Intangibles and "it" ???

WhoDat · 06-25-2004, 03:49 PM

Yeah, those QB\'s and their team go there, but it was for other reasons than their QB.

Billy, this is exactly my point. For whatever reason, the Super Stars aren\'t making it all the way anymore. The point I was originally making with all this, way back when, is give me a team with great skill players (perimeter or whatever you want to call them) and a good defense with an average QB rather than a team with a great QB and lesser supporting cast.

Now you are right in that the Indys and the Phillys are consistently good. Me, I\'ll take 3 years of 8-8 and 1 Super Bowl over 4 straight years of playoffs. That\'s personal opinion. You want good teams that are never great that\'s fine. I\'ll take 3 years of average for one great.

The NFL that Marino and Montana and Kelly and Aikman played in is no more. Teams are doing it with defense, speed, and a game manager at QB (not a play-maker at QB).

GumboBC · 06-25-2004, 04:08 PM

WhoDat --

I can\'t argue that teams haven\'t gone to the superbowl using the exact formula you are speaking of. Because they clearly have made superbowl apperances.

But, here\'s the problem:

Super bowl Winners and Loser for past 5 years:
1. Tom Brady. -2003 - Jake Delhomme
2. Brad Johnson.- 2002 - Rich Gannon
3. Tom Brady -2001 - Kurt Warner
4. Tent Dilfer -2000 - Kerry Collins
5. Kurt Warner -1999 - Steve McNair

Here\'s your arguement for the lesser QB\'s that have made it to the superbowl:
1. Jake Delhomme.
2. Trent Dilfer.

Now here\'s who I have.

1. Tom Brady
2. Tom Brady
3. Kurt Warner
4. Kurt Warner
5. Steve McNair
6 Rich Gannon
7. Kerry Collins

My list is full of Pro Bowl QB\'s that made it to the super bowl

I just don\'t see your argument. We can argue about this and that, but there is no doubt that my list shows more probowl QB that have gone to the superbowl than your \"lesser\" QB\'s.

WhoDat · 06-25-2004, 04:25 PM

Wait a second - you\'re telling me Brady is more than average and efficient? Gannon?!?!? Collins??? Brad Johnson??? Even Warner is iffy for me. I think he is a guy whose value was greatly inflated by the fact that he was surrounded by the best RB in the league, the best WR corp in the league, a top 5 or 10 TE and an offensive Mastermind at coach. Look at him now.

But I\'ll give you Warner and McNair as truly top flight QBs.

If you classify Brady, Gannon, Collins, or Johnson as super stars than just go ahead and add Delhomme to that list.

GumboBC · 06-25-2004, 04:33 PM

WhoDat,

This is laughable.

So, you don\'t consider Tom Brady a super star QB, huh?

Let\'s see, your criteria for a super star QB consists of:

1. Leadership
2. Intangibles
3. Efficient.
4. \"it\"
5. High completion percentage.
6 Good TD to Int ratio
7. Winning a super bowl.

Did I leave anything out?

But let\'s look at his stats because ALL your other criteria is CLEARLY met.

2001 New England Patriots 15 14 413 264 63.9 2843 6.88 91 18 12 41/216 32 6 86.5
2002 New England Patriots 16 16 601 373 62.1 3764 6.26 49 28 14 31/190 37 3 85.7
2003 New England Patriots 16 16 527 317 60.2 3620 6.87 82 23 12 32/219 44 8 85.9

What the heck is Brady going to have to do to be a super star QB in your mind WhoDat. Bench press 800lbs. Jump over tall buildings? What?

WhoDat · 06-25-2004, 04:57 PM

That\'s not my criteria for a super star QB. Those are my criteria for an efficient if unimpressive QB.

Super Stars, to me, are athletically gifted more so than eighty or ninety percent of the rest of the QBs in the league at least and can carry a team on their back. But hey, go ahead and put words in my mouth and misinterpret my comments. It\'s not new.

GumboBC · 06-25-2004, 05:01 PM

That\'s not my criteria for a super star QB. Those are my criteria for an efficient if unimpressive QB.

Super Stars, to me, are athletically gifted more so than eighty or ninety percent of the rest of the QBs in the league at least and can carry a team on their back. But hey, go ahead and put words in my mouth and misinterpret my comments. It\'s not new.

Oh, I think you are telling me that Mike Vick and Donavan McNabb are the only \"super star\" QB\'s in the league. I gotcha. Thanks for clearing that up WhoDat. Be careful what you post in the future. I\'ve got this thread on file and I will not be putting words in your mouth. I\'ll just use your EXACT words...

Peyton Manning CLEARLY isn\'t a super star QB, right? Joe Montana wasn\'t either, I suppose? Gotcha.

WhoDat · 06-25-2004, 05:08 PM

A. those aren\'t my only criteria. Super Star QBs have everything you named IN ADDITION to athleticism.

And yes, that list is close. To say Peyton isn\'t physically gifted seems pretty dumb to me.

Vick, Manning, Culpepper, McNabb (maybe if his play returns to form). McNair is close b/c of his ablity to play so well with injuries. Bledsoe has been there, don\'t know if he still is.

GumboBC · 06-25-2004, 05:16 PM

Ooooooooooooooooo K :P

06-25-2004, 03:49 PM	#41
WhoDat 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,631	Intangibles and "it" ??? Yeah, those QB\'s and their team go there, but it was for other reasons than their QB. Billy, this is exactly my point. For whatever reason, the Super Stars aren\'t making it all the way anymore. The point I was originally making with all this, way back when, is give me a team with great skill players (perimeter or whatever you want to call them) and a good defense with an average QB rather than a team with a great QB and lesser supporting cast. Now you are right in that the Indys and the Phillys are consistently good. Me, I\'ll take 3 years of 8-8 and 1 Super Bowl over 4 straight years of playoffs. That\'s personal opinion. You want good teams that are never great that\'s fine. I\'ll take 3 years of average for one great. The NFL that Marino and Montana and Kelly and Aikman played in is no more. Teams are doing it with defense, speed, and a game manager at QB (not a play-maker at QB).
WhoDat 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,631	\"Excuses, excuses, excuses. ThatÃ¢Â€Â™s all anyone ever makes for the New Orleans SaintsÃ¢Â€Â™ organization.\" - Eric Narcisse \"Being a Saints fan is almost like being addicted to crack,\" he said.[i]\"You know you should stop, but you just can\'t.\"

06-25-2004, 04:08 PM	#42
GumboBC Banned Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 2,616	Intangibles and "it" ??? WhoDat -- I can\'t argue that teams haven\'t gone to the superbowl using the exact formula you are speaking of. Because they clearly have made superbowl apperances. But, here\'s the problem: Super bowl Winners and Loser for past 5 years: 1. Tom Brady. -2003 - Jake Delhomme 2. Brad Johnson.- 2002 - Rich Gannon 3. Tom Brady -2001 - Kurt Warner 4. Tent Dilfer -2000 - Kerry Collins 5. Kurt Warner -1999 - Steve McNair Here\'s your arguement for the lesser QB\'s that have made it to the superbowl: 1. Jake Delhomme. 2. Trent Dilfer. Now here\'s who I have. 1. Tom Brady 2. Tom Brady 3. Kurt Warner 4. Kurt Warner 5. Steve McNair 6 Rich Gannon 7. Kerry Collins My list is full of Pro Bowl QB\'s that made it to the super bowl I just don\'t see your argument. We can argue about this and that, but there is no doubt that my list shows more probowl QB that have gone to the superbowl than your \"lesser\" QB\'s.
GumboBC Banned Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 2,616

06-25-2004, 04:25 PM	#43
WhoDat 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,631	Intangibles and "it" ??? Wait a second - you\'re telling me Brady is more than average and efficient? Gannon?!?!? Collins??? Brad Johnson??? Even Warner is iffy for me. I think he is a guy whose value was greatly inflated by the fact that he was surrounded by the best RB in the league, the best WR corp in the league, a top 5 or 10 TE and an offensive Mastermind at coach. Look at him now. But I\'ll give you Warner and McNair as truly top flight QBs. If you classify Brady, Gannon, Collins, or Johnson as super stars than just go ahead and add Delhomme to that list.
WhoDat 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,631	\"Excuses, excuses, excuses. ThatÃ¢Â€Â™s all anyone ever makes for the New Orleans SaintsÃ¢Â€Â™ organization.\" - Eric Narcisse \"Being a Saints fan is almost like being addicted to crack,\" he said.[i]\"You know you should stop, but you just can\'t.\"

06-25-2004, 04:33 PM	#44
GumboBC Banned Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 2,616	Intangibles and "it" ??? WhoDat, This is laughable. So, you don\'t consider Tom Brady a super star QB, huh? Let\'s see, your criteria for a super star QB consists of: 1. Leadership 2. Intangibles 3. Efficient. 4. \"it\" 5. High completion percentage. 6 Good TD to Int ratio 7. Winning a super bowl. Did I leave anything out? But let\'s look at his stats because ALL your other criteria is CLEARLY met. 2001 New England Patriots 15 14 413 264 63.9 2843 6.88 91 18 12 41/216 32 6 86.5 2002 New England Patriots 16 16 601 373 62.1 3764 6.26 49 28 14 31/190 37 3 85.7 2003 New England Patriots 16 16 527 317 60.2 3620 6.87 82 23 12 32/219 44 8 85.9 What the heck is Brady going to have to do to be a super star QB in your mind WhoDat. Bench press 800lbs. Jump over tall buildings? What?
GumboBC Banned Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 2,616

06-25-2004, 04:57 PM	#45
WhoDat 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,631	Intangibles and "it" ??? That\'s not my criteria for a super star QB. Those are my criteria for an efficient if unimpressive QB. Super Stars, to me, are athletically gifted more so than eighty or ninety percent of the rest of the QBs in the league at least and can carry a team on their back. But hey, go ahead and put words in my mouth and misinterpret my comments. It\'s not new.
WhoDat 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,631

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06-25-2004, 05:01 PM	#46
GumboBC Banned Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 2,616	Intangibles and "it" ??? That\'s not my criteria for a super star QB. Those are my criteria for an efficient if unimpressive QB. Super Stars, to me, are athletically gifted more so than eighty or ninety percent of the rest of the QBs in the league at least and can carry a team on their back. But hey, go ahead and put words in my mouth and misinterpret my comments. It\'s not new. Oh, I think you are telling me that Mike Vick and Donavan McNabb are the only \"super star\" QB\'s in the league. I gotcha. Thanks for clearing that up WhoDat. Be careful what you post in the future. I\'ve got this thread on file and I will not be putting words in your mouth. I\'ll just use your EXACT words... Peyton Manning CLEARLY isn\'t a super star QB, right? Joe Montana wasn\'t either, I suppose? Gotcha.
GumboBC Banned Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 2,616

06-25-2004, 05:08 PM	#47
WhoDat 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,631	Intangibles and "it" ??? A. those aren\'t my only criteria. Super Star QBs have everything you named IN ADDITION to athleticism. And yes, that list is close. To say Peyton isn\'t physically gifted seems pretty dumb to me. Vick, Manning, Culpepper, McNabb (maybe if his play returns to form). McNair is close b/c of his ablity to play so well with injuries. Bledsoe has been there, don\'t know if he still is.
WhoDat 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,631

06-25-2004, 05:16 PM	#48
GumboBC Banned Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 2,616	Intangibles and "it" ??? Ooooooooooooooooo K :P
GumboBC Banned Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 2,616