the difference between paying to injure and paying for cart-offs.

You still haven't explained to me Guido the difference between paying to injure and paying for cart-offs. I've never seen a non-injured player get carted off the field. It's like if I told you I was going to have you put in a body bag, but denying that it means I'm going to have you killed.

You need to stay away from analogies, and watch 12 Angry Men.

... anyway...

Football players hit each other as hard as they can. The rules of the game allow for this. When you hit someone as hard as you can, there is a chance the other guy is going to get hurt in some way: plain shaken from the impact, or get his bell rung, get the wind knocked out of him, bruise a muscle or a bone, to breaking a bone, or snapping a tendon, etc etc etc. This occurs every week in the NFL. On every game. That there may be an extra $1,000 dlls for someone who makes 2 mil a year and during the course of legal play knocked the wind out of someone else, or rang someone else's bell, that doesn't make it that the player is out to purposely maim someone with the intention to receive what amounts to $10 for you and me.

Now, let's take a real life example: how about the hit that knocked Pierre Thomas out of the playoff game against the Whiners. The safety hit Thomas with the crown of his helmet on the side of the head of Thomas. A legal play. Did the safety intend to injure Thomas? Yes or no? You cannot tell what his intention was unless he tells you, but you cannot argue that, if the safety got a token sum of cash for the hit, that he intended to injure Thomas, but if he didn't get the token amount of cash, he didn't intent to injure Thomas.

And therein lies the issue: the outcome and consequences of legal play are the same, whether there is a token reward for any particular outcome or consequence, or not. Goodell has you believing that hitting someone senseless within the rules is OK, but hitting someone senseless within the rules and then getting a token reward makes you detrimental to the game of football.

Now, let's talk about what started this all, Brett Farve and the 2009 NFCCG. I dare you to watch any Steelers or Eagles game, and see the hits Big Ben and Vick take, on any given Sunday... can you honestly tell me that there is a difference from the hits Big Ben and Vick take on a weekly basis from the hits Farve took that day? Can you watch the 2009 Saints-Vikings game and tell me all the hits on Farve were illegal, with the intention of hurting him? I also dare you to watch the very Vikings defense in 2008 and 2009, especially the 2008 Vikings-Texans game, and you tell me which team was out to injure a QB. Guess which defensive player had the highest amount of fines due to illegal hits in 2009? Jared Allen.

And lastly, Goodell has you believing the Saints are the only team who do/did this.

Now, let me ask you, remember 2010 and the fines Dunta Robinson got for spearing WRs, all illegal hits? Remember your coach saying "that is how we coach them" when asked about Robinson's hits? What do you think about that? Is your coach coaching his team to intentionally hurt players? After all, they are coaching players to lay illegal hits...

So Radical, what is your reply to this? You can't have one unless you continue with your delusional belief that the Saints are horrible monsters that deserve ultimate admonition. You chose to come over here to our site a continue the unfounded and illogical rhetoric that your have spewed on your own site about this farce. Now it is your turn to face the music. I have had the truth behind my defense, but now you have to defend your stand with nothing of substance.

Have at it big man.

Wow..I am going to say this the best way I can trying not to sound like I am insulting you.

You can't see the difference between trying to intentionally hurt someone and someone getting hurt from a legal play/hit? You are the reason Godell still has fans.

When you can prove the intent, let me know.

You need to stay away from analogies, and watch 12 Angry Men.

... anyway...

Football players hit each other as hard as they can. The rules of the game allow for this. When you hit someone as hard as you can, there is a chance the other guy is going to get hurt in some way: plain shaken from the impact, or get his bell rung, get the wind knocked out of him, bruise a muscle or a bone, to breaking a bone, or snapping a tendon, etc etc etc. This occurs every week in the NFL. On every game. That there may be an extra $1,000 dlls for someone who makes 2 mil a year and during the course of legal play knocked the wind out of someone else, or rang someone else's bell, that doesn't make it that the player is out to purposely maim someone with the intention to receive what amounts to $10 for you and me.

Paying to injure as Goodell initially defined it was that the Saints intentionally set out to injure players.

If you would take the time to pull your head out of your ass you would realize that the definition of a "cartoff" by everyone involved is a player that missed a play due to a hard hit. Paying to injure means trying to injure a player, not trying to hurt a player. Every time a defensive player hits the field his job is to HURT the opponent. If the HURT he puts on that opponent takes him out of the game for a play or more, so much the better. I know you are much smarter than you put on here and know the difference.

So Radical, what is your reply to this? You can't have one unless you continue with your delusional belief that the Saints are horrible monsters that deserve ultimate admonition. You chose to come over here to our site and continue the unfounded and illogical rhetoric that you have spewed on your own site about this farce. Now it is your turn to face the music. I have had the truth behind my defense, but now you have to defend your stand with nothing of substance.

Have at it big man.

There's no way to prove intent, but if you're paying for injuries, which is what paying for cart-offs is, then you're encouraging it.
That's the whole point of it. The Saints encouraged players to cause injury via payment, hence the discipline.

I guess you don't have an actual response, other than regurgitate Goodell's position. Fine.

What's there to argue? If the guy who was in charge of it all is admitting to it, what more needs to be said. So far, I've been given nothing but semantics games. You got a guy telling his players to go take out another player's ACL, people paying money for knocking players out of the game, etc.

The insanity of some of the stuff I've read from Saints fans since the start sounds about like the crap I was reading when the dog fighting case broke with Vick. It was all a big conspiracy theory, etc.

Now, let me ask you, remember 2010 and the fines Dunta Robinson got for spearing WRs, all illegal hits? Remember your coach saying "that is how we coach them" when asked about Robinson's hits? What do you think about that? Is your coach coaching his team to intentionally hurt players? After all, they are coaching players to lay illegal hits...