Trade Value and Package

FinSaint · 10-06-2012, 07:24 AM

Originally Posted by halloween 65

I would love to have a nose tackle to take Ellis's spot, a Demarecus Ware to take Smiths spot, or a thumper FS to take Jenkins spot. Lord knows I would love to have a second coming of the Dome Patrol. I would package those 3 for any of the above position players, now for Ingram and Smith that could have has value we might could offer them for Jarrod Allen . I would love that. Jenkins and Ellis you might get the mascotts sweatty socks for that pair. I just don't see a great DT sent to us for any of those but possibly a DE. Still no push up the middle. I feel your pain!!

There's no way the Vikes would accept that trade.

Their backfield has been revamped and is looking very good at the moment, so I don't think they'd want a DB from the Saints, unless it was either Greer or Robinson. They have 3 young starter caliber safeties (Smith, Raymond, Sanford) who have really performed well so far, so I don't think they would want Jenkins and certainly not Harper.

Also, they have no need for a RB since Peterson has made an almost miracle recovery to form after the big injury he received late last season. And they have Toby Gerhart to be the short yardage power back for the change of pace... and a very promising Matt Asiata as the third RB, who really flashed big time a couple of times during the preseason, and who the coaches reportedly are very high one for future.

And that defensive front 4 of theirs has been working really well this season, so I don't think they'd want to make any personnel changes to it, and while Allen's big salary could be seen as an incentive to trade him away - he is also one of the most popular players on that team, and he brings in a lot of fans and interest toward the team.

I know you were talking hypothetically... just spit-balling, but all I'm saying is that it would be hard for any team to get Allen from the Vikes, and it would be that for the Saints. It would probably take a Jimmy Graham package to make it work if the Saints really wanted Allen above all else.

halloween 65 · 10-06-2012, 10:10 AM

Originally Posted by FinSaint

There's no way the Vikes would accept that trade.

Their backfield has been revamped and is looking very good at the moment, so I don't think they'd want a DB from the Saints, unless it was either Greer or Robinson. They have 3 young starter caliber safeties (Smith, Raymond, Sanford) who have really performed well so far, so I don't think they would want Jenkins and certainly not Harper.

Also, they have no need for a RB since Peterson has made an almost miracle recovery to form after the big injury he received late last season. And they have Toby Gerhart to be the short yardage power back for the change of pace... and a very promising Matt Asiata as the third RB, who really flashed big time a couple of times during the preseason, and who the coaches reportedly are very high one for future.

And that defensive front 4 of theirs has been working really well this season, so I don't think they'd want to make any personnel changes to it, and while Allen's big salary could be seen as an incentive to trade him away - he is also one of the most popular players on that team, and he brings in a lot of fans and interest toward the team.

I know you were talking hypothetically... just spit-balling, but all I'm saying is that it would be hard for any team to get Allen from the Vikes, and it would be that for the Saints. It would probably take a Jimmy Graham package to make it work if the Saints really wanted Allen above all else.

It''s wishful thinking, wishing, dreaming,could be a little insanity creeping in, I just want my DEFENSE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

jeanpierre · 10-07-2012, 12:35 AM

Best trade value and smartest move - though most unpopular...

Pierre Thomas -

What makes him attractive?

Established, flexible running back who can contribute in any offense because of his multiple skill set and friendly cap number...

Why keep him?

He's very reliable; no one run's the screen better in the league than PT; though he's our highest paid running back, he's got a friend cap number...

What to expect for PT?

Nothing less than a Second Round Pick; and do the deal why Loomis is on hiatis 'cause Loomis gives it up like a b*tch in trades, not getting fair value in return...

Players I would trade in exchange -

FS Matt Giordano OAK
FS Robert Johnson TEN
LB Jonas Mouton SD
DE Mathias Kiwanuka NYG

jeanpierre · 10-07-2012, 11:17 AM

And we have to find a way to get back to drafting Defensive Ends that make the ProBowl at least in one decade...

TheOak · 10-08-2012, 03:13 PM

Originally Posted by jeanpierre

Best trade value and smartest move - though most unpopular...

Pierre Thomas -

What makes him attractive?

Established, flexible running back who can contribute in any offense because of his multiple skill set and friendly cap number...

Why keep him?

He's very reliable; no one run's the screen better in the league than PT; though he's our highest paid running back, he's got a friend cap number...

What to expect for PT?

Nothing less than a Second Round Pick; and do the deal why Loomis is on hiatis 'cause Loomis gives it up like a b*tch in trades, not getting fair value in return...

Players I would trade in exchange -

FS Matt Giordano OAK
FS Robert Johnson TEN
LB Jonas Mouton SD
DE Mathias Kiwanuka NYG

You do not trade an "in prime" player for a "project" unless you have two at that position, which we do not... And trading an "in prime" player for the draft lottery is a HUGE gamble that what you want will be available and that he will be what you think he is..

PT for whats behind curtain #2 would not be a wise choice.

SaintsBro · 10-08-2012, 04:02 PM

I know some may disagree with this assessment, but I really honestly don't think that a lot of teams out there would want to pony up big picks or big players in a trade for Pierre Thomas... He is tremendously under rated around the league, and while WE all know he's great, in the big picture he's just... not a very hot commodity and not really on other people's radar out there. He never gets mentioned in any conversation about running backs. Went undrafted. Not really from a school people know. Gets 500, 600 yards rushing in a season, which is not really that special, on paper compared to well known, big name, every-down backs. Was injured for a while and people kind of forgot about him.

If you didn't watch him every Sunday, or really know football, most people would probably look at Pierre on paper and think he was just another pedestrian sort of middle-tier running back who can catch a little bit, running behind that great Saints O-line making him look good (I'm not saying I believe this, but this is how people "out there" think about the Saints). If you were a clueless coach or GM, and didn't really know how the Saints and Sean Payton do things, you might even assume that big-name, well-known Mark Ingram was brought in specifically because Pierre wasn't really all that good or that there was something wrong with him.

Sorry, I just don't see it likely that many teams out there would look at Pierre and be like OMG PIERRE THOMAS IS OUR MISSING PIECE, THE GUY WE'VE GOT TO GET and giving up anything significant or major to get him.

Shoe. · 10-08-2012, 04:11 PM

Until Ingram does some things on the field to make people sit up and take notice he'll never be worth much on the 'block IMO.

Like a few others out there, I'm a believer that he hasn't been put in the most ideal positions to shine, as per his talents, but at the end of the day it really makes no difference. Its horrendously, completely unfairly simple: take the ball, make something happen. And until he does that with what he's given I don't think he'll ever be worth much to anybody else. Just my couple cents

TheOak · 10-08-2012, 04:13 PM

I am just glad no one on this forum does our trading...

Brees, Coleston, PT,... all would be gone.

Shanle and cockroaches all that would be left.

vpheughan · 10-08-2012, 04:47 PM

If you can't generate a good pass rush(yes coach Mora, I know I wouldn't recognize a good pass rush if I saw one) with your front 4 it doesn't matter who you have behind them. On some of the plays Rivers had all night to find a receiver.

Budsdrinker · 10-09-2012, 11:38 AM

Originally Posted by Shoe.

Until Ingram does some things on the field to make people sit up and take notice he'll never be worth much on the 'block IMO.

Like a few others out there, I'm a believer that he hasn't been put in the most ideal positions to shine, as per his talents, but at the end of the day it really makes no difference. Its horrendously, completely unfairly simple: take the ball, make something happen. And until he does that with what he's given I don't think he'll ever be worth much to anybody else. Just my couple cents

Well Ingram did some things on the field Sunday night that probably went unnoticed. We came out with the heavy run formation with Ingram and Collins in the backfield a couple of times which was the perfect decoy. The Chargers brought 8 in the box and it left Devery in man coverage which he beat for a long gain on our last TD drive. If we continue to use Ingram on some pass plays it will show up on game tape and maybe he will not face as many 8 men in the box situations which will allow him more yards since defense will have to think about the pass a little more. We did this formation at least twice Sunday and it was successful both times.

10-06-2012, 07:24 AM	#21
FinSaint Site Donor 2015 Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Finland... formerly Southern Virginia Posts: 4,961	Re: Trade Value and Package Originally Posted by halloween 65 I would love to have a nose tackle to take Ellis's spot, a Demarecus Ware to take Smiths spot, or a thumper FS to take Jenkins spot. Lord knows I would love to have a second coming of the Dome Patrol. I would package those 3 for any of the above position players, now for Ingram and Smith that could have has value we might could offer them for Jarrod Allen . I would love that. Jenkins and Ellis you might get the mascotts sweatty socks for that pair. I just don't see a great DT sent to us for any of those but possibly a DE. Still no push up the middle. I feel your pain!! There's no way the Vikes would accept that trade. Their backfield has been revamped and is looking very good at the moment, so I don't think they'd want a DB from the Saints, unless it was either Greer or Robinson. They have 3 young starter caliber safeties (Smith, Raymond, Sanford) who have really performed well so far, so I don't think they would want Jenkins and certainly not Harper. Also, they have no need for a RB since Peterson has made an almost miracle recovery to form after the big injury he received late last season. And they have Toby Gerhart to be the short yardage power back for the change of pace... and a very promising Matt Asiata as the third RB, who really flashed big time a couple of times during the preseason, and who the coaches reportedly are very high one for future. And that defensive front 4 of theirs has been working really well this season, so I don't think they'd want to make any personnel changes to it, and while Allen's big salary could be seen as an incentive to trade him away - he is also one of the most popular players on that team, and he brings in a lot of fans and interest toward the team. I know you were talking hypothetically... just spit-balling, but all I'm saying is that it would be hard for any team to get Allen from the Vikes, and it would be that for the Saints. It would probably take a Jimmy Graham package to make it work if the Saints really wanted Allen above all else. SloMotion likes this.
	"I'm not bashing people, I'm bashing their opinions because in my opinion their opinion is wrong" - Danno

10-06-2012, 10:10 AM	#22
halloween 65 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Grand Haven, Michigan by way of a little Mississippi River town in Louisiana Posts: 5,893	Re: Trade Value and Package Originally Posted by FinSaint There's no way the Vikes would accept that trade. Their backfield has been revamped and is looking very good at the moment, so I don't think they'd want a DB from the Saints, unless it was either Greer or Robinson. They have 3 young starter caliber safeties (Smith, Raymond, Sanford) who have really performed well so far, so I don't think they would want Jenkins and certainly not Harper. Also, they have no need for a RB since Peterson has made an almost miracle recovery to form after the big injury he received late last season. And they have Toby Gerhart to be the short yardage power back for the change of pace... and a very promising Matt Asiata as the third RB, who really flashed big time a couple of times during the preseason, and who the coaches reportedly are very high one for future. And that defensive front 4 of theirs has been working really well this season, so I don't think they'd want to make any personnel changes to it, and while Allen's big salary could be seen as an incentive to trade him away - he is also one of the most popular players on that team, and he brings in a lot of fans and interest toward the team. I know you were talking hypothetically... just spit-balling, but all I'm saying is that it would be hard for any team to get Allen from the Vikes, and it would be that for the Saints. It would probably take a Jimmy Graham package to make it work if the Saints really wanted Allen above all else. It''s wishful thinking, wishing, dreaming,could be a little insanity creeping in, I just want my DEFENSE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

10-07-2012, 12:35 AM	#23
jeanpierre Site Donor 2018 Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Thibodaux Posts: 43,543 Blog Entries: 39	Re: Trade Value and Package Best trade value and smartest move - though most unpopular... Pierre Thomas - What makes him attractive? Established, flexible running back who can contribute in any offense because of his multiple skill set and friendly cap number... Why keep him? He's very reliable; no one run's the screen better in the league than PT; though he's our highest paid running back, he's got a friend cap number... What to expect for PT? Nothing less than a Second Round Pick; and do the deal why Loomis is on hiatis 'cause Loomis gives it up like a b*tch in trades, not getting fair value in return... Players I would trade in exchange - FS Matt Giordano OAK FS Robert Johnson TEN LB Jonas Mouton SD DE Mathias Kiwanuka NYG
	It's not that my way is the right way, I just make the right way my way...

10-07-2012, 11:17 AM	#24
jeanpierre Site Donor 2018 Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Thibodaux Posts: 43,543 Blog Entries: 39	Re: Trade Value and Package And we have to find a way to get back to drafting Defensive Ends that make the ProBowl at least in one decade...

10-08-2012, 03:13 PM	#25
TheOak 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Cypress Tx. Posts: 19,026	Re: Trade Value and Package Originally Posted by jeanpierre Best trade value and smartest move - though most unpopular... Pierre Thomas - What makes him attractive? Established, flexible running back who can contribute in any offense because of his multiple skill set and friendly cap number... Why keep him? He's very reliable; no one run's the screen better in the league than PT; though he's our highest paid running back, he's got a friend cap number... What to expect for PT? Nothing less than a Second Round Pick; and do the deal why Loomis is on hiatis 'cause Loomis gives it up like a b*tch in trades, not getting fair value in return... Players I would trade in exchange - FS Matt Giordano OAK FS Robert Johnson TEN LB Jonas Mouton SD DE Mathias Kiwanuka NYG You do not trade an "in prime" player for a "project" unless you have two at that position, which we do not... And trading an "in prime" player for the draft lottery is a HUGE gamble that what you want will be available and that he will be what you think he is.. PT for whats behind curtain #2 would not be a wise choice.

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10-08-2012, 04:02 PM	#26
SaintsBro Site Donor Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: in line with my ridiculous CLEAR PLASTIC BAG Posts: 3,650 Blog Entries: 3	Re: Trade Value and Package I know some may disagree with this assessment, but I really honestly don't think that a lot of teams out there would want to pony up big picks or big players in a trade for Pierre Thomas... He is tremendously under rated around the league, and while WE all know he's great, in the big picture he's just... not a very hot commodity and not really on other people's radar out there. He never gets mentioned in any conversation about running backs. Went undrafted. Not really from a school people know. Gets 500, 600 yards rushing in a season, which is not really that special, on paper compared to well known, big name, every-down backs. Was injured for a while and people kind of forgot about him. If you didn't watch him every Sunday, or really know football, most people would probably look at Pierre on paper and think he was just another pedestrian sort of middle-tier running back who can catch a little bit, running behind that great Saints O-line making him look good (I'm not saying I believe this, but this is how people "out there" think about the Saints). If you were a clueless coach or GM, and didn't really know how the Saints and Sean Payton do things, you might even assume that big-name, well-known Mark Ingram was brought in specifically because Pierre wasn't really all that good or that there was something wrong with him. Sorry, I just don't see it likely that many teams out there would look at Pierre and be like OMG PIERRE THOMAS IS OUR MISSING PIECE, THE GUY WE'VE GOT TO GET and giving up anything significant or major to get him.

10-08-2012, 04:11 PM	#27
Shoe. 500th Post Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Hub City Posts: 576	Re: Trade Value and Package Until Ingram does some things on the field to make people sit up and take notice he'll never be worth much on the 'block IMO. Like a few others out there, I'm a believer that he hasn't been put in the most ideal positions to shine, as per his talents, but at the end of the day it really makes no difference. Its horrendously, completely unfairly simple: take the ball, make something happen. And until he does that with what he's given I don't think he'll ever be worth much to anybody else. Just my couple cents

10-08-2012, 04:13 PM	#28
TheOak 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Cypress Tx. Posts: 19,026	Re: Trade Value and Package I am just glad no one on this forum does our trading... Brees, Coleston, PT,... all would be gone. Shanle and cockroaches all that would be left.

10-08-2012, 04:47 PM	#29
vpheughan 1000 Posts + Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 4,520	Re: Trade Value and Package If you can't generate a good pass rush(yes coach Mora, I know I wouldn't recognize a good pass rush if I saw one) with your front 4 it doesn't matter who you have behind them. On some of the plays Rivers had all night to find a receiver.
vpheughan 1000 Posts + Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 4,520

10-09-2012, 11:38 AM	#30
Budsdrinker A Cajun Transforming TX Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: The Woodlands, Texas Posts: 2,787	Re: Trade Value and Package Originally Posted by Shoe. Until Ingram does some things on the field to make people sit up and take notice he'll never be worth much on the 'block IMO. Like a few others out there, I'm a believer that he hasn't been put in the most ideal positions to shine, as per his talents, but at the end of the day it really makes no difference. Its horrendously, completely unfairly simple: take the ball, make something happen. And until he does that with what he's given I don't think he'll ever be worth much to anybody else. Just my couple cents Well Ingram did some things on the field Sunday night that probably went unnoticed. We came out with the heavy run formation with Ingram and Collins in the backfield a couple of times which was the perfect decoy. The Chargers brought 8 in the box and it left Devery in man coverage which he beat for a long gain on our last TD drive. If we continue to use Ingram on some pass plays it will show up on game tape and maybe he will not face as many 8 men in the box situations which will allow him more yards since defense will have to think about the pass a little more. We did this formation at least twice Sunday and it was successful both times. TheOak and Shoe. like this.

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