CORNER POSITION

steelcurtain5757 · 08-03-2004, 10:11 AM

I love the mentality of keeping the core of the team. The DL makes our linebackers much more productive. Hopefully, Watson will start at linebacker. After he gets the experience of playing 6 regular season games, he will be a great attribute. The only question i have is our Corner back postion. I hear Mel Mitchell will be competing with Bellamy at the safety spot. Tebucky needed to get used to our system; he showed a lot of dedication coming to camp 18 pounds lighter. Who is this Craft guy? Was he productive with the jaquars? we needed a shut down corner. Thomas is a solid CB, but the other three competing for the job are a qustion mark. We know Ambrose has the experience and talent; but he is lacking speed. I hope we dont resort to a soft zone defense. What is yall's take on the CB position? I hope our depht and speed on the DL will put some pressure on the QB. Last year, every time we blitzed with our LB they were picked up.

BlackandBlue · 08-03-2004, 11:14 AM

we needed a shut down corner.

Yeah, us and about 25 other teams. It\'s not like these guys drop off trees.

ScottyRo · 08-03-2004, 12:35 PM

B&B, I agree with you so much that i\'m gonna challenge you to come up with 7 true shut down corners. I just don\'t think any are out there. Is Bailey this type of CB? Not in my mind. I haven\'t watched a lot of games with him, but, when I think of Shutdown CB, I think of Deon Sanders. I don\'t see Bailey as beeing that much of a threat.

Maybe I\'m forgetting someone, but I don\'t think anyone even comes close to being the threat Deon was. (I am no Deon fan, but I can respect a player for his ability and talent.) He was so good that QBs would completely ignore his side of the field. When the QB did dare to throw his way...interception for TD. I saw many games go that way while he was in his prime.

Anyway, I still believe we could use at least one more good CB, but the whole \"shutdown corner\" thing is a pipe-dream.

[Edited on 3/8/2004 by ScottyRo]

Danno · 08-03-2004, 12:40 PM

I think too many people confuse shutdown corner with a good man-coverage corner. Now it seems that any CB who plays really good man coverage is labeled a shut-down CB. Thats not what I think a shut-down CB is.

I also don\'t think there are any true shut-down CB\'s in the league today. There are several really good man CB\'s though.

BlackandBlue · 08-03-2004, 01:25 PM

Since the current NFL system won\'t allow for a true \"shut-down corner\", I\'ll give you a short list of players I consider elite corners and could be \"shut-down corners\", if the rules weren\'t so slanted in favor of the receivers:
1. Champ Bailey
2. Darren Woodson
3. Patrick Surtain
4. Ty Law
5. Chris McAlister
Watch out for Trufant and Newman this year, also.

ScottyRo · 08-03-2004, 01:58 PM

I\'ll give you those assuming you mean Charles Woodson, not Darren, except Surtain. I\'ve never thought of Surtain on that elite level.

So, remind me what is the difference in the NFL rules between the last couple of years and Deons era. I know they are going to watch for the grabbing more this season, but that doesn\'t affect this discussion yet.

I seem to remember that they were going to start enforcing something more in the hopes of elevating scoring, but I can\'t recall what it is.

dberce1 · 08-03-2004, 02:08 PM

Here are the true shut down corners of the NFL:

Ashley Ambrose
Freddy Thomas

Throw a pass their way, and they simply shut down, while the receiver hauls in the TD!!

(j/k, I\"m an optimist)

BlackandBlue · 08-03-2004, 02:23 PM

Yeah, I meant Charles, I was in a hurry to get out for lunch.

http://www.nfl.com/fans/rules/passinterference

Just looking at the rules, I seem to remember quite a few calls made last year that, according to the rulebook, shouldn\'t have been called (judgment made by the ref as to whether or not the defender is playing the ball). And I see stipulations made under the rules, where pass interference shouldn\'t be called, but have been (inadvertant tangling of the feet is a big one). It seems that if the call is even remotely questionable, the ref will make the call in favor of the Receiver.
As far as Surtain is concerned, he\'s got the skills, and he did unseat Sam Madison as the #1 CB for the Dolphins, who in his own right is a good CB. I guess he would be a judgement call.

steelcurtain5757 · 08-03-2004, 02:45 PM

ok, maybe this will help you on my quote \"we need a shutdown corner\"

we need an average corner. there are plenty of talented corners that were out on the market. could bobby tayler or vincent help our defense. all i am saying is \"who in the hll is craft?\"

BlackandBlue · 08-03-2004, 02:49 PM

Mark my words, Taylor was good with the Eagles because of who was around him (Vincent, Dawkins). Notice he went to team with good talent in the secondary as well (Hamlin, Trufant).

08-03-2004, 10:11 AM	#1
steelcurtain5757 Rookie Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 5	CORNER POSITION I love the mentality of keeping the core of the team. The DL makes our linebackers much more productive. Hopefully, Watson will start at linebacker. After he gets the experience of playing 6 regular season games, he will be a great attribute. The only question i have is our Corner back postion. I hear Mel Mitchell will be competing with Bellamy at the safety spot. Tebucky needed to get used to our system; he showed a lot of dedication coming to camp 18 pounds lighter. Who is this Craft guy? Was he productive with the jaquars? we needed a shut down corner. Thomas is a solid CB, but the other three competing for the job are a qustion mark. We know Ambrose has the experience and talent; but he is lacking speed. I hope we dont resort to a soft zone defense. What is yall's take on the CB position? I hope our depht and speed on the DL will put some pressure on the QB. Last year, every time we blitzed with our LB they were picked up.
steelcurtain5757 Rookie Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 5

08-03-2004, 11:14 AM	#2
BlackandBlue Kinder, gentler Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: dirty south Posts: 3,889	CORNER POSITION we needed a shut down corner. Yeah, us and about 25 other teams. It\'s not like these guys drop off trees.

08-03-2004, 12:35 PM	#3
ScottyRo 1000 Posts + Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Williamsburg, VA (ugh, the food here) Posts: 1,704	CORNER POSITION B&B, I agree with you so much that i\'m gonna challenge you to come up with 7 true shut down corners. I just don\'t think any are out there. Is Bailey this type of CB? Not in my mind. I haven\'t watched a lot of games with him, but, when I think of Shutdown CB, I think of Deon Sanders. I don\'t see Bailey as beeing that much of a threat. Maybe I\'m forgetting someone, but I don\'t think anyone even comes close to being the threat Deon was. (I am no Deon fan, but I can respect a player for his ability and talent.) He was so good that QBs would completely ignore his side of the field. When the QB did dare to throw his way...interception for TD. I saw many games go that way while he was in his prime. Anyway, I still believe we could use at least one more good CB, but the whole \"shutdown corner\" thing is a pipe-dream. [Edited on 3/8/2004 by ScottyRo]

08-03-2004, 12:40 PM	#4
Danno Truth Addict Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Spanish Fort, AL (via NO and B/R) Posts: 24,720	CORNER POSITION I think too many people confuse shutdown corner with a good man-coverage corner. Now it seems that any CB who plays really good man coverage is labeled a shut-down CB. Thats not what I think a shut-down CB is. I also don\'t think there are any true shut-down CB\'s in the league today. There are several really good man CB\'s though.

08-03-2004, 01:25 PM	#5
BlackandBlue Kinder, gentler Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: dirty south Posts: 3,889	CORNER POSITION Since the current NFL system won\'t allow for a true \"shut-down corner\", I\'ll give you a short list of players I consider elite corners and could be \"shut-down corners\", if the rules weren\'t so slanted in favor of the receivers: 1. Champ Bailey 2. Darren Woodson 3. Patrick Surtain 4. Ty Law 5. Chris McAlister Watch out for Trufant and Newman this year, also.

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08-03-2004, 01:58 PM	#6
ScottyRo 1000 Posts + Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Williamsburg, VA (ugh, the food here) Posts: 1,704	CORNER POSITION I\'ll give you those assuming you mean Charles Woodson, not Darren, except Surtain. I\'ve never thought of Surtain on that elite level. So, remind me what is the difference in the NFL rules between the last couple of years and Deons era. I know they are going to watch for the grabbing more this season, but that doesn\'t affect this discussion yet. I seem to remember that they were going to start enforcing something more in the hopes of elevating scoring, but I can\'t recall what it is.

08-03-2004, 02:08 PM	#7
dberce1 Chuck Liddells Right Hand Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Prairieville, Louisiana Posts: 1,227	CORNER POSITION Here are the true shut down corners of the NFL: Ashley Ambrose Freddy Thomas Throw a pass their way, and they simply shut down, while the receiver hauls in the TD!! (j/k, I\"m an optimist)

08-03-2004, 02:23 PM	#8
BlackandBlue Kinder, gentler Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: dirty south Posts: 3,889	CORNER POSITION Yeah, I meant Charles, I was in a hurry to get out for lunch. http://www.nfl.com/fans/rules/passinterference Just looking at the rules, I seem to remember quite a few calls made last year that, according to the rulebook, shouldn\'t have been called (judgment made by the ref as to whether or not the defender is playing the ball). And I see stipulations made under the rules, where pass interference shouldn\'t be called, but have been (inadvertant tangling of the feet is a big one). It seems that if the call is even remotely questionable, the ref will make the call in favor of the Receiver. As far as Surtain is concerned, he\'s got the skills, and he did unseat Sam Madison as the #1 CB for the Dolphins, who in his own right is a good CB. I guess he would be a judgement call.
	The waiting drove me mad.... I don't want to hear from those that know... Everything has changed, absolutely nothing's changed Eddie is a....draftnik?

08-03-2004, 02:45 PM	#9
steelcurtain5757 Rookie Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 5	CORNER POSITION ok, maybe this will help you on my quote \"we need a shutdown corner\" we need an average corner. there are plenty of talented corners that were out on the market. could bobby tayler or vincent help our defense. all i am saying is \"who in the hll is craft?\"
steelcurtain5757 Rookie Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 5

08-03-2004, 02:49 PM	#10
BlackandBlue Kinder, gentler Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: dirty south Posts: 3,889	CORNER POSITION Mark my words, Taylor was good with the Eagles because of who was around him (Vincent, Dawkins). Notice he went to team with good talent in the secondary as well (Hamlin, Trufant).