Register All Albums FAQ Community Experience
Go Back   New Orleans Saints Forums - blackandgold.com > Main > Saints

Conspiracy Theory

this is a discussion within the Saints Community Forum; Too much has happened for this to be just a vendetta. For it to have gone this far and for Goodell to go as far as he went with the punishments...IT HAS TO BE ABOUT MONEY...(concussion lawsuits pending) AND GOODELL ...

Like Tree9Likes

Closed Thread
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 10-11-2012, 04:26 AM   #1
Deuce
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 2,894
Re: Conspiracy Theory

Too much has happened for this to be just a vendetta. For it to have gone this far and for Goodell to go as far as he went with the punishments...IT HAS TO BE ABOUT MONEY...(concussion lawsuits pending) AND GOODELL HAS TO BE ACTING AS A PUPPET FOR THE OWNERS. NO COMMISIONER WOULD EVER DO THE THINGS HE IS DOING UNLESS HE KNEW HE HAD FULL SUPPORT OF ALL THE OWNERS.

JMO, though...
neugey and TheOak like this.
Saint_LB is offline  
Old 10-11-2012, 06:17 AM   #2
10000 POST CLUB
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Cypress Tx.
Posts: 19,056
Originally Posted by Beastmode View Post
x626, that still does not explain Benson hiring Freech's high dollar investigative firm to get to the bottom of it. Are you saying this was a front as well? I personally think Benson is a small fry in terms of the owners. A lot of his loyalties are either dead or were pushed out years ago. I do agree though with the Saints being a prime candidate for this punishment. We are without question the loyalists fans in the NFL. Win or lose, we really just want to be entertained and have a good time. This isn't the case with most teams. Losing in epic fashion is just a part of La culture as Monday Red Beans and Rice.
What was the outcome of that investigation? We heard he hires that team but its findings were never released as far as I know.

Which leaves us with three plausible reasons.
1. It was a front.
2. It found the league was correct.
3. It found the league was wrong..... If this was it's findings why is it not being used in court?

I can find the Freeh report on pen state but not Bounty gate.
TheOak is offline  
Old 10-11-2012, 10:08 AM   #3
Site Donor
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: in line with my ridiculous CLEAR PLASTIC BAG
Posts: 3,650
Blog Entries: 3
Re: Conspiracy Theory

Well 626 you have lost me on believing in your theory, my friend, because there is no indication AT ALL in the record that the Saints were being investigated prior to the spring of 2010 after the NFC Championship. It ALL started with the playoffs and with the Vikings whining about the Championship game, not before. Every single source agrees on this: the players, the media, the lawyers, the NFL itself.

Re-read the NY Times article you just linked to and quoted from:

The investigation, led by the N.F.L.’s vice president for security, Jeffrey Miller, the former commissioner of the Pennsylvania State Police, began in 2010, when an unnamed player accused the Saints of targeting opponents, including Favre and Kurt Warner, who as quarterback of the Arizona Cardinals briefly left a playoff game against the Saints after taking a hard hit. That player retracted the allegation, which could not be corroborated at the time, but the investigation was revived in the latter part of the 2011 season when the N.F.L. received what it called significant and credible new information."

The "before the playoffs" you mention refers to the 2011 season, when they came to Benson circa the Lions game, not the playoffs of the 2009-10 season. That's why it was "new information" as opposed to just "information" -- this was round II of the investigation, after they had "told the Saints to stop" in early 2010 but supposedly they/Loomis (really Gregg Williams) didn't.

There was no "announcement" of the original investigation in 2010, no one knew in the public about it, at all, until much much later. In 2010 there was just some grumbling from Childress in an interview and Kluwe whining about it on the radio and the pictures of Favre's hip or thigh or whatever it was, posted on the internet.

I like that you are thinking critically about it and trying to piece it together, but your timeline is just off -- none of this was going on in regards to the Saints before the Vikings game, earlier in the 2009 season, none of it regarding the Saints. The 2009 congressional hearing on concussions that spooked Goodell so bad, were in LATE October of 2009.

I actually agree with you, that Benson is kind of holding his tongue, and sitting on the fence a little bit, in regards to the concussion thing. But I don't think it's nearly as sinister as you guys think it is. I think it is other reasons -- namely, he is hosting a Super Bowl in a couple months and can't say anything too bad or fight back too hard until that's over.

Also, one last thing -- there is no mystery or conspiracy why the Freeh Report has not been released -- it has not been finished yet. It could take a while. The Penn State one he did, took like six months and included formal interviews with hundreds of people. It's only been 4-5 months, so give the man some time.
SaintsBro is offline  
Old 10-12-2012, 07:00 AM   #4
10000 POST CLUB
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Cypress Tx.
Posts: 19,056
Re: Conspiracy Theory

Originally Posted by SaintsBro View Post

The "before the playoffs" you mention refers to the 2011 season, when they came to Benson circa the Lions game, not the playoffs of the 2009-10 season. That's why it was "new information" as opposed to just "information" -- this was round II of the investigation, after they had "told the Saints to stop" in early 2010 but supposedly they/Loomis (really Gregg Williams) didn't.
That wasn't how I read it... you may be correct. I am not one to believe that just because its not public knowledge it didn't happen. Long before official investigations happen there are preliminary investigations. Prelims are rarely public knowledge.

I just found something: The investigation WAS going on in Jan 2010, during the 2009 Season.

Page 6 of 7

"14. Prior to the Super Bowl game at the end of the 2009 NFL season (which was played on February 7, 2010) Micky Loomis told me that a Minnesota Vikings player had told the NFL that the Vikings player had heard about a "bounty" that had been placed on Brett Favre by the Saints. I later learned that the NFL was conducting an investigation".
http://media.nola.com/saints_impact/...209%202012.pdf

It's not what you look at that matters, it's what you see. ~ Henry David Thoreau

Last edited by TheOak; 10-12-2012 at 07:20 AM..
TheOak is offline  
Old 10-12-2012, 06:52 AM   #5
10000 POST CLUB
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Cypress Tx.
Posts: 19,056
Re: Conspiracy Theory

Tobias/SaintsBro - Bounties are systemic. They have been part of the NFL for decades. To say all of this started in the NFC 2010 Championship game is to ignore that coaches/players/owners/Goodell/Rozell/Tagliabue all have known about them for many many years.

Redskins coach George Allen had a bounty on Cowboys QB Roger Staubach, former player says | HamptonRoads.com | PilotOnline.com

Its also been known that Williams had bounty programs in Buffalo, and Washington. The league says they were cleared and found no evidence...
Washington Redskins, Buffalo Bills cleared in NFL bounty investigation, report says - ESPN

They mean no evidence except for confessions.
"A former Redskins coach and five players said Friday that the team’s defense under Williams had a system to reward players with cash for hits that knocked opponents from games. Former defensive end Phillip Daniels, now the Redsksins’ director of player development, defended Williams, saying the approach promoted “good, hard football.”
Report: Gregg Williams may have used bounty incentive while coaching NFL's Buffalo Bills, Washington Redskins - NFL News | FOX Sports on MSN

"“Let’s be clear: the reason that the Hogs did that Hogs Night Out poster...was, in the meeting after the game, Joe Gibbs would come in, he’d have a fistful of $100 bills,” Starke said. “And if Dexter knocked the quarterback down three times, he would get three hundred-dollar bills. And Joe would pass the money out in the meeting, and we would have to duck. "
George Starke: Joe Gibbs would hand out 100 dollar bills for hits on QBs - DC Sports Bog - The Washington Post

To say that because "its not on the internet" and no "internet indication" of investigations prior to the public announcement means you believe that the League has been completely honest and forth coming.

The bounty systems have been the publicly unspoken tabu at least since Roger Staubach played. The league needs something to defend them selves with in court so they can cover up covering up the known effects of concussions.

We were a scape goat, the sacrificial lamb.

Unless you can convince me of a reason why "all of a sudden" after over 40 years the NFL felt it was time to stop this I am not going to think other than my OP.

Unless you can convince me of what the Saints did that no one else has done to warrant them being singled out and have a season systematically destroyed.. I will not believe other wise.

With all due respect, saying its not on the internet or the NFL didn't say something is not reason to believe that it didn't happen or wasn't there.

Tobias- You sort of contradict your self here.
"The League says a lot of things, but we know they aren't necessarily true.
As of today, I have not heard any allegations, any accusations, any information that points to any alleged bounty on anyone prior to the Vikings game."

The source that you state is not a trustworthy source is being completely forthcoming? Lets be honest... ALL of the information that is our there was provided in whole or part by the league. They control the flow of information and or disinformation. I would put money on the fact that the league has skeletons in its closet we will NEVER know about. All corporations do.

The League has hand picked one team out of 32 to lay ALL of this on, roasting one team in 2012 for something that has gone on for over 40 years.

Why?

It's not what you look at that matters, it's what you see. ~ Henry David Thoreau
TheOak is offline  
Old 10-12-2012, 05:31 PM   #6
Merces Letifer
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 4,161
Re: Conspiracy Theory

Originally Posted by x626xBlack View Post
Tobias/SaintsBro - Bounties are systemic. They have been part of the NFL for decades. To say all of this started in the NFC 2010 Championship game is to ignore that coaches/players/owners/Goodell/Rozell/Tagliabue all have known about them for many many years.
Oh, I agree. I explained myself poorly. I meant to say is that I don't believe there are any allegations or any accusations of bounties against the Saints in 2009-10 prior to the NFCCG.

I'm pretty sure they were bounties (and real ones) on guys like Thorpe or Grange.
Tobias-Reiper is offline  
Old 10-12-2012, 07:15 AM   #7
10000 POST CLUB
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Cypress Tx.
Posts: 19,056
Re: Conspiracy Theory

Tobias/SaintsBro - Bounties are systemic. They have been part of the NFL for decades. To say all of this started in the NFC 2010 Championship game is to ignore that coaches/players/owners/Goodell/Rozell/Tagliabue all have known about them for many many years.

Redskins coach George Allen had a bounty on Cowboys QB Roger Staubach, former player says | HamptonRoads.com | PilotOnline.com

Its also been known that Williams had bounty programs in Buffalo, and Washington. The league says they were cleared and found no evidence...
Washington Redskins, Buffalo Bills cleared in NFL bounty investigation, report says - ESPN

They mean no evidence except for confessions.
"A former Redskins coach and five players said Friday that the team’s defense under Williams had a system to reward players with cash for hits that knocked opponents from games. Former defensive end Phillip Daniels, now the Redsksins’ director of player development, defended Williams, saying the approach promoted “good, hard football.”
Report: Gregg Williams may have used bounty incentive while coaching NFL's Buffalo Bills, Washington Redskins - NFL News | FOX Sports on MSN

"“Let’s be clear: the reason that the Hogs did that Hogs Night Out poster...was, in the meeting after the game, Joe Gibbs would come in, he’d have a fistful of $100 bills,” Starke said. “And if Dexter knocked the quarterback down three times, he would get three hundred-dollar bills. And Joe would pass the money out in the meeting, and we would have to duck. "
George Starke: Joe Gibbs would hand out 100 dollar bills for hits on QBs - DC Sports Bog - The Washington Post

To say that because "its not on the internet" and no "internet indication" of investigations prior to the public announcement means you believe that the League has been completely honest and forth coming. Items disappear from the internet all the time. Presently both links I had posted a while back to the official statements from both Williams and Curillo are dead.. gone... no statements to be found... Hell recently the whistleblower title went from Mike Cerullo to Jimmy Kennedy... WTF? There is (was) a legal statement from Cerullo!

NFL says its Mike Cerullo and he should be commended
NFL says Mike Cerullo should be “commended” for coming forward | ProFootballTalk

NFL Says its Jimmy Kennedy
Of whistleblowers and witnesses | ProFootballTalk

Williams Statement is here... Cerullos vanished for some reason
Former New Orleans Saints assistant Mike Cerullo taking center stage in bounty controversy - New Orleans Saints Football NFL News - NOLA.com

The bounty systems have been the publicly unspoken tabu at least since Roger Staubach played. The league needs something to defend them selves with in court so they can cover up covering up the known effects of concussions.

We were a scape goat, the sacrificial lamb.

Unless you can convince me of a reason why "all of a sudden" after over 40 years the NFL felt it was time to stop this I am not going to think other than my OP.

Unless you can convince me of what the Saints did that no one else has done to warrant them being singled out and have a season systematically destroyed.. I will not believe other wise.

With all due respect, saying its not on the internet or the NFL didn't say something is not reason to believe that it didn't happen or wasn't there.

Tobias- You sort of contradict your self here.
"The League says a lot of things, but we know they aren't necessarily true.
As of today, I have not heard any allegations, any accusations, any information that points to any alleged bounty on anyone prior to the Vikings game."

The source that you state is not a trustworthy source is being completely forthcoming? Lets be honest... ALL of the information that is our there was provided in whole or part by the league. They control the flow of information and or disinformation. I would put money on the fact that the league has skeletons in its closet we will NEVER know about. All corporations do.

The League has hand picked one team out of 32 to lay ALL of this on, roasting one team in 2012 for something that has gone on for over 40 years.

Why?

It's not what you look at that matters, it's what you see. ~ Henry David Thoreau
TheOak is offline  
Old 10-12-2012, 12:08 PM   #8
500th Post
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Hub City
Posts: 576
Re: Conspiracy Theory

In a weird way this makes Benson's NY visit to goodell make more sense.

He never went to goodell to fuss or raise a ruckus. He went to tell him to keep doing what he's doing and ignore everything he's hearing. Benson was perfectly happy to have roger do these things (suspensions, re-suspensions) because it doesn't hurt the Saints bottom line, in fact it probably helps it by more people buying Saints merch to "support the team through these tough times" and by more people paying attention while this is all over the news (no press is bad press). It also helps Benson because it helps the NFL build some kind of BS case showing how they were taking action for player safety. Benson doesn't care if these guys get suspended, because at the end of the day he's not making one cent less, and he's still got the meat shield that is goodell to take the flack and arm the NFL's lawyers for the upcoming court battle.

Can't believe I didn't see it this way until now...
Shoe. is offline  
Old 10-12-2012, 12:28 PM   #9
10000 POST CLUB
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Cypress Tx.
Posts: 19,056
Re: Conspiracy Theory

Here is a Q for ya Shoe....

Why has there only been 1 trip? I would have made a dozen by now. I would have been in Goodell's office when MY players spoke and gave testimony. I would have been there when MY players and coaches appealed.

I may have not said peep... But MY arse would have been there, to at least support.
Beastmode likes this.
TheOak is offline  
Old 10-12-2012, 05:36 PM   #10
500th Post
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Hub City
Posts: 576
Re: Conspiracy Theory

Originally Posted by x626xBlack View Post
Here is a Q for ya Shoe....

Why has there only been 1 trip? I would have made a dozen by now. I would have been in Goodell's office when MY players spoke and gave testimony. I would have been there when MY players and coaches appealed.

I may have not said peep... But MY arse would have been there, to at least support.
Great question, the first answer that comes to mind is that its not Benson's fight. He's got goodell and Vilma's lawyers to do that for him on each side of this thing, and he doesn't need to be there to "defend" his players when he really would be doing nothing of the sort.

Tom Benson likely gives two sh*ts about this whole thing. I'm sure Him hiring Louis Freeh to come in was a publicity stunt, nothing more. And it looks as though Freeh found out that there was something rotten in Denmark because there has been NOTHING said about that investigation. If Freeh found out there was nothing going on, Benson definitely would have said something, because down the line when the huge court case inevitably happens, some judge finding out that the league persecuted the Saints with literally nothing to stand on would be devastating for the NFL in court.

In other words, Benson is trying to placate the fans/incite the media by hiring this high profile investigator to come in and tell him something he already knows, then Benson goes to NY, which on the surface appears to look like he is going to contest this ruling, but in reality he is just telling roger to hold the line, keep doing what you're doing, and build us a case against all these ex-players that are going to bleed the league dry if they win their court case.


tl:dr - Benson is in on this thing too. Its his ass in a sling if the ex-players win that case, and a future judgement that rules for the ex-players will hurt him (read: his checkbook) a lot more than this one season without a coach and some players. I mean really, if you're Tom Benson, how does this whole thing bounty-debacle hurt your bottom line?

Answer? It doesn't. In fact, it saves him money. No Loomis, Payton, or Vitt salary to pay out, and that'll add up quick. And let's be honest- Tom Benson didn't buy a football team to win Superbowls, he bought it to make money, the SBs are just a means to an end


THAT'S a conspiracy theory lol
Beastmode likes this.
Shoe. is offline  
Closed Thread

Tags
bountygate


Posting Rules

LinkBacks (?)
LinkBack to this Thread: https://blackandgold.com/saints/51809-conspiracy-theory.html
Posted By For Type Date Hits
Conspiracy Theory This thread Refback 10-10-2012 01:26 PM 4


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:52 PM.


Copyright 1997 - 2020 - BlackandGold.com
no new posts