Judge calls BS on Goodell

TXGSP · 08-16-2012, 11:10 AM

Regardless of the evidence.... The league provided some information on this themselves...on their own website

Find this article at:
NFL denies NFLPA request for delay of penalties in Saints case - NFL.com

NFL denies NFLPA request for delay of penalties in Saints case
NFL.com Wire Reports
Published: March 16, 2012 at 02:56 a.m.
Updated: March 16, 2012 at 08:43 a.m.

The NFL responded to a request by the NFL Players Association to conduct its own investigation into the New Orleans Saints' pay-for-performance scandal, SI.com reported Thursday.

The league told the union that it was free to question any current or former Saints officials about the matter, but that it would not delay announcing its own discipline. That announcement is expected to come soon.

Union officials contend they didn't learn of the investigation until shortly before the results were announced, at which point they told the league they wanted to conduct their own investigation.

"We have given your requests careful consideration, and have concluded that there is no basis for delaying the imposition of any discipline in this matter, and particularly not as it may apply to a club or any non-player employee of a club," NFL attorney Jeff Pash wrote in the letter to union general counsel Richard Berthelsen on Wednesday. "Any disciplinary action affecting any player would be imposed only in a manner consistent with our Collective Bargaining Agreement. As you know, the sole authority to investigate and impose discipline in this matter rests with the Commissioner."

Pash also wrote that team officials were free to speak with union investigators, but that the league "will neither compel them to do so, nor direct them to refrain from doing so."

The NFL says the Saints ran a program that gave thousands of dollars in payoffs to players for hits that knocked opponents out of games. The NFL said the amounts reached their peak in 2009, the season the Saints won the Super Bowl. Former Saints assistant coach Gregg Williams, now defensive coordinator of the Rams, has admitted to and apologized for running the program.

The Associated Press contributed to this story.

If the League denied the request to delay any penalties and reported it on March 16. The Saints, Loomis, and coaches' penatlies were handed out Mar 21, so why did they wait until May 02 to hand out those penalties after denying the request for delay.

Looks like this is getting interesting...

League story - Player suspensions dated May 02
Jonathan Vilma among four Saints suspended in 'bounty' case - NFL.com

NonieT · 08-16-2012, 11:19 AM

Originally Posted by TXGSP

Regardless of the evidence.... The league provided some information on this themselves...on their own website

Find this article at:
NFL denies NFLPA request for delay of penalties in Saints case - NFL.com

NFL denies NFLPA request for delay of penalties in Saints caseNFL.com Wire Reports
Published: March 16, 2012 at 02:56 a.m. Updated: March 16, 2012 at 08:43 a.m.

The NFL responded to a request by the NFL Players Association to conduct its own investigation into the New Orleans Saints' pay-for-performance scandal, SI.com reported Thursday.

The league told the union that it was free to question any current or former Saints officials about the matter, but that it would not delay announcing its own discipline. That announcement is expected to come soon.

Union officials contend they didn't learn of the investigation until shortly before the results were announced, at which point they told the league they wanted to conduct their own investigation.

"We have given your requests careful consideration, and have concluded that there is no basis for delaying the imposition of any discipline in this matter, and particularly not as it may apply to a club or any non-player employee of a club," NFL attorney Jeff Pash wrote in the letter to union general counsel Richard Berthelsen on Wednesday. "Any disciplinary action affecting any player would be imposed only in a manner consistent with our Collective Bargaining Agreement. As you know, the sole authority to investigate and impose discipline in this matter rests with the Commissioner."

Pash also wrote that team officials were free to speak with union investigators, but that the league "will neither compel them to do so, nor direct them to refrain from doing so."

The NFL says the Saints ran a program that gave thousands of dollars in payoffs to players for hits that knocked opponents out of games. The NFL said the amounts reached their peak in 2009, the season the Saints won the Super Bowl. Former Saints assistant coach Gregg Williams, now defensive coordinator of the Rams, has admitted to and apologized for running the program.

The Associated Press contributed to this story.

If the League denied the request to delay any penalties and reported it on March 16. The Saints, Loomis, and coaches' penatlies were handed out Mar 21, so why did they wait until May 02 to hand out those penalties after denying the request for delay.

Looks like this is getting interesting...

League story - Player suspensions dated May 02
Jonathan Vilma among four Saints suspended in 'bounty' case - NFL.com

From Saintsreport:

On April 23rd--a month later--in an interview with Rich Eisen on the NFLN, Goodell said this about player sanctions:

Quote:
I hope to reach those decisions very soon. We have been continuing our work. We have continued to talk to players and other people that can give us a perspective. Once we have got all the information and we feel that we are in a position to be able to issue the fairest and most thorough types of decisions, we will do that but I expect to do that soon because this is a big element to me ...

I am not necessarily looking for [the NFLPA's] recommendation on discipline. I am looking for their recommendation on what we do to continue to make our game safer and to get this type of activity out of the game and get back to the point where we have respect for each other and the game itself.

Halo · 08-16-2012, 12:39 PM

Originally Posted by x626xBlack

Speaking of discovery..... I still have a major issue with the NFLPA not subpoenaing Greg Williams, Roger Goodell, and all parties involved with the "supposed" infractions or the investigation.... So that they could get their own answers... Not getting their own evidence means they are constantly on the Defense instead of the offense... I have yet to see where the NFLPA has filed a motion to get the NFL to turn all 50k pages over.. They asked, but not legally.

NFL wins the Time of Possession battle.

We're not in discovery phase yet. That starts when the court accepts the case. They're still in hearings about whether to allow a court ordered injunction should be awarded to allow Vilma to play, and eventually whether the court accepts the case.

In this hearing phase you probably would not want to force a witness (Goodell or Gregg Williams) to go to court unless he or she has already agreed to testify. You want people to testify who support your position.

Dragging someone into court who doesn’t want to be there on your behalf could set the persons testimony against you. A hostile witness in a hearing like this can cause a lot of confusion and raise a lot of issues that muddy the original purpose of the hearing.

Hostile cross examination needs to be reserved for the actual court proceedings. In hearings, plaintiffs usually seek evidence needed from another source before getting a subpoena for a reluctant witness.

Remember, the "hearing" is not a trial. It's a time to make arguments on the merits of the case so the court will accept the case, and specifically on requests the plaintiff is making (in this case- injunction relief so Vilma can play until all the B.S. is proven to be a farce.)

TheOak · 08-16-2012, 01:22 PM

Originally Posted by Halo

We're not in discovery phase yet. That starts when the court accepts the case. They're still in hearings about whether to allow a court ordered injunction should be awarded to allow Vilma to play, and eventually whether the court accepts the case.

In this hearing phase you probably would not want to force a witness (Goodell or Gregg Williams) to go to court unless he or she has already agreed to testify. You want people to testify who support your position.

Dragging someone into court who doesn’t want to be there on your behalf could set the persons testimony against you. A hostile witness in a hearing like this can cause a lot of confusion and raise a lot of issues that muddy the original purpose of the hearing.

Hostile cross examination needs to be reserved for the actual court proceedings. In hearings, plaintiffs usually seek evidence needed from another source before getting a subpoena for a reluctant witness.

Remember, the "hearing" is not a trial. It's a time to make arguments on the merits of the case so the court will accept the case, and specifically on requests the plaintiff is making (in this case- injunction relief so Vilma can play until all the B.S. is proven to be a farce.)

I did not mean make them "testify", I meant make them show up for deposition. Casual format, questions by the NFLPA lawyers.. answers by the person deposed, all sworn, all recorded.

When the trial comes around those depositions are used.

08-16-2012, 11:10 AM	#1
TXGSP LET MY TEAM GO! Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Just north of COWGAL HELL Posts: 296	Re: Judge calls BS on Goodell Regardless of the evidence.... The league provided some information on this themselves...on their own website Find this article at: NFL denies NFLPA request for delay of penalties in Saints case - NFL.com NFL denies NFLPA request for delay of penalties in Saints case NFL.com Wire Reports Published: March 16, 2012 at 02:56 a.m. Updated: March 16, 2012 at 08:43 a.m. The NFL responded to a request by the NFL Players Association to conduct its own investigation into the New Orleans Saints' pay-for-performance scandal, SI.com reported Thursday. The league told the union that it was free to question any current or former Saints officials about the matter, but that it would not delay announcing its own discipline. That announcement is expected to come soon. Union officials contend they didn't learn of the investigation until shortly before the results were announced, at which point they told the league they wanted to conduct their own investigation. "We have given your requests careful consideration, and have concluded that there is no basis for delaying the imposition of any discipline in this matter, and particularly not as it may apply to a club or any non-player employee of a club," NFL attorney Jeff Pash wrote in the letter to union general counsel Richard Berthelsen on Wednesday. "Any disciplinary action affecting any player would be imposed only in a manner consistent with our Collective Bargaining Agreement. As you know, the sole authority to investigate and impose discipline in this matter rests with the Commissioner." Pash also wrote that team officials were free to speak with union investigators, but that the league "will neither compel them to do so, nor direct them to refrain from doing so." The NFL says the Saints ran a program that gave thousands of dollars in payoffs to players for hits that knocked opponents out of games. The NFL said the amounts reached their peak in 2009, the season the Saints won the Super Bowl. Former Saints assistant coach Gregg Williams, now defensive coordinator of the Rams, has admitted to and apologized for running the program. The Associated Press contributed to this story. If the League denied the request to delay any penalties and reported it on March 16. The Saints, Loomis, and coaches' penatlies were handed out Mar 21, so why did they wait until May 02 to hand out those penalties after denying the request for delay. Looks like this is getting interesting... League story - Player suspensions dated May 02 Jonathan Vilma among four Saints suspended in 'bounty' case - NFL.com TheOak likes this.
	Last edited by Halo; 08-16-2012 at 12:24 PM..

08-16-2012, 11:19 AM	#2
NonieT 500th Post Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 921	Re: Judge calls BS on Goodell Originally Posted by TXGSP Regardless of the evidence.... The league provided some information on this themselves...on their own website Find this article at: NFL denies NFLPA request for delay of penalties in Saints case - NFL.com NFL denies NFLPA request for delay of penalties in Saints caseNFL.com Wire Reports Published: March 16, 2012 at 02:56 a.m. Updated: March 16, 2012 at 08:43 a.m. The NFL responded to a request by the NFL Players Association to conduct its own investigation into the New Orleans Saints' pay-for-performance scandal, SI.com reported Thursday. The league told the union that it was free to question any current or former Saints officials about the matter, but that it would not delay announcing its own discipline. That announcement is expected to come soon. Union officials contend they didn't learn of the investigation until shortly before the results were announced, at which point they told the league they wanted to conduct their own investigation. "We have given your requests careful consideration, and have concluded that there is no basis for delaying the imposition of any discipline in this matter, and particularly not as it may apply to a club or any non-player employee of a club," NFL attorney Jeff Pash wrote in the letter to union general counsel Richard Berthelsen on Wednesday. "Any disciplinary action affecting any player would be imposed only in a manner consistent with our Collective Bargaining Agreement. As you know, the sole authority to investigate and impose discipline in this matter rests with the Commissioner." Pash also wrote that team officials were free to speak with union investigators, but that the league "will neither compel them to do so, nor direct them to refrain from doing so." The NFL says the Saints ran a program that gave thousands of dollars in payoffs to players for hits that knocked opponents out of games. The NFL said the amounts reached their peak in 2009, the season the Saints won the Super Bowl. Former Saints assistant coach Gregg Williams, now defensive coordinator of the Rams, has admitted to and apologized for running the program. The Associated Press contributed to this story. If the League denied the request to delay any penalties and reported it on March 16. The Saints, Loomis, and coaches' penatlies were handed out Mar 21, so why did they wait until May 02 to hand out those penalties after denying the request for delay. Looks like this is getting interesting... League story - Player suspensions dated May 02 Jonathan Vilma among four Saints suspended in 'bounty' case - NFL.com From Saintsreport: On April 23rd--a month later--in an interview with Rich Eisen on the NFLN, Goodell said this about player sanctions: Quote: I hope to reach those decisions very soon. We have been continuing our work. We have continued to talk to players and other people that can give us a perspective. Once we have got all the information and we feel that we are in a position to be able to issue the fairest and most thorough types of decisions, we will do that but I expect to do that soon because this is a big element to me ... I am not necessarily looking for [the NFLPA's] recommendation on discipline. I am looking for their recommendation on what we do to continue to make our game safer and to get this type of activity out of the game and get back to the point where we have respect for each other and the game itself.
NonieT 500th Post Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 921

08-16-2012, 12:39 PM	#3
Halo Site Donor MONTHLY Join Date: May 2002 Location: New Orleans, LA Posts: 20,894 Blog Entries: 45	Re: Judge calls BS on Goodell Originally Posted by x626xBlack Speaking of discovery..... I still have a major issue with the NFLPA not subpoenaing Greg Williams, Roger Goodell, and all parties involved with the "supposed" infractions or the investigation.... So that they could get their own answers... Not getting their own evidence means they are constantly on the Defense instead of the offense... I have yet to see where the NFLPA has filed a motion to get the NFL to turn all 50k pages over.. They asked, but not legally. NFL wins the Time of Possession battle. We're not in discovery phase yet. That starts when the court accepts the case. They're still in hearings about whether to allow a court ordered injunction should be awarded to allow Vilma to play, and eventually whether the court accepts the case. In this hearing phase you probably would not want to force a witness (Goodell or Gregg Williams) to go to court unless he or she has already agreed to testify. You want people to testify who support your position. Dragging someone into court who doesn’t want to be there on your behalf could set the persons testimony against you. A hostile witness in a hearing like this can cause a lot of confusion and raise a lot of issues that muddy the original purpose of the hearing. Hostile cross examination needs to be reserved for the actual court proceedings. In hearings, plaintiffs usually seek evidence needed from another source before getting a subpoena for a reluctant witness. Remember, the "hearing" is not a trial. It's a time to make arguments on the merits of the case so the court will accept the case, and specifically on requests the plaintiff is making (in this case- injunction relief so Vilma can play until all the B.S. is proven to be a farce.)
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08-16-2012, 01:22 PM	#4
TheOak 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Cypress Tx. Posts: 19,047	Re: Judge calls BS on Goodell Originally Posted by Halo We're not in discovery phase yet. That starts when the court accepts the case. They're still in hearings about whether to allow a court ordered injunction should be awarded to allow Vilma to play, and eventually whether the court accepts the case. In this hearing phase you probably would not want to force a witness (Goodell or Gregg Williams) to go to court unless he or she has already agreed to testify. You want people to testify who support your position. Dragging someone into court who doesn’t want to be there on your behalf could set the persons testimony against you. A hostile witness in a hearing like this can cause a lot of confusion and raise a lot of issues that muddy the original purpose of the hearing. Hostile cross examination needs to be reserved for the actual court proceedings. In hearings, plaintiffs usually seek evidence needed from another source before getting a subpoena for a reluctant witness. Remember, the "hearing" is not a trial. It's a time to make arguments on the merits of the case so the court will accept the case, and specifically on requests the plaintiff is making (in this case- injunction relief so Vilma can play until all the B.S. is proven to be a farce.) I did not mean make them "testify", I meant make them show up for deposition. Casual format, questions by the NFLPA lawyers.. answers by the person deposed, all sworn, all recorded. When the trial comes around those depositions are used.

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