT saying how well Watson and Grant look in practice, that would really surprise me. We will know when we see them on the field. Basically starting two rookies as linebackers is risky. If nothing else Trotter would serve as an insurance.

Now to the other subject at hand (just weighing in with my opinion): Why I am more optimistic now than I was in June 2003:
1. A relatively young team has matured one year
2. Defensive players know their teammates
3. New defensive line coach
4. McCarthy may have learned something from last season
5. No important free agent/retirement losses, added some interesting players through the draft

MLB - Jeremiah Trotter a Saint? John Clayton says....
 

Cie Grant\'s no rookie. He\'s technically a \"veteran\" now

MLB - Jeremiah Trotter a Saint? John Clayton says....
 

saintfan -- Never doubt me. ;) When I tell you WhoDat picked us to win the division, you can take it to the bank. If I tell you a flea can pull a wagon, hitch him up... :P

I enter into evidence:



[Edited on 4/6/2004 by GumboBC]

MLB - Jeremiah Trotter a Saint? John Clayton says....
 

I agree with #1 and #2. And I don\'t think Clancy was the problem last year as much as Big Wiggle\'s Wings and K-Paul\'s for # 3. I hope McCarthy learned (dear Lord, please let him learn). And I think we may find Terrell Smith a bigger loss than you think. Gash is a solid guy, but he\'s no spring chicken. T. Smith canceled a lot of OL mistakes last year but bustin\' heads.

All in all, I agree with you though. We should do better, but should and will get along as well as Kobe and Shaq.


For what it\'s worth, I\'d grab Trotter, put him in the middle and Grant/Watson at WLB.

MLB - Jeremiah Trotter a Saint? John Clayton says....
 

In defense of WhoDat ...
\"Oh, he\'s such an optimist right now, he has turned 180 degrees from the same time last season, now he\'s even predicting a winning season at 9-7. Unbelievable, is that still the same WhoDat we know?\"
Perception, all about perception ...
WhoDat, May 30th 2003 :
\"Sorry guys, call me the pessimist but I say 9-7\"

MLB - Jeremiah Trotter a Saint? John Clayton says....
 

LMAO :P Too funny.

Now I admit, WhoDat isn\'t exactly what I\'d call an optimist!! :P He\'s probably one of the guys that\'s got a basement full of bottled water and canned goods and is waiting on the world to come and end :P :P

But, never the less. He said we would win the NFC South. From WhoDat, that\'s optimisim folks. I\'m sure he just forgot he said it. Probably worried about paying off his bookie... :D



[Edited on 3/6/2004 by GumboBC]

[Edited on 4/6/2004 by GumboBC]

MLB - Jeremiah Trotter a Saint? John Clayton says....
 

Billy, Billy, Billy.

You got called out again, and again you\'re wrong. It\'s funny, it just keeps happening and you can\'t see it.

We very well may have a different STARTER at safety, corner, two linebacker positions, and DT. That\'s FIVE positions. Almost half. Still, my prediction was 8-8 or 9-7. I will admit that I never settled on either. So this year, when I say 9-7, I guess that I don\'t view this team so differently.

Now Billy, if you want to think I believe this team will win the division b/c of one post when I was trying to be a little optimistic, go right ahead. Shall I dig up posts when you said that Haslett deserves to be fired and Brooks deserves to be benched? They DO exist. I will be happy to find them.

In any case, your style of argument remains:
1. Whodat thinks things will be much different with the SAME team. Why?
2. Whodat predicted 9-7 last year and 9-7 this year... see that different... er... right?

So which is it Billy? Is the \"perception\" of me wrong? Or am I so up on what equates to the same team?


My tune hasn\'t changed Billy. It\'s been the same for a while. This team is way too talented not to be in the playoffs. The Saints almost have the players in place to make a SB run. They generally need upgrades at a few key spots. Year in and year out the coaches address those position INADEQUATELY (i.e. with the wrong players). Further, this team continues to underachieve, mainly b/c Haslett is outcoached time and again. They are talented but undisciplined and constantly underachieve.

I stand behind that view. Maybe they win the SB this season and Haslett and some key players prove me totally wrong. OK. Until that time, I stick by my guns.

Shall we discuss how your opinion has changed over the last year or so? We\'re going 13-3, Haslett deserves to get fired, we\'ll be 10-6 and make the playoffs. The model of consistency - no wonder you like AB so much.

MLB - Jeremiah Trotter a Saint? John Clayton says....
 

PS - Saintfan - WHAT? Amazing. Keep the WhoTang flowing my friend. The post was dually noted... ;)

MLB - Jeremiah Trotter a Saint? John Clayton says....
 

I\'m just trying to build up points for later use. Don\'t get too excited. LMAO