Spagnolo
 

Ill start with a question. Anyone ever thought of letting Sean Payton go?
First three years under Payton:
2006 = 10-6
2007 = 7-9
2008 = 8-8

Frikken ludicrous thought isn't it right now?

Spagnolo has has two frikken games and people are already discussing letting him go.

Saints fans can be difficult to understand for me some times. They become smitten with a player and want to keep him forever, even after a few seasons prove that the player is not producing and needs to go.

Examples: (I have seen people wish we had these players back recently)
Reggie Bush
Jonathan Vilma
Tracey Porter

Yet when someone takes time to develop... They get 3 qtrs and they gots ta go!

Re: Spagnolo
 

Apparently it was the same story in NY the year they went to the Bowl. NYers wanted him given the can after the first two games, but they don't seem to complain as loudly now, for some reason or another

Re: Spagnolo
 

Exactly why in mu wildest dreams Saints fans endeavor to not act like New Yorkers.

Let... things...develop.

Spags also didn't have 7,421 distractions going on in NY when he did that. Sh1t will gel, just give it time.

It is also note worthy to say: Give it time because we don't have a choice :-)

Re: Spagnolo
 

I'm willing to give it time, because we couldn't suck any harder even if we upgraded to 93 octane. We have reached maximum sucktitude. It can't get any worse.

Re: Spagnolo
 

Most are so frustrated that they are not recognizing how big of an impact this defensive growth period is having.

It will GEL, just give it time.... Mostly because you have no choice but to give it time. :-)

Special Teams: Our punt return team has taken the field how many times this season? 3? maybe? If you cant make them punt, Sproles cant get his hands on the ball.

Our Offense: If you are not making them punt, chances are nearly every drive ends up in either 3 or 7 points. Playing from behind changes Drew and our offense, it also changes how the plays are being called. There is a such thing as over aggression.

When they do punt, its because they are just outside of field goal range and its into the endzone keeping Sproles from taking it out.

Our Defense People, this defense has been turned upside down. Captain Suspended, Coach replaced, Blitzkrieg changed to a complex Spagnolo zone scheme, starters suspended, confidence is ZERO. If you do not understand how much confidence plays into elite level sports you should try.

Wish I could get 20 minutes in front of the team. Ive a hunch that the "Do your job" is being misinterpreted by some, especially Drew. It has two meanings.

1. Do the job you are paid to do and that you know how to do so no one is having to pick up your slack.

2. Do YOUR job and no one elses. Drew needs to pull back and be the QB and not the coach also. This is a product of inexperienced COACHES, not play callers. One of those coaches needs to sit drew down and tell him to manage the ball and not the entire team.

Re: Spagnolo
 

Yes it could be worse... Opponents have punted 4 times... Could be zero.

Re: Spagnolo
 

I have noticed this, too, and I think the psychology of why people do this, actually goes back to the days when the team wasn't very good for so darn long. Back then there was this real love for certain players -- almost weepy, sentimental, bittersweet love -- for the good players on famously bad Saints teams. Like they were gods of the woulda, shoulda, coulda alternate universe that never was, the kings of IF ONLY. I mean going way back to Manning and Abramowitz and Stonebreaker, guys on the earliest teams, the Dome Patrol, the love people had for Bobby Hebert beyond all proportion to what he actually did, etc. etc.

Even long before free agency or fantasy football made this kind of thinking popular, Saints fans of long ago were keyed in on individual players on otherwise weak teams, and got emotionally attached to them...because you couldn't get emotionally attached to the whole team itself, because the team generally sucked so hard or the end result of the game was disappointing.

My theory on this is that some people have this thing where, if the HAPPY BUTTON gets pushed by a certain player, if they have a good experience with him, if he gets their endorphins zooming, they want to keep that player around and keep pushing that HAPPY BUTTON forever. ZAP. ZAP. ZAP. So, the players you named, that people are super attached to, I think they kinda fit that category, maybe?

Sharper is another one. He pushed people's HAPPY BUTTON a lot, and STILL to this day there are people over on SR who are like, "they should bring back Sharper for a tryout!"

Re: Spagnolo
 

Its not just football my friend. The "thats our guy" goes beyond the boundaries of sports.

Some people still want this cat back.
http://www.nndb.com/people/216/00002...edwards-sm.jpg

Re: Spagnolo
 

No. Our problem is not the defense, it's the lack of motivation and intensity on both sides of the ball. That won't change until we get Sean back next year. By then, the defense will have figured out the new scheme and everything will be better. Besides, the Giants defense was terrible for the first few games after his arrival too. I don't think any changes need to be made in Sean's absence.

Re: Spagnolo
 

Call me what you will; but I have chalked this year up as a rebuilding year.

Without Sean, this team is going to suffer. It has suffered. The guys on defense have asmitted that this new defense is complex and it is taking them a little time to learn it. We as fans, need to step out of our "Homer" bodies and realize this has a chance to be a horrible year.

This time in Saintdom, sucks people. Let's just be honest about that. The whole "Us against Them" slogan sounds nice, but without Sean, this team is lost folks.

I think we have the personnel on defense to be good (minus Shanle) and I really think they will be what we were expecting this year; is what they will be next year.

Now before people start bashing me and saying I am giving up on the Saints... No, I do not think we will go winless. However, a SuperBowl is way out of the question. Yes, Sean Payton does mean THAT much to this team. The head of "Our Snake" has been cut off and another one isn't going to just grow back. And if you think this is my first time to state that coaches are important; go search some of my older post when Haslett was fired and we were looking fo a new coach.

Coaches and coaching, MATTERS!

Re: Spagnolo
 

To let a coach go based on his performance this season would be totally asinine. The challenges he is facing with this franchise is probably the most any coach has had to deal with, besides Payton with Katrina. Its hard to walk into an organization surrounded by scandal with a coaching and management staff that are not there. You won't be able to tell anything about the way his scheme and coaching ability are all about this year.

I am one of the ones that has been down on Spags. But after reading the OP's post, I will re-think my stance and try to be more patient. Part of my reason for being unhappy w him is that I didn't want him to begin with - I thought he was a product of the talent he had in StL and NY, and I didn't think we had the right personnel to match up to his D schemes. That being said, I agree that he came in behind the 8 ball and is having to work under a uniquely negative circumstance - our whole team is for that matter. I believe they're all doing their best, but its been frustrating to see them underperform. Who Dat

Re: Spagnolo
 

Along those lines, I think once Vitt returns we should see a difference...or at least I'm hoping we will. I think we a team gets down to an interim interim coach, there will be problems.

Re: Spagnolo
 

Spagnuolo has proven he can build a top 5 defense. The problem is he needs to build it. His scheme is founded upon front 4 pressure. Our old scheme was founded upon front 4 gap control and consuming blockers to allow the blitz to supply pressure. Until we can get the personnel up front that can create pocket pressure this will struggle. A zone defense without pressure is big holes waiting to be exploited. New roles for the d-line. New roles for the linebackers and new roles for the secondary. Guys used to blitzing or playing man coverage are now being asked to cover a piece of territory and ignore all else and it's not evolving well. Over time it will, and new people will be brought in to more effectively fill certain positions.

I feel dumb for thinking our defense would immediately improve. And it's my own fault. It should have been obvious it would be a year or two to see the evolution into where we need to be.

I agree, coaching deficiencies are a problem. But incorrect and/or confused personnel are also a problem.

Re: Spagnolo
 

you forgot meachum. i want meachum back

Re: Spagnolo
 

You sure? He has had two catches in four games for SD.

Re: Spagnolo
 

Meacham so far this season: Drops + injuries = oh yeah, THAT'S why we let him go

Fast? Yes.
Worth the money? If Loomis doesn't think so, I'm inclined to believe him

Re: Spagnolo
 

Don't forget that Henderson was out in week 2 and missed part of week 1. I'm not his biggest fan, but with Meachem gone and Henderson out there's a ton of experience not playing for us.

The guys behind Henderson just don't have it though i'd like to see more Roby. Morgan can't seem to catch.

But, this thread has been jacked since it is supposed to be about Spags. He needs time and a chance to coach with Payton around.

Re: Spagnolo
 

ok... so now do we love Devery?
I always was a fan of him.
You just cant throw right to him uncovered, (except NE game).... he has
to be twisting around, upside down reaching behind his back with 2 safeties
hitting his head. Then he catches it!

Re: Spagnolo
 

When did Spud build a great defense as I read in another post, spud was a assistant coach under the late great Jim Johnson's in Phili. He left there in 2007 to become the Giants defensive coordinator and didn't build anything the pieces were already there, arguably the best front four in the NFL. Left in 2009 to become the head coach at St. louis and we all know how that turned out. The jury IMO is still out on Spuds.
Can he adapt his defense that was learned from Jim Johnson to the players he has has yet to be seen, just basing my opinion on what I've seen so far and it hasn't been very good. Will it improve, I certainly hope so!!!!
I know I've been critical but as the poster say's, "Do Your Job", has he done his? He took the job and the paycheck now it's time for him to teach the players his scheme. Everyone on this forum in everyday life when they go to work their expected to do a job if they can't do the job mor than likely they'll find someone else to replace you, Spud is no different. He new the situation when he took the job, now he needs to get these guys playing good football. Sorry but that just life.

Re: Spagnolo
 

^ You do know that Spags drafted JPP right? He also drafted Corey White and Akiem Hicks... Hicks looks like he might be a good one and White can tackle just needs to work on the coverage skills...

Re: Spagnolo
 

I don't think anyone seriously wants rid of Spags already, and I think most Saints fans are reasonable enough to accept that this re-jiggering of our defense is gonna take some time. However, the complaints are gonna get louder if some improvement doesn't manifest itself soon.

The defense has been terrible our 1st two games, that is a simple fact. People are gonna vent about it here, this is a Saints message board and that is a poster's right. It's not complicated, nor is it anything new.

Re: Spagnolo
 

You do have to give Spagnuolo a little more than a year to see if he's had some progression; for me, the problem is personnel...

We've got two very overpaid players on defense in Will Smith and Roman Harper...

We've got first round busts in Sedrick Ellis and Malcolm Jenkins with the jury still out on Patrick Robinson and Cam Jordan...

And where we've done fairly well in Free Agency - we've not been aggressive enough; take the money paid to the aforementioned players and get people in their that are younger, faster, stronger that are going to make big hits and plays...

Let's give opportunities to Corey White, Rafael Bush, and Martez Wilson - there's a ceiling to what you can learn on the bench...

Re: Spagnolo
 

JPP was a decision made by the organization and he probably had some say, but 1 player that he wasn't around to coach does not add up to building a defense, the Giants as I stated was already loaded and as for as the other 2 we'll see, to this point I've seen nothing that made me say WOW what a draft pick.
I'm hoping he can turn this into a top 10 defense but at this point I'll settle for a top 20, being rated almost last in every category is not that good. Time will tell, I'm just pointing out the facts, he has never built a defense.
You do understand what I'm saying?

Re: Spagnolo
 

Don't forget hicks, the only thing Sedric Ellis could move is the twinkies to get to the doughnuts

Re: Spagnolo
 

Niche player?

Re: Spagnolo
 

I would just like to see some improvement each week from the defense for starters, I could live with that.

Re: Spagnolo
 

Let's also remember that Spags did not have a 1st or 2nd round pick either.......most of your impact players come from there.

Spags has been put under a bus and has to crawl out from under it. Without any help thanks to Godhell.

Re: Spagnolo
 

I think SaperSaint has said it best and yes Vitt can make a difference. It,s a long season and there is still a thread of hope for a winning season. Our inability to make adjustments is a lack of coaching. Benson has not and is not doing his job. He failed to realize how important it is for a team to build an idenity which is fashioned after their head coach. We still need to bring someone in here. To think otherwise is folly.

Re: Spagnolo
 

Ellis is a bust, Smith has lost a step, Harper is miscast and Jenkins play and field generalship is dismal on his good day, I totally disagree on Jordan he's looking like a force to be reconed with. Robinson will be fine in the backfield if we get a true FS back there that can read the O and line them up properly instead of guessing, I'm all for letting White,Wilson, Bush, and I'll add Quaddus to the mix to see much more time in their respected positions they might add that much needed spark and may be the answer at their position, it would be nice.

Re: Spagnolo
 

I think the whole problem on Defense is that our players are still thinking too much, then reacting. Thats causing them to be just a hair too late, or leads to blown coverages (LB's and DB's).

Once these guys are comfortable with Spags system, they'll look faster, tackle batter, and start anticipating instead of hesitating.

Its been said enough so I'll take it as fact, Spags run a complex defense that has a longer learning curve than most DC's.

Here's some news that probably won't make you feel any better... Michael Stahan loves Spags' defense, but he said Spags defense really didn't "click" with him completely until about week 10.

Re: Spagnolo
 

I've never been a fan of complex defenses. These guys are in the NFL because they're superior athletes. The great defenses attack. That's their mindset. Busting folks up. Spags defense is based on getting pressure up front. Other than Jordan, who while not being the most athletic is a great motor guy, the pressure has been non-existent. Greer being out or not healthy really hurts. Robinson is just inconsistent. White is not a nickel DB. He's more a starter or dime guy. More physical than quick. Harper is usless in coverage. Jenkins frankly just doesn't look good period. Lofton has been solid not spectacular. Casillas looks like the best OLB at times. Shanle is Shanle. I understand the bend don't break style with the talent on defense and because of the talent on offense. You only have so many chances to get it right in an NFL season. The Saints are 0-2 with losing to two lesser teams. Whatever it takes, the have to get it right soon or this season is done.

Re: Spagnolo
 

Spuds will never get to implement his defense with the players he has available to him, IMO his job is to get the best people on the field and make this defense competitive and keep the offense from having to pass every down to play catch up. Bench Twinkie and start Hicks and that would be a good start. If the front four can't generate pressure on the QB it's going to be a long season. There is no NFL defense that can cover opposing WR for 5 or 6 seconds, have to generate a pass rush.

Re: Spagnolo
 

At the expense of some of our offensive prowess, only then will our defense improve. Spag's needs a little heftier check book than what he has now. That and time, just like what everyone is stating, he needs a chance, (has a pedigree) and deserves it!! All will be well.

Re: Spagnolo
 

Jimmy Johnson was great in Philly, and their D has not been the same since he got sick and eventually passed away. JJ was a master D coord. I would think that Spags is similar, much like SP's pedigree.

Re: Spagnolo
 

Time will tell, can't go by what he did with the Giants. When with the Giants the defensive side of the ball was loaded with talent. Someone told me yea but he drafted JPP, yes he may have made the suggestion to draft him but he wasn't around to coach him.
He was a DC for 3 years and that's it, now he has his work cut out for him. They have money to spend just by getting rid of Sedric Twinkie Ellis and restructuring Will Smiths contract. How this the salary Cap I really don't know, could someone shed some light on this

Re: Spagnolo
 

Agree- man smith is passed his prime and ellis, pfft, he never was

Re: Spagnolo
 

Game 3 Spags show us what you got !

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He did and it wasn't much!!!!!!!!!