The 2012 Saints Defense Poll and discussion
 

A great defense is a puzzle of pieces that have to fit together. It is not just a matter of having great personnel, it is a matter of having great personnel for the scheme that you are running.

If your scheme is dependent on getting pressure on the QB, but your front 4 are skilled at "run stop" it will be difficult to stop the passing from good QB's with good receivers.

This has to be somewhat balanced also... Some teams are great at run stop, and others are great at Pass defense. A few examples:

2011:
San Francisco: 1- Rushing 16- Passing
Miami: 3- Rushing 25- Passing
Jets: 5 Passing 13- Rushing

Scheduling plays a big part in how your season turns out. If you play a ton of great passing offenses and you are built for run stop it will show and vice versa.

Please vote and discuss. Its early in the season but we all have some sort of felling that is worthy of discussion. This should be a purely defensive discussion, not a guess at W-L numbers... Dint just say our defense is terrible or great... Why is it so?

Re: The 2012 Saints Defense Poll and discussion
 

We need more games before I decide... Spags has a very complex defense and has started slow everywhere he has been...

2 of our starting LBs last week didn't practice much the week prior and our #1 corner was out. I'll give them a few games...

The offense didn't do them any favors in that game, we didn't possess the ball much at all...

Re: The 2012 Saints Defense Poll and discussion
 

Still too early, but our personnel isn't a perfect match for Spag's system. We need a couple more pieces.

With that said, we should still be middle of the pack on the defensive side of the ball. There's enough talent there to finish ranked between 10th-16th. Thats really all we need to win it all.

Re: The 2012 Saints Defense Poll and discussion
 

Spags needs one guy who is a consistent threat to get to the QB on every down. His well known defenses had a couple of those guys, but, like Danno said, we don't need a top 5 squad to get us to the dance.

Hopefully when the details of his scheme have sunk in with the current players we'll see a bit of improvement. Just think what ONE more turnover would've done for us last Sunday. If Robinson comes up with that pick or we force a fumble in the pocket its a whole new game

Re: The 2012 Saints Defense Poll and discussion
 

I will add to that. Spags needs one person who can consistently get to the QB and another who can do it when it needs to be done.

This will create a double team for the stronger guy and a mismatch for the weaker one right next to him..

2010 Vikings for example. Jarred Allen with Guion right next to him

Guion had 12 tackles and 2 sacks
Allen had 45 tackles and 11 sacks in 2011 he has 22 sacks

That's 24 sacks coming from that side of the ball. That's production.

Not exactly apples to apples but you get my drift.

Re: The 2012 Saints Defense Poll and discussion
 

Spags need people who can get to the QB in one on one matchups (d.ware, osi and mario Williams type players) but he also needs a safety than can stay with a receiver for a little longer if the rush doesn't get there immediately

I know most people say Pass rush help your coverage, but Jenkins cannot cover anybody to say he was the most highly touted CB coming out of college

Re: The 2012 Saints Defense Poll and discussion
 

I think everybody is still trying to get in where they fit in.
Spags is still making adjustments based on personnels ability to get the job done.
Once the dust settles, I'm hoping for some improvement and some consistency.
I would like to see them excel at one thing (p-rush, run-stop, coverage, ... something)
and then work to sure up the rest of it. Find their strength then build around it.
I will definitely give them more time. Ask me again in week 4 or 5.

Re: The 2012 Saints Defense Poll and discussion
 

one game. too soon to figure out who goes to the electric chair.

Re: The 2012 Saints Defense Poll and discussion
 

Interesting.... So far all voters are undecided. Monday morning the defense was guaranteeing us a .500 season LOL... Great discussion though, may help to sooth some of the more excitable people. Hopefully this progresses through the season, i am interested in seeing how opinions will evolve.

Re: The 2012 Saints Defense Poll and discussion
 

I added to the concensus vote. More time is needed to see. Pass rush is a glaring weakness from the front 4. Will Smith and Cam Jordan are great 2 way ends but neither is an elite rusher. Gallette and Wilson can be rushers but are undersized and less effective vs. the run. Ellis and Bunkley when drafted were better pocket collapsers than they were run stuffers in college. They really haven't showed it much yet in the pros. If we are going to be a passive defense from the back 7 we sure need these 4 to get after the QB.

Re: The 2012 Saints Defense Poll and discussion
 

The presonnel doesn't fit the scheme. And thanks to old Rog' we weren't able to give Spags any help this year.

Re: The 2012 Saints Defense Poll and discussion
 

Spags is good at what he does but for him to come in and in one season create a great defense...I think most fans condsider that unrealistic.

Add to that the coaching shake-up and he's facing a major uphill battle. New system, new players, new coaches week to week...I'm just hoping he can get it good enough. Once the offense steps up that's all we need.

Re: The 2012 Saints Defense Poll and discussion
 

Well, I didn't see the "We Just Suck" option, but I voted anyway...

Re: The 2012 Saints Defense Poll and discussion
 

Redskins had 12 possessions, 8 of which scored. You force them to punt two more times per half, instead of points, or even just two or three more punts total in the game, and at the end of the day you would be looking at one of those typical 31-17 type manhandling scores that we all know and love so well in the Dome. It's really that simple. Does not need to be a world-beating defense.

Re: The 2012 Saints Defense Poll and discussion
 

Its been one game..... Now if CAM bounces back and we make him look like Joe Montana ugh smh... Drew will have to carry the team again....

Re: The 2012 Saints Defense Poll and discussion
 

Under normal circumstances maybe, this year we will need a little more than that. I don't see our defense having a chance of being any higher than middle of the pack, so to win it all our Offense has to be absolutely flawless, luck has to go our way, special teams has to play lights out, and Breesus really will have to walk on water. Its hard to make up for not having a head coach man.

Re: The 2012 Saints Defense Poll and discussion
 

In 2010, the Vikes still had the "Williams Wall" as their DTs - Pat and Kevin Williams - Guion was only a rotational player who was also brought in for special packages.

Pat Williams started 16 of 16 games, as did Kevin Williams. Also, last year Allen played next to Kevin Williams, who is considered by many to be one of the best 4-3 DTs in the league. Kevin usually lines up as the RDT.

To me a better example concerning the Vikes front 4 would be how Brian Bobison shined as the other DE last year after Ray Edwards went to Atlanta. Robison had been a depth and ST guy before that without any significant accomplishments, but after he earned the starting position in the preseason - he was really good all through the season and managed to get 8 sacks. More than any numbers could tell, Robison was a really disruptive force on the field and significantly helped Allen get some of his sacks. Robison's emergence as a real threat forced opposing defenses to not only concentrate on Allen with double teams, but also to put some effort into stopping Robison on the other edge, which in turn allowed Allen to have more/better chances to the get to the QB.

It would be nice if the Saints had a player of Allen's or William's quality in their front 4, but players like that are rare, and they cost a lot when they could be had in the free agency.

Good reply. LOL I knew I was reaching to make my point.