Puddinhead

OK...I need a little help. My son's setting up one of his video games for Gamecube (no, I don't know which football game it is) and he's creating a roster for his "All-Time Saints" team. He's asking me, for example, for the top five Saints wide receivers, and the top six running backs, etc. I took the time to give him my thoughts on the top guys at most spots, but I still need some names to flesh out the rest. What he still needs is:

a WR (already gave him Abramowicz, Horn, Martin, and Chandler) I'll likely tell him Quinn Early for the last WR.

3 CBs (he's already using Fred Thomas) I guess I'll tell him Dave Waymer, Toi Cook, and Eric Allen (slim pickings)

a ROLB (to back up Pat Swilling)

a LOLB (to back up Ricky Jackson)

a TE (to back up Hoby Brenner) I'll likely give him Henry Childs

2 LT I'm going with Roaf and Stan Brock

2 RT Didn't give this much thought yet

2 LG (already have Jim Dombrowski)

2 RG Was Dobler RG or LG

Any suggestions??

ScottyRo

Without going back and looking at past line ups, I would have to think Kyle Turley at RT. I seem to remember that we were all pretty pleased with his performance there. If he had only kept his mouth shut and his attitude in check and had we not traded Roaf, he might have been the best RT we ever had.

Who are the QBs and RBs?

Puddinhead

I don\'t know that Turley was any better than what we have right now...when he was RT, we ran left behind Roaf when we ran successfully, and Roaf faced the other team\'s top pass rushers. When Turley moved to LT, he proved to be overmatched by most teams\' pass rushing ends. But considering his competition for this \"All Saints\" team at RT (guys like Dave Lafary), maybe he does make the team.

At QB he\'s got Manning, Hebert, and Brooks, although I told him if he were doing it strictly statistically by who was the best passer, Everett should probably replace Manning. But you just can\'t do that on an \"All Saints\" team.

RBs are McAllister, George Rogers, Reuben Mayes, Dalton Hilliard, and Chuck Muncie. Williams just misses the cut.

JKool

G - Joel Hilgenberg, LeCharles Bentley
TE - Cam Cleeland (his first season he was a beast)
CB - If you don\'t take Vince Buck, I\'ll cry and he was better than Cook.
LOLB - Darrin Smith was pretty good there once.
RT - Turley, I\'ve gotta disagree with you on this one.

That is all off the top of my head though.

It would be fun to see your picks for the other positions.

Puddinhead

Can I really tell him to put Bentley at C when he hasn\'t even played the position yet? LOL I think I gave him John Hill and he wanted Jerry Fontenot at C...although I narrowed it down to Hill and Hilgenberg.

Turley suffers in my eyes from being no where near as good as he appears to think he is, and from the fact that he was a better football player as a raw rookie than he is in every successive year. Whether or not he was still one of the two best RTs ever to play for the Saints might still be debatable.

At TE I had to put Hoby Brenner for being such a good \"balanced\" TE for so many years, all for the Saints...and if it came down to Cleeland and Childs as a \"pass-catching\" TE, Childs wins that one on agility and production. Although if Boo Williams has full seasons to match how he ended last year.....

Vince Buck got consideration, but he was really more of a S being forced to play CB because we didn\'t have anyone better to put there, while Cook and Waymer seemed to start for us for a decade each. I could see Buck instead of Eric Allen, though; even though Allen was probably the most talented we\'ve had (him, Carter, and maybe Reggie Sutton), all of his accomplishments were before and after he was a Saint.

I don\'t have his list here with me, and pretty much only remember the positions (QB, RB, WR) that I\'ve already listed here. Other than Heyward at FB (if it asks for 2 FBs, I\'ll likely tell him to add Tony Galbreath), and of course Jackson, Swilling, and Mills (he filled out his ILBs himself, so I don\'t know who he put other than Mills), I had him put Derland Moore, Wayne Martin, Jim Wilks, Joe Johnson at D-line...he already had put Darren Howard on the team, and I\'m not sure who else, but I know we didn\'t have room for Frank Warren. He had Sammy Knight and Gene Atkins I think at S, to which I had him add Tommy Myers.

I didn\'t suggest any of the guys who came in the original expansion draft who were players elsewhere but just finished up here, like Doug Atkins or Jimmy Taylor.

SaintNik

My ALL-Time Saints Team Starting Lineup is below:

OFFENSE

QB - Archie Manning
RB - George Rogers
FB - Hokie Gajan
WR - Joe Horn
WR - Danny Abramowicz
WR - Eric Martin
C - Steve Korte
OG - Jim Dombrowski
OG - Emanuel Zanders
OT - Willie Roaf
OT - Stan Brock
TE - Hoby Brenner

DEFENSE

DL - Joe Johnson
DL - Bruce Clark
DL - Derland Moore
DL - Frank Warren
LB - Rickey Jackson
LB - Sam Mills
LB - Pat Swilling
FS - Tommy Meyers
SS - Sammy Knight
CB - Dave Waymer
CB - Dave Whitsell

SPECIAL TEAMS

K - Morten Anderson
P - Tommy Barnhardt
PR - Michael Lewis
KR - Tyronne Hughes
KR - Rich Mauti
LS - Kevin Houser
CS - Fred McAfee
CS - Bennie Thompson



As a Saints fan since the francise was awarded I have many players on my \"Best Saints Ever\" list. There are some players on the team now that are not but could be considered. My list may be a bit long (like all of your christmas lists) so please bear with me. By position and/or category but not by rank they are:

QB - Jeff Blake, Aaron Brooks, Kerry Collins, Jake Delhomme, Bobby Douglas, Jim Everett, John Fourcade, Bobby Hebert, Billy Joe Hobert, Billy Kilmer, Tommy Kramer, Archie \"Who\" Manning, Bobby Scott, Ken \"Snake\" Stabler, Richard Todd, Billy Joe Tolliver, Steve Walsh, Dave Wilson, Wade Wilson, Danny Wuerffel.

RB - Tony Baker, Mario Bates, Derek Brown, Earl Campbell, Gil Fenerty, Tony \"Lightning\" Galbreath, Dalton Hilliard, Les Kelley, Fred \"Fast Freddie\" McAfee, Deuce McAllister, Rueben Mayes, Chuck \"Thunder\" Muncie, Jess Phillips, George Rogers, Jimmy Rogers, Lamar Smith, Mike Strachan, Jim Taylor, Ernie \"Big\" Wheelwright, Ricky Williams, Wayne Wilson, Barry Word.

FB - Hokie Gajan, Craig \"IronHead\" Heyward, Buford Jordan, Lorenzo \"1 Punch\" Neal, Terrelle \"T Rex\" Smith, Ray Zellars.

WR - Danny Abramowicz, Larry Burton, Wes Carroll, Wes Chandler, Sean Dawkins, Al Dodd, Quinn Early, John Gilliam, Eugene Goodlow, Jeff Groth, Andre Hastings, Michael Haynes, Lorenzo \"Moe\" Hill, Randall Hill, Ike Harris, Joe \"Hollywood\" Horn, Willie Jackson, Haywood Jeffries, Eddie Kennison, Michael Lewis, Eric Martin, Rich Mauti, Bob Newland,Tinker Owens, Jerome Pathon, Brett Perriman, Keith \"Knee Deep\" Poole, Jake Reed, Torrance Small, Donte Stallworth, Floyd Turner.

TE - Hoby Brenner, Henry Childs, Cam Cleeland, Ernie Conwell, Lamont Hall, Larry Hardy, Jim Hester, Dave Parks, Irv Smith, John Tice, Frank Wainwright, Wesley Walls, Mike Waters, Boo Williams.

OL - LeCharles Bentley, Stan Brock, James Campen, Chuck Commiskey, Richard Cooper, Conrad Dobler, Jim Dombrowski, Brad Edelman, Spencer Falou, Jerry Fontenot, Kendall Gammon, Leon Gray, Jay Hilgenberg, Joel Hilgenberg, Keno Hills, Montrae Holland, Kendall Jacox, Clarence Jones, Steve Korte, Jake Kupp, Dave Lafary, Andy McCollum, Chris Naeole, Remi Prudhomme, Victor Riley, Willie Roaf, Daryl Terrell, Steve Trapilo, Kyle Turley, Mike Verstegen, Del Williams, Wally Williams, Emanuel \"Z Man\" Zanders.

DB - Eric Allen, Ashley Ambrose, \"Mean\" Gene Atkins, Jay Bellamy, Vince Buck, Dale Carter, Clarence Chapman, JeRod Cherry, Toi \"Fry\" Cook, Chad Cota, Antonio Gibson, Ken Irvin, Steve Esreal, Reginald Jones, Rob Kelly, Sammy \"Lights Out\" Knight, Tyronne Leggette, Cedric Mack, Milton Mack, Robert Massey, Kevin Mathis, Brett Maxie, Tommy Meyers, Anthony Newman, Johnnie Poe, Jimmy Spencer, Reggie Sutton, Fred Thomas, Frank Wattelet, Dave Waymer, Fred Weary, Dave Whitsell.

LB - Ken Bordelon, Jackie Burkett, Rusty Chambers, Charlie Clemmons, Wayne Colman, Jack Del Rio, Joe Federspeil, Mark Fields, Richard Harvey, James Haynes, Ray Hester, Sedrick Hodge, Rickey Jackson, Vaughn Johnson, Rick Kingrea, Jim Kovach, Jim Merlo, Sam \"Field Mouse\" Mills, Keith Mitchell, Kevin Mitchell, Scott Pelluer, Orlando Ruff, Derrick Rodgers, Darren Smith, Steve Stonebreaker, Pat Swilling, Alvin Toles, Winfred Tubbs, Fred Whittingham, James Williams, Dennis \"Dirt\" Winston.

DL - Doug Atkins, Steve Baumgartner, Joe Campbell, Bruce Clark, Lou Cordileone, James \"Jumpy\" Geathers, LaRoi Glover, Robert \"Pig\" Goff, Charles Grant, Elois Grooms, Norman Hand, Darren Howard, Grady Jackson, Joe Johnson, Wayne Martin, Darren Mickell, Les Miller, Derland Moore, Richard Neal, Bob Pollard, Elex Price, Don Reese, Austin Robbins, Joel Smeenge, Brady Smith, Kenny Smith, Jonathan Sullivan, Jared Tomich, Renaldo Turnbull, Frank Warren, Willie Whitehead, Jim Wilks.

ST - Morten Anderson, Tommy Barnhardt, Tom Blanchard, Brett Bech, Doug Brien, Jon Carney, JeRod Cherry, Tom Dempsey, Charlie Durkee, John Gilliam, Toby Gowin, Steve Gleason, Mel Gray, Eric Guliford, Brian Hansen, Kevin Houser, Tyronne Hughes, Michael Lewis, Rich Mauti, Fred McAfee, J.J. McCleskey, Tom McNeill, Brain Milne, Guido Merkins, Chad Morton, Dino Philyaw, Howard Stevens, Bennie Thompson, Robert Wilson, Walt \"Flea\" Roberts, Mark Royals.




[Edited on 14/7/2004 by SaintNik]

Just Chillin Checking Out The B&G Forum While Waiting For My Ship To Come In

http://img51.exs.cx/img51/4387/Santa_on_raft.jpg

JKool

Joel Hillgenberg and Bentley both played GUARD though. Jay Hillgenberg played C, as did Joel after him, as I recall.

kenpersons

Gil Fenerty and Buford Jordan ruled. I loved those guys. And Moe Hill? Man. Jumpy Geathers and his fricking forklift pass rush. Just reading through these names gives me the warm and fuzzies.

JKool

Naole was a pretty darn good LG. I say go with him.

As for Buck - he may have been \"like a Safety\", but he was a corner. In fact, as I recall, they had to retrain him to play Safety that year that he got hurt.

JKool

This is fun.

Here\'s my team:

QB - Aarron Brooks
RB - Duece McAllister/Dalton Hilliard
FB - \"Iron Head\" Heyward
WR - Joe Horn
WR - Eric Martin
WR - Quinn Early/Donte Stallworth
C - Joel Hillgenberg
G - Chris Naole
G - Jim Dombrowski/LeCharles Bentley
T - Willie Roaf
T- Stan Brock
TE - Hoby Brenner/Boo Williams

FS - Gene Atkins
SS - Sammy Knight/Chad Cota
CB - Eric Allen
CB - Dave Waymer/Fred Thomas
NB - Vince Buck/Ashely Ambrose
SLB - Rickey Jackson
MLB - Vaughn Johnson/Sam Mills
WLB - Pat Swilling
DE - Joe Johnson/Darren Howard
DE - Wayne Martin/Charles Grant
DT - Frank Warren/Jim Wilks
DT - LaRoi Glover

K - Morten Andersen
P - Tommy Barnhardt
PR - Gil \"The Thrill\" Fennerty
KR - Michael \"Beer Man\" Lewis
CS - Fred McAfee
CS - Mel Grey
LS - Kevin Houser

Maybe it is obvious I haven\'t been around as long - some of the great oldies I never saw play.

"... I was beating them with my eyes the whole game..." - Aaron Brooks