I didn't know Chris Ivory was activated to play last night!

Utah_Saint · 10-09-2012, 07:19 PM

Originally Posted by Radical

How do you guys figure we would have lost? The only points they scored was a FG after we knocked RGIII out, and then a long TD by Kirk do to a miscommunication by our safeties, which was also the only 3rd down they converted the whole game.

Ignoring the fact that tackles is a grossly overrated stat, it's because he wouldn't see that many snaps. Nicholas and Weatherspoon are better rush and coverage LBs, and in most of our games, Dent(our MLB) has seen less than 10 snaps.

Granted, he's a lot better than Dent, but it would be hard to justify a decent contract to a guy that will probably take most of the season to see more than 100 snaps.

Tackles are grossly over rated?!? I'm kind of a stat nerd but I've never heard anyone ever say that before. Is that new? Lots of tackles arent a good thing anymore?

When you say Weatherspoon is better at coverage what exactly do you mean? Are you using a metric to compare?
Since Weatherspoon has been in the league he's had 11 passes defended and 1 interception.
Over that time, Lofton has had 12 passes defended and 3 interceptions.

In that same time frame, Lofton has had 319 tackles. Weatherspoon has had only 194. That's less than two thirds of Loftons production. Not to mention the fact that Weatherspoon has one of the lowest tackling efficiency rates of all linebackers in the NFL.

From all that you conclude that the Falcons wouldn't have used Lofton more than 100 snaps in a season? Even Dent, who is having a very poor year statistically is trending to have more snaps than that. That sounds pretty far fetched don't ya think?

CharityMike · 10-09-2012, 07:22 PM

Originally Posted by Utah_Saint

Tackles are grossly over rated?!? I'm kind of a stat nerd but I've never heard anyone ever say that before. Is that new? Lots of tackles arent a good thing anymore?

When you say Weatherspoon is better at coverage what exactly do you mean? Are you using a metric to compare?
Since Weatherspoon has been in the league he's had 11 passes defended and 1 interception.
Over that time, Lofton has had 12 passes defended and 3 interceptions.

In that same time frame, Lofton has had 319 tackles. Weatherspoon has had only 194. That's less than two thirds of Loftons production. Not to mention the fact that Weatherspoon has one of the lowest tackling efficiency rates of all linebackers in the NFL.

From all that you conclude that the Falcons wouldn't have used Lofton more than 100 snaps in a season? Even Dent, who is having a very poor year statistically is trending to have more snaps than that. That sounds pretty far fetched don't ya think?

GET EM!!

Radical · 10-09-2012, 07:54 PM

Originally Posted by Utah_Saint

Tackles are grossly over rated?!? I'm kind of a stat nerd but I've never heard anyone ever say that before. Is that new? Lots of tackles arent a good thing anymore?

When you say Weatherspoon is better at coverage what exactly do you mean? Are you using a metric to compare?
Since Weatherspoon has been in the league he's had 11 passes defended and 1 interception.
Over that time, Lofton has had 12 passes defended and 3 interceptions.

In that same time frame, Lofton has had 319 tackles. Weatherspoon has had only 194. That's less than two thirds of Loftons production. Not to mention the fact that Weatherspoon has one of the lowest tackling efficiency rates of all linebackers in the NFL.

From all that you conclude that the Falcons wouldn't have used Lofton more than 100 snaps in a season? Even Dent, who is having a very poor year statistically is trending to have more snaps than that. That sounds pretty far fetched don't ya think?

Yes, number of tackles are an overrated stat, and it isn't new. The tackle stat doesn't provide context, at all. Is the player getting tackles after they just gave what should have been a defensed pass, because he took a poor pursuit angle and ended up tackling a ball carrier several yards later than he should have, or a myriad of other examples. It isn't necessarily a bad stat to have a high number of tackles, but it is doesn't really show how good or bad a player is.

My metric is PFF, which is endorsed by players, agents, and personnel around the league. Concerning Lofton though, one thing about him is that historically he's been mediocre in pass coverage, and really doesn't have an instinct for it. With Atlanta, he had to operate with "spot" coverage instead of a true zone. This is where you drop back to a specific spot on the field and hang there rather than playing a true zone where you have to consider depth and tracking players across an area. Weatherspoon last year was fantastic in all phases of the game as we moved through the year, especially in coverage. I'd like to have a source from your tackling efficiency on him.

I never said we wouldn't use him more than 100 snaps either, just that for his contract size, it wouldn't be worth it if he ends up needing most of the season to get past 100 snaps.

Utah_Saint · 10-09-2012, 09:44 PM

Originally Posted by Radical

My metric is PFF, which is endorsed by players, agents, and personnel around the league...

I'd like to have a source from your tackling efficiency on him.

I'm glad you like PFF. I like them too. I'm a subscriber. And coincidently, they're the ones that rated Sean Weatherspoon the worst Linebacker at tackling efficiency.

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blo...y-linebackers/

Here's an article from PFF that mentions what a great move it was for the Saints to upgrade their linebackers with Lofton.

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blo...rleans-saints/

And here's an article from PFF stating that loosing Lofton should be a major concern for the falcons.

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blo...lanta-falcons/

Now, this thread was supposed to be about Chris Ivory and we've completely hijacked it. I apologize to the OP.

If you'd like to read more about Lofton or falcons poor tackling, there's already a thread on the subject. http://blackandgold.com/showthread.php?t=45542

It's full of PFF stats.

10-09-2012, 07:19 PM	#1
Utah_Saint Site Donor 2019 Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Salt Lake City, Utah Posts: 3,521	Re: I didn't know Chris Ivory was activated to play last night! Originally Posted by Radical How do you guys figure we would have lost? The only points they scored was a FG after we knocked RGIII out, and then a long TD by Kirk do to a miscommunication by our safeties, which was also the only 3rd down they converted the whole game. Ignoring the fact that tackles is a grossly overrated stat, it's because he wouldn't see that many snaps. Nicholas and Weatherspoon are better rush and coverage LBs, and in most of our games, Dent(our MLB) has seen less than 10 snaps. Granted, he's a lot better than Dent, but it would be hard to justify a decent contract to a guy that will probably take most of the season to see more than 100 snaps. Tackles are grossly over rated?!? I'm kind of a stat nerd but I've never heard anyone ever say that before. Is that new? Lots of tackles arent a good thing anymore? When you say Weatherspoon is better at coverage what exactly do you mean? Are you using a metric to compare? Since Weatherspoon has been in the league he's had 11 passes defended and 1 interception. Over that time, Lofton has had 12 passes defended and 3 interceptions. In that same time frame, Lofton has had 319 tackles. Weatherspoon has had only 194. That's less than two thirds of Loftons production. Not to mention the fact that Weatherspoon has one of the lowest tackling efficiency rates of all linebackers in the NFL. From all that you conclude that the Falcons wouldn't have used Lofton more than 100 snaps in a season? Even Dent, who is having a very poor year statistically is trending to have more snaps than that. That sounds pretty far fetched don't ya think?

10-09-2012, 07:22 PM	#2
CharityMike Site Donor 2018 Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: Mid City, New Orleans Posts: 3,556	Re: I didn't know Chris Ivory was activated to play last night! Originally Posted by Utah_Saint Tackles are grossly over rated?!? I'm kind of a stat nerd but I've never heard anyone ever say that before. Is that new? Lots of tackles arent a good thing anymore? When you say Weatherspoon is better at coverage what exactly do you mean? Are you using a metric to compare? Since Weatherspoon has been in the league he's had 11 passes defended and 1 interception. Over that time, Lofton has had 12 passes defended and 3 interceptions. In that same time frame, Lofton has had 319 tackles. Weatherspoon has had only 194. That's less than two thirds of Loftons production. Not to mention the fact that Weatherspoon has one of the lowest tackling efficiency rates of all linebackers in the NFL. From all that you conclude that the Falcons wouldn't have used Lofton more than 100 snaps in a season? Even Dent, who is having a very poor year statistically is trending to have more snaps than that. That sounds pretty far fetched don't ya think? GET EM!!

10-09-2012, 07:54 PM	#3
Radical Falcons Fan Join Date: Oct 2012 Posts: 148	Re: I didn't know Chris Ivory was activated to play last night! Originally Posted by Utah_Saint Tackles are grossly over rated?!? I'm kind of a stat nerd but I've never heard anyone ever say that before. Is that new? Lots of tackles arent a good thing anymore? When you say Weatherspoon is better at coverage what exactly do you mean? Are you using a metric to compare? Since Weatherspoon has been in the league he's had 11 passes defended and 1 interception. Over that time, Lofton has had 12 passes defended and 3 interceptions. In that same time frame, Lofton has had 319 tackles. Weatherspoon has had only 194. That's less than two thirds of Loftons production. Not to mention the fact that Weatherspoon has one of the lowest tackling efficiency rates of all linebackers in the NFL. From all that you conclude that the Falcons wouldn't have used Lofton more than 100 snaps in a season? Even Dent, who is having a very poor year statistically is trending to have more snaps than that. That sounds pretty far fetched don't ya think? Yes, number of tackles are an overrated stat, and it isn't new. The tackle stat doesn't provide context, at all. Is the player getting tackles after they just gave what should have been a defensed pass, because he took a poor pursuit angle and ended up tackling a ball carrier several yards later than he should have, or a myriad of other examples. It isn't necessarily a bad stat to have a high number of tackles, but it is doesn't really show how good or bad a player is. My metric is PFF, which is endorsed by players, agents, and personnel around the league. Concerning Lofton though, one thing about him is that historically he's been mediocre in pass coverage, and really doesn't have an instinct for it. With Atlanta, he had to operate with "spot" coverage instead of a true zone. This is where you drop back to a specific spot on the field and hang there rather than playing a true zone where you have to consider depth and tracking players across an area. Weatherspoon last year was fantastic in all phases of the game as we moved through the year, especially in coverage. I'd like to have a source from your tackling efficiency on him. I never said we wouldn't use him more than 100 snaps either, just that for his contract size, it wouldn't be worth it if he ends up needing most of the season to get past 100 snaps.
Radical Falcons Fan Join Date: Oct 2012 Posts: 148	For the fans, by the fans. - AtlantaFalconsTalk

10-09-2012, 09:44 PM	#4
Utah_Saint Site Donor 2019 Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Salt Lake City, Utah Posts: 3,521	Re: I didn't know Chris Ivory was activated to play last night! Originally Posted by Radical My metric is PFF, which is endorsed by players, agents, and personnel around the league... I'd like to have a source from your tackling efficiency on him. I'm glad you like PFF. I like them too. I'm a subscriber. And coincidently, they're the ones that rated Sean Weatherspoon the worst Linebacker at tackling efficiency. https://www.profootballfocus.com/blo...y-linebackers/ Here's an article from PFF that mentions what a great move it was for the Saints to upgrade their linebackers with Lofton. https://www.profootballfocus.com/blo...rleans-saints/ And here's an article from PFF stating that loosing Lofton should be a major concern for the falcons. https://www.profootballfocus.com/blo...lanta-falcons/ Now, this thread was supposed to be about Chris Ivory and we've completely hijacked it. I apologize to the OP. If you'd like to read more about Lofton or falcons poor tackling, there's already a thread on the subject. http://blackandgold.com/showthread.php?t=45542 It's full of PFF stats.

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