CORNER POSITION
 

I love the mentality of keeping the core of the team. The DL makes our linebackers much more productive. Hopefully, Watson will start at linebacker. After he gets the experience of playing 6 regular season games, he will be a great attribute. The only question i have is our Corner back postion. I hear Mel Mitchell will be competing with Bellamy at the safety spot. Tebucky needed to get used to our system; he showed a lot of dedication coming to camp 18 pounds lighter. Who is this Craft guy? Was he productive with the jaquars? we needed a shut down corner. Thomas is a solid CB, but the other three competing for the job are a qustion mark. We know Ambrose has the experience and talent; but he is lacking speed. I hope we dont resort to a soft zone defense. What is yall's take on the CB position? I hope our depht and speed on the DL will put some pressure on the QB. Last year, every time we blitzed with our LB they were picked up.

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Yeah, us and about 25 other teams. It\'s not like these guys drop off trees.

CORNER POSITION
 

B&B, I agree with you so much that i\'m gonna challenge you to come up with 7 true shut down corners. I just don\'t think any are out there. Is Bailey this type of CB? Not in my mind. I haven\'t watched a lot of games with him, but, when I think of Shutdown CB, I think of Deon Sanders. I don\'t see Bailey as beeing that much of a threat.

Maybe I\'m forgetting someone, but I don\'t think anyone even comes close to being the threat Deon was. (I am no Deon fan, but I can respect a player for his ability and talent.) He was so good that QBs would completely ignore his side of the field. When the QB did dare to throw his way...interception for TD. I saw many games go that way while he was in his prime.

Anyway, I still believe we could use at least one more good CB, but the whole \"shutdown corner\" thing is a pipe-dream.

[Edited on 3/8/2004 by ScottyRo]

CORNER POSITION
 

I think too many people confuse shutdown corner with a good man-coverage corner. Now it seems that any CB who plays really good man coverage is labeled a shut-down CB. Thats not what I think a shut-down CB is.

I also don\'t think there are any true shut-down CB\'s in the league today. There are several really good man CB\'s though.

CORNER POSITION
 

Since the current NFL system won\'t allow for a true \"shut-down corner\", I\'ll give you a short list of players I consider elite corners and could be \"shut-down corners\", if the rules weren\'t so slanted in favor of the receivers:
1. Champ Bailey
2. Darren Woodson
3. Patrick Surtain
4. Ty Law
5. Chris McAlister
Watch out for Trufant and Newman this year, also.

CORNER POSITION
 

I\'ll give you those assuming you mean Charles Woodson, not Darren, except Surtain. I\'ve never thought of Surtain on that elite level.

So, remind me what is the difference in the NFL rules between the last couple of years and Deons era. I know they are going to watch for the grabbing more this season, but that doesn\'t affect this discussion yet.

I seem to remember that they were going to start enforcing something more in the hopes of elevating scoring, but I can\'t recall what it is.

CORNER POSITION
 

Here are the true shut down corners of the NFL:

Ashley Ambrose
Freddy Thomas

Throw a pass their way, and they simply shut down, while the receiver hauls in the TD!!



(j/k, I\"m an optimist)

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Yeah, I meant Charles, I was in a hurry to get out for lunch.

http://www.nfl.com/fans/rules/passinterference

Just looking at the rules, I seem to remember quite a few calls made last year that, according to the rulebook, shouldn\'t have been called (judgment made by the ref as to whether or not the defender is playing the ball). And I see stipulations made under the rules, where pass interference shouldn\'t be called, but have been (inadvertant tangling of the feet is a big one). It seems that if the call is even remotely questionable, the ref will make the call in favor of the Receiver.
As far as Surtain is concerned, he\'s got the skills, and he did unseat Sam Madison as the #1 CB for the Dolphins, who in his own right is a good CB. I guess he would be a judgement call.

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ok, maybe this will help you on my quote \"we need a shutdown corner\"

we need an average corner. there are plenty of talented corners that were out on the market. could bobby tayler or vincent help our defense. all i am saying is \"who in the hll is craft?\"

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Mark my words, Taylor was good with the Eagles because of who was around him (Vincent, Dawkins). Notice he went to team with good talent in the secondary as well (Hamlin, Trufant).

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if we offered the $$$, he would have accepted. what is your take on shawn springs or buchanan? there were so many good corners in the off-season, and we picked up a no-name. hopefully the DL was our answer on defense. ambrose will be a nickel back, craft will start. champ baily is a shut down corner, along charles woodsen......

CORNER POSITION
 

Well that\'s a well chronicled issue.

As I said it has been much discussed. Ideally we could have drafted an elite corner. But there were only two
in the draft (Robinson and Hall) and they were well gone. Trading for one would break the bank both in terms of personel and of money. Also it\'s debatable if any of the ones that have been traded (Bailey in particular) could have improved the defense so much as to justify the cost. Remember that Washington got Portis out of the deal.

Everyone has been talking about McKenzie. But on all accounts the guy will be trouble. He\'ll cost a lot to acquire. He\'ll cost a lot to pay. And frankly his behavior in Green Bay (pay me, trade me, or I\'ll sit) isn\'t the kind of drama that the Saints need right now.

It\'s my opinion that there\'s no cost effective way to get a top flight corner. The last chance for that was when we passed on Trufant in 2003 to get Sully, who hasn\'t yet proved his worth.

And BTW the Bucs have gotten to (and won) the Super Bowl playing that umbrella cover two style zone. It can work with the right ingredients.
I don\'t see it happening as much this year. Our front four should be able to occupy 5 linemen and generate push. One of the buck positions, probably one of the Smiths, should be able to get loose.

SFIAH

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The way Jones and Craft are playing now, I think the secondary is going to be fine. We all know about Thomas and don\'t forget Mitchell at 100% and Craver showing up like he wants to play or is that Brown. Ambrose is steady even if he is a step slow, has the experience. Bellamy better get better or Mitchell will take his job.

I think everything will be OK and don\'t forget the McKenzie rumor came back today.

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Alright, since I\'m back, I\'ll put in my two cents here.

There is no such thing as a shut down corner - at least as is standardly understood - and I\'m willing to bet there NEVER has been.

I very much like the idea of putting corners into groups:
(1) Solid man to man
(2) Solid zone (i.e. good short range coverage but needs help often)
(3) Solid run cover
(4) 2 & 3
(5) 1 & 2
(6) 1, 2 & 3

There are very group 6 corners in the league. I think that Ambrose and Thomas are in group 4, but they are the best corners we have right now (I\'m suspending judgement on Craft until he\'s played a game). What people want us to do is get a group 5 or 6 corner. However, wisdom about the board is this: we need at least one more group 4 corner.