Saints O-Line (Stat Heavy)

TheOak · 09-20-2012, 12:03 PM

Many fail to recognize the value of a good o-line and the detriment caused by a poorly preforming o-line. So rather than say "we suck", I am more concerned why we suck.

The sentence rarely gets finished. "Drew threw another interception".. leaving out "while scrambling for his life"..

Drew
What was Brees doing in each of his 4 interceptions? My memory serves me on a few and he was scrambling.

3/4 interceptions in 4th qtr (playing catch up)
I can not find Stats on in/out pocket for INTs

Running Game
2012 stat break down
Right Sideline - 1 att / 3 YPC / 0 FirstDn
R-Side - 6 att / 4.2 YPC / 1 FirstDn
Middle- 16 att / 7.3 YPC / 6 FirstDn
L-Side - 11 att / 3.6 YPC / 2 FirstDn
Left Sideline- 2 att / 6 YPC / 1 FirstDn

Linemen:
RT - Strief
RG - Evans
C - De la Puenta
LG- Grubbs
LT Bushrod

By Back
Pierre Thomas
R-Side - 1 att / 9 YPC
Middle- 6 att / 14.3 YPC
L-Side - 5 att / 4.2 PYC
Left Sideline- 1 att / 11 YPC

Mark Ingram
Right Sideline- 1 att / 3 YPC
R-Side - 6 att / 3.2 YPC
Middle- 9 att / 3.2 YPC
L-Side - 5 att / 4.2 PYC
Left Sideline- 1 att / 1 YPC

Production vs Attempts
YPC in a given area shows production and how well Grubbs and De La Puenta open the hole.

Attempts show me who our play caller thinks is his strongest side or weaker side depending on how you look at it.

Why are our attempts down on Strief and Evans side?
We do not even run Pierre to the Right side.
We spread Ingram out but a YPC lower on the right side?

Are we telegraphing?
Where do you think its probably going when Pierre is in? Between De La Puenta and Grubbs? I am sure our opponents DT/LBs know that also

My Analysis and what I ask:
Why are we not rushing more to the right to keep the RDE and RDT honest? Having played o-line and d-line, the running game is what keeps a DT from getting too deep of penetration, if the RB cuts back to the right he is behind you. I also as a DT know that if your offense runs Left 90% of the time I am going to crash and go right after the QB every play and let the LB fill the gap if its one of the 10% runs.

We apparently have a crapload of faith running behind Bushrod and Grubbs and not so much behind Evans and Strief.

Dissect, comment, enjoy.

lumm0x · 09-21-2012, 10:19 AM

Nice work. Bottom line is Evans-Grubbs is the strength of our line and Thomas and Ingram are better between the tackles rushers. That is where we are succeeding and where we need to continue the pounding. Screens can develop easily off of inside play action as well. We need offensive balance.

Mardigras9 · 09-21-2012, 10:25 AM

Originally Posted by x626xBlack

The sentence rarely gets finished. "Drew threw another interception".. leaving out "while scrambling for his life"..

Now that is certainly an accurate statement.

The Dude · 09-21-2012, 11:15 AM

Doesn't look like the Nicks trade made that much of a difference, yet some people have been blaming all of our offensive woes on the trade.

TheOak · 09-21-2012, 11:56 AM

Originally Posted by The Dude

Doesn't look like the Nicks trade made that much of a difference, yet some people have been blaming all of our offensive woes on the trade.

They also like to blame Drews hold out as the reason he is a little off kilter with his receivers.

The only argument that can be made against that is as follows:

2011 (no off season for Drew)

Single season passing leader – 5,476 yards (2011)
Highest completion percentage, season – 71.2% (2011)
Most Seasons with 5000+ passing yards - 2 (2008 & 2011)
Most completions in a season – 468 (2011)
Most 400+ completion seasons, career – 4 (2007, 2008, 2010, 2011)
Most consecutive 400+ completion seasons, career – 2 (2007-2008; 2010-2011)
Most consecutive 350+ completion seasons, career – 6 (2006-2011)
Most consecutive seasons with 4000+ passing yards – 6 (2006-2011; tied with Peyton Manning)
Most games with more than 70% pass completion rate, season (minimum 20 attempts per game) - 10 (2011)
Most games, 250+ yards passing, season - 16 (2011)
Most 300+ yard passing games in a season – 13 (2011)
Most games, 350+ yards passing, season - 8 (2011)
Most TD passes over 70+ yards - 12 (2006-2011) - Tied with Brett Favre
Most passing yards in a season in away games - 2,852 (2011)
Most games with 30+ completions, season – 9 (2011)
Most passing yards per game, season – 342.25 yards/game (2011)
Most passing completions per game, season – 29.25 comp/game (2011)
Most pass attempts in a playoff game with zero interceptions – 60 (at Seattle, 1/8/2011)[28]
Most pass completions in a playoff game with zero interceptions – 39 (at Seattle, 1/8/2011)[2

Got tired of copy/paste... there is more

So ummm yea... Lack of an off season hurt Drew.

Shoe. · 09-21-2012, 11:56 AM

Originally Posted by The Dude

Doesn't look like the Nicks trade made that much of a difference, yet some people have been blaming all of our offensive woes on the trade.

Grubbs is looking like a more than adequate replacement for Nicks, but I think now we're finding out how much Nicks really was helping Bushrod last year.

Its not that it was a bad trade (It wasn't, although I doubt any Who Dats wanted to see it happen) but to say it hasn't made any difference one way or the other would also be an inaccuracy. The O-line clearly isn't what it was in years past, but part of that could be Kromer's double-duty

Jamessr · 09-21-2012, 12:30 PM

Love the stats. However the 0-2 really screams the loudest right now.

TheOak · 09-21-2012, 12:47 PM

Originally Posted by Jamessr

Love the stats. However the 0-2 really screams the loudest right now.

Yeppers! Like I said... the nut shell says we suck... I wanted to get down to the nut.

Also my post may create some situational awareness when watching the game.... Actually you could stand in a bar and when PT gets in the back field throw out a bet, PT Middle Left... $50! Chances are, you will have your tab covered lol.

SaintsBro · 09-21-2012, 01:40 PM

Originally Posted by x626xBlack

Are we telegraphing?

^^^^This. I think we are.

This is sorta is what I have been saying since preseason -- that if I can sit there in the stands with my beer and peanuts and my roster and figure out what the Saints are gonna do on certain plays and formations, if a yokel like me can see it coming, then who knows what even an average NFL defensive coordinator can do, to pick that apart and beat it. That's a problem!

They are too predictable. It feels to me like they're running last year's offense -- mid last year's offense -- sorta unchanged. And defenses THIS YEAR can definitely scheme for that and disrupt it. They can also look at Carmichael's playcalling from last year and get a sense now of what he likes to do, which teams didn't have last year when the Saints were on that awesome roll with (then unknown, mystery wizard) Pete Carmichael calling the offensive plays.

I think this is a serious "no Payton" problem. I truly believe he would have had some wrinkle or new evolution to it, to keep it fresh, but did not get time to devise or install it. By that I mean the whole offense, not just the run game or O-line.

Crusader · 09-21-2012, 04:24 PM

Threads like this is why I love this forum. Great job!

09-20-2012, 12:03 PM	#1
TheOak 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Cypress Tx. Posts: 19,019	Saints O-Line (Stat Heavy) Many fail to recognize the value of a good o-line and the detriment caused by a poorly preforming o-line. So rather than say "we suck", I am more concerned why we suck. The sentence rarely gets finished. "Drew threw another interception".. leaving out "while scrambling for his life".. Drew What was Brees doing in each of his 4 interceptions? My memory serves me on a few and he was scrambling. 3/4 interceptions in 4th qtr (playing catch up) I can not find Stats on in/out pocket for INTs Running Game 2012 stat break down Right Sideline - 1 att / 3 YPC / 0 FirstDn R-Side - 6 att / 4.2 YPC / 1 FirstDn Middle- 16 att / 7.3 YPC / 6 FirstDn L-Side - 11 att / 3.6 YPC / 2 FirstDn Left Sideline- 2 att / 6 YPC / 1 FirstDn Linemen: RT - Strief RG - Evans C - De la Puenta LG- Grubbs LT Bushrod By Back Pierre Thomas R-Side - 1 att / 9 YPC Middle- 6 att / 14.3 YPC L-Side - 5 att / 4.2 PYC Left Sideline- 1 att / 11 YPC Mark Ingram Right Sideline- 1 att / 3 YPC R-Side - 6 att / 3.2 YPC Middle- 9 att / 3.2 YPC L-Side - 5 att / 4.2 PYC Left Sideline- 1 att / 1 YPC Production vs Attempts YPC in a given area shows production and how well Grubbs and De La Puenta open the hole. Attempts show me who our play caller thinks is his strongest side or weaker side depending on how you look at it. Why are our attempts down on Strief and Evans side? We do not even run Pierre to the Right side. We spread Ingram out but a YPC lower on the right side? Are we telegraphing? Where do you think its probably going when Pierre is in? Between De La Puenta and Grubbs? I am sure our opponents DT/LBs know that also My Analysis and what I ask: Why are we not rushing more to the right to keep the RDE and RDT honest? Having played o-line and d-line, the running game is what keeps a DT from getting too deep of penetration, if the RB cuts back to the right he is behind you. I also as a DT know that if your offense runs Left 90% of the time I am going to crash and go right after the QB every play and let the LB fill the gap if its one of the 10% runs. We apparently have a crapload of faith running behind Bushrod and Grubbs and not so much behind Evans and Strief. Dissect, comment, enjoy. lumm0x, Crusader, Belair57 and 1 others like this.
	It's not what you look at that matters, it's what you see. ~ Henry David Thoreau Last edited by TheOak; 09-20-2012 at 12:09 PM..

09-21-2012, 10:19 AM	#2
lumm0x Resident antediluvian Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 2,026	Re: Saints O-Line (Stat Heavy) Nice work. Bottom line is Evans-Grubbs is the strength of our line and Thomas and Ingram are better between the tackles rushers. That is where we are succeeding and where we need to continue the pounding. Screens can develop easily off of inside play action as well. We need offensive balance.

09-21-2012, 10:25 AM	#3
Mardigras9 Site Donor 2015 Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Land Mass between LA and AL Posts: 4,375	Re: Saints O-Line (Stat Heavy) Originally Posted by x626xBlack The sentence rarely gets finished. "Drew threw another interception".. leaving out "while scrambling for his life".. Now that is certainly an accurate statement.

09-21-2012, 11:15 AM	#4
The Dude 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 9,048	Re: Saints O-Line (Stat Heavy) Doesn't look like the Nicks trade made that much of a difference, yet some people have been blaming all of our offensive woes on the trade.
The Dude 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 9,048

09-21-2012, 11:56 AM	#5
TheOak 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Cypress Tx. Posts: 19,019	Re: Saints O-Line (Stat Heavy) Originally Posted by The Dude Doesn't look like the Nicks trade made that much of a difference, yet some people have been blaming all of our offensive woes on the trade. They also like to blame Drews hold out as the reason he is a little off kilter with his receivers. The only argument that can be made against that is as follows: 2011 (no off season for Drew) Single season passing leader – 5,476 yards (2011) Highest completion percentage, season – 71.2% (2011) Most Seasons with 5000+ passing yards - 2 (2008 & 2011) Most completions in a season – 468 (2011) Most 400+ completion seasons, career – 4 (2007, 2008, 2010, 2011) Most consecutive 400+ completion seasons, career – 2 (2007-2008; 2010-2011) Most consecutive 350+ completion seasons, career – 6 (2006-2011) Most consecutive seasons with 4000+ passing yards – 6 (2006-2011; tied with Peyton Manning) Most games with more than 70% pass completion rate, season (minimum 20 attempts per game) - 10 (2011) Most games, 250+ yards passing, season - 16 (2011) Most 300+ yard passing games in a season – 13 (2011) Most games, 350+ yards passing, season - 8 (2011) Most TD passes over 70+ yards - 12 (2006-2011) - Tied with Brett Favre Most passing yards in a season in away games - 2,852 (2011) Most games with 30+ completions, season – 9 (2011) Most passing yards per game, season – 342.25 yards/game (2011) Most passing completions per game, season – 29.25 comp/game (2011) Most pass attempts in a playoff game with zero interceptions – 60 (at Seattle, 1/8/2011)[28] Most pass completions in a playoff game with zero interceptions – 39 (at Seattle, 1/8/2011)[2 Got tired of copy/paste... there is more So ummm yea... Lack of an off season hurt Drew.
	It's not what you look at that matters, it's what you see. ~ Henry David Thoreau

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09-21-2012, 11:56 AM	#6
Shoe. 500th Post Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Hub City Posts: 576	Re: Saints O-Line (Stat Heavy) Originally Posted by The Dude Doesn't look like the Nicks trade made that much of a difference, yet some people have been blaming all of our offensive woes on the trade. Grubbs is looking like a more than adequate replacement for Nicks, but I think now we're finding out how much Nicks really was helping Bushrod last year. Its not that it was a bad trade (It wasn't, although I doubt any Who Dats wanted to see it happen) but to say it hasn't made any difference one way or the other would also be an inaccuracy. The O-line clearly isn't what it was in years past, but part of that could be Kromer's double-duty

09-21-2012, 12:30 PM	#7
Jamessr 1000 Posts + Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Newport News, VA Posts: 1,583	Re: Saints O-Line (Stat Heavy) Love the stats. However the 0-2 really screams the loudest right now.

09-21-2012, 12:47 PM	#8
TheOak 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Cypress Tx. Posts: 19,019	Re: Saints O-Line (Stat Heavy) Originally Posted by Jamessr Love the stats. However the 0-2 really screams the loudest right now. Yeppers! Like I said... the nut shell says we suck... I wanted to get down to the nut. Also my post may create some situational awareness when watching the game.... Actually you could stand in a bar and when PT gets in the back field throw out a bet, PT Middle Left... $50! Chances are, you will have your tab covered lol.

09-21-2012, 01:40 PM	#9
SaintsBro Site Donor Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: in line with my ridiculous CLEAR PLASTIC BAG Posts: 3,650 Blog Entries: 3	Re: Saints O-Line (Stat Heavy) Originally Posted by x626xBlack Are we telegraphing? ^^^^This. I think we are. This is sorta is what I have been saying since preseason -- that if I can sit there in the stands with my beer and peanuts and my roster and figure out what the Saints are gonna do on certain plays and formations, if a yokel like me can see it coming, then who knows what even an average NFL defensive coordinator can do, to pick that apart and beat it. That's a problem! They are too predictable. It feels to me like they're running last year's offense -- mid last year's offense -- sorta unchanged. And defenses THIS YEAR can definitely scheme for that and disrupt it. They can also look at Carmichael's playcalling from last year and get a sense now of what he likes to do, which teams didn't have last year when the Saints were on that awesome roll with (then unknown, mystery wizard) Pete Carmichael calling the offensive plays. I think this is a serious "no Payton" problem. I truly believe he would have had some wrinkle or new evolution to it, to keep it fresh, but did not get time to devise or install it. By that I mean the whole offense, not just the run game or O-line. ChrisXVI likes this.

09-21-2012, 04:24 PM	#10
Crusader Resident Swede Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Märsta, Sweden Posts: 8,017	Re: Saints O-Line (Stat Heavy) Threads like this is why I love this forum. Great job!