The 2012 Saints Defense Poll and discussion

TheOak · 09-13-2012, 10:00 AM

A great defense is a puzzle of pieces that have to fit together. It is not just a matter of having great personnel, it is a matter of having great personnel for the scheme that you are running.

If your scheme is dependent on getting pressure on the QB, but your front 4 are skilled at "run stop" it will be difficult to stop the passing from good QB's with good receivers.

This has to be somewhat balanced also... Some teams are great at run stop, and others are great at Pass defense. A few examples:

2011:
San Francisco: 1- Rushing 16- Passing
Miami: 3- Rushing 25- Passing
Jets: 5 Passing 13- Rushing

Scheduling plays a big part in how your season turns out. If you play a ton of great passing offenses and you are built for run stop it will show and vice versa.

Please vote and discuss. Its early in the season but we all have some sort of felling that is worthy of discussion. This should be a purely defensive discussion, not a guess at W-L numbers... Dint just say our defense is terrible or great... Why is it so?

|Mitch| · 09-13-2012, 10:14 AM

We need more games before I decide... Spags has a very complex defense and has started slow everywhere he has been...

2 of our starting LBs last week didn't practice much the week prior and our #1 corner was out. I'll give them a few games...

The offense didn't do them any favors in that game, we didn't possess the ball much at all...

Danno · 09-13-2012, 10:16 AM

Still too early, but our personnel isn't a perfect match for Spag's system. We need a couple more pieces.

With that said, we should still be middle of the pack on the defensive side of the ball. There's enough talent there to finish ranked between 10th-16th. Thats really all we need to win it all.

Shoe. · 09-13-2012, 10:25 AM

Spags needs one guy who is a consistent threat to get to the QB on every down. His well known defenses had a couple of those guys, but, like Danno said, we don't need a top 5 squad to get us to the dance.

Hopefully when the details of his scheme have sunk in with the current players we'll see a bit of improvement. Just think what ONE more turnover would've done for us last Sunday. If Robinson comes up with that pick or we force a fumble in the pocket its a whole new game

TheOak · 09-13-2012, 10:38 AM

Originally Posted by Shoe.

Spags needs one guy who is a consistent threat to get to the QB on every down. His well known defenses had a couple of those guys, but, like Danno said, we don't need a top 5 squad to get us to the dance.

Hopefully when the details of his scheme have sunk in with the current players we'll see a bit of improvement. Just think what ONE more turnover would've done for us last Sunday. If Robinson comes up with that pick or we force a fumble in the pocket its a whole new game

I will add to that. Spags needs one person who can consistently get to the QB and another who can do it when it needs to be done.

This will create a double team for the stronger guy and a mismatch for the weaker one right next to him..

2010 Vikings for example. Jarred Allen with Guion right next to him

Guion had 12 tackles and 2 sacks
Allen had 45 tackles and 11 sacks in 2011 he has 22 sacks

That's 24 sacks coming from that side of the ball. That's production.

Not exactly apples to apples but you get my drift.

dizzle88 · 09-13-2012, 11:04 AM

Spags need people who can get to the QB in one on one matchups (d.ware, osi and mario Williams type players) but he also needs a safety than can stay with a receiver for a little longer if the rush doesn't get there immediately

I know most people say Pass rush help your coverage, but Jenkins cannot cover anybody to say he was the most highly touted CB coming out of college

darstep · 09-13-2012, 11:48 AM

I think everybody is still trying to get in where they fit in.
Spags is still making adjustments based on personnels ability to get the job done.
Once the dust settles, I'm hoping for some improvement and some consistency.
I would like to see them excel at one thing (p-rush, run-stop, coverage, ... something)
and then work to sure up the rest of it. Find their strength then build around it.
I will definitely give them more time. Ask me again in week 4 or 5.

xan · 09-13-2012, 12:20 PM

one game. too soon to figure out who goes to the electric chair.

TheOak · 09-13-2012, 12:21 PM

Interesting.... So far all voters are undecided. Monday morning the defense was guaranteeing us a .500 season LOL... Great discussion though, may help to sooth some of the more excitable people. Hopefully this progresses through the season, i am interested in seeing how opinions will evolve.

lumm0x · 09-13-2012, 12:24 PM

I added to the concensus vote. More time is needed to see. Pass rush is a glaring weakness from the front 4. Will Smith and Cam Jordan are great 2 way ends but neither is an elite rusher. Gallette and Wilson can be rushers but are undersized and less effective vs. the run. Ellis and Bunkley when drafted were better pocket collapsers than they were run stuffers in college. They really haven't showed it much yet in the pros. If we are going to be a passive defense from the back 7 we sure need these 4 to get after the QB.

View Poll Results: What is your view of the 2012 defensive players and scheme?
We have the right pieces for the right Defensive Scheme.	3	10.71%
Our defensive scheme and our defensive personnel do not match.	3	10.71%
The season needs to play out a little more before I decide.	22	78.57%
Voters: 28. You may not vote on this poll

09-13-2012, 10:00 AM	#1
TheOak 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Cypress Tx. Posts: 19,027	The 2012 Saints Defense Poll and discussion A great defense is a puzzle of pieces that have to fit together. It is not just a matter of having great personnel, it is a matter of having great personnel for the scheme that you are running. If your scheme is dependent on getting pressure on the QB, but your front 4 are skilled at "run stop" it will be difficult to stop the passing from good QB's with good receivers. This has to be somewhat balanced also... Some teams are great at run stop, and others are great at Pass defense. A few examples: 2011: San Francisco: 1- Rushing 16- Passing Miami: 3- Rushing 25- Passing Jets: 5 Passing 13- Rushing Scheduling plays a big part in how your season turns out. If you play a ton of great passing offenses and you are built for run stop it will show and vice versa. Please vote and discuss. Its early in the season but we all have some sort of felling that is worthy of discussion. This should be a purely defensive discussion, not a guess at W-L numbers... Dint just say our defense is terrible or great... Why is it so?
	It's not what you look at that matters, it's what you see. ~ Henry David Thoreau

09-13-2012, 10:14 AM	#2
\|Mitch\| 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Alexandria, La Posts: 11,303	Re: The 2012 Saints Defense Poll and discussion We need more games before I decide... Spags has a very complex defense and has started slow everywhere he has been... 2 of our starting LBs last week didn't practice much the week prior and our #1 corner was out. I'll give them a few games... The offense didn't do them any favors in that game, we didn't possess the ball much at all...

09-13-2012, 10:16 AM	#3
Danno Truth Addict Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Spanish Fort, AL (via NO and B/R) Posts: 24,723	Re: The 2012 Saints Defense Poll and discussion Still too early, but our personnel isn't a perfect match for Spag's system. We need a couple more pieces. With that said, we should still be middle of the pack on the defensive side of the ball. There's enough talent there to finish ranked between 10th-16th. Thats really all we need to win it all.

09-13-2012, 10:25 AM	#4
Shoe. 500th Post Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Hub City Posts: 576	Re: The 2012 Saints Defense Poll and discussion Spags needs one guy who is a consistent threat to get to the QB on every down. His well known defenses had a couple of those guys, but, like Danno said, we don't need a top 5 squad to get us to the dance. Hopefully when the details of his scheme have sunk in with the current players we'll see a bit of improvement. Just think what ONE more turnover would've done for us last Sunday. If Robinson comes up with that pick or we force a fumble in the pocket its a whole new game

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09-13-2012, 10:38 AM	#5
TheOak 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Cypress Tx. Posts: 19,027	Re: The 2012 Saints Defense Poll and discussion Originally Posted by Shoe. Spags needs one guy who is a consistent threat to get to the QB on every down. His well known defenses had a couple of those guys, but, like Danno said, we don't need a top 5 squad to get us to the dance. Hopefully when the details of his scheme have sunk in with the current players we'll see a bit of improvement. Just think what ONE more turnover would've done for us last Sunday. If Robinson comes up with that pick or we force a fumble in the pocket its a whole new game I will add to that. Spags needs one person who can consistently get to the QB and another who can do it when it needs to be done. This will create a double team for the stronger guy and a mismatch for the weaker one right next to him.. 2010 Vikings for example. Jarred Allen with Guion right next to him Guion had 12 tackles and 2 sacks Allen had 45 tackles and 11 sacks in 2011 he has 22 sacks That's 24 sacks coming from that side of the ball. That's production. Not exactly apples to apples but you get my drift.
	It's not what you look at that matters, it's what you see. ~ Henry David Thoreau

09-13-2012, 11:04 AM	#6
dizzle88 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 11,359	Re: The 2012 Saints Defense Poll and discussion Spags need people who can get to the QB in one on one matchups (d.ware, osi and mario Williams type players) but he also needs a safety than can stay with a receiver for a little longer if the rush doesn't get there immediately I know most people say Pass rush help your coverage, but Jenkins cannot cover anybody to say he was the most highly touted CB coming out of college

09-13-2012, 11:48 AM	#7
darstep SaintSince67 Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: PortCity Posts: 2,044	Re: The 2012 Saints Defense Poll and discussion I think everybody is still trying to get in where they fit in. Spags is still making adjustments based on personnels ability to get the job done. Once the dust settles, I'm hoping for some improvement and some consistency. I would like to see them excel at one thing (p-rush, run-stop, coverage, ... something) and then work to sure up the rest of it. Find their strength then build around it. I will definitely give them more time. Ask me again in week 4 or 5.

09-13-2012, 12:20 PM	#8
xan Professor Crab and Site Donor 2014 Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Princeton Posts: 3,371 Blog Entries: 34	Re: The 2012 Saints Defense Poll and discussion one game. too soon to figure out who goes to the electric chair.

09-13-2012, 12:21 PM	#9
TheOak 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Cypress Tx. Posts: 19,027	Re: The 2012 Saints Defense Poll and discussion Interesting.... So far all voters are undecided. Monday morning the defense was guaranteeing us a .500 season LOL... Great discussion though, may help to sooth some of the more excitable people. Hopefully this progresses through the season, i am interested in seeing how opinions will evolve.

09-13-2012, 12:24 PM	#10
lumm0x Resident antediluvian Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 2,026	Re: The 2012 Saints Defense Poll and discussion I added to the concensus vote. More time is needed to see. Pass rush is a glaring weakness from the front 4. Will Smith and Cam Jordan are great 2 way ends but neither is an elite rusher. Gallette and Wilson can be rushers but are undersized and less effective vs. the run. Ellis and Bunkley when drafted were better pocket collapsers than they were run stuffers in college. They really haven't showed it much yet in the pros. If we are going to be a passive defense from the back 7 we sure need these 4 to get after the QB. darstep likes this.