Saints corners......

ScottyRo · 08-13-2004, 10:52 AM

You heard the man, play nice! Ok, sorry for getting the heated discussion going, NOT!
Just joshing Joe. I think our secondary is alot more stable than most people think and can\'t wait until they have a chance to prove it.

I like these debates, gets alot more people interested in OUR BOARD!

Unless something was edited out, I didn\'t see anything that wasn\'t in the \"play nice\" theme. There weren\'t any personal attacks or cursing. There\'s nothing wrong with a heated debate except that for some people it leads naturally to breaking the posting rules. I say keep it going, but be respectful and mindful of others.

CheramieIII · 08-13-2004, 05:32 PM

I agree I think these spicy New Orleans debates are just like the food, grrrrrrrrrreat.

SaintFanInATLHELL · 08-13-2004, 06:00 PM

If they start and finish in the top 10 this season against the pass it will be because they cant stop the run. If they stop the run and finish in the top 10 I will be the first one apologizing for dogging them all season. They are short on talent. The only way they will hold up is with a huge pass rush. Thats my opinion and right or wrong I hope they can hold up, just dont expect it.

I\'ve been saying that\'s the game plan all offseason. Stop the run. Hella pass rush on passing downs. You have to scheme to the personnel that you have. We don\'t have Woodson (when healthy) or Champ Bailey. Personally I don\'t think we can afford McKenzie\'s price or his drama even though he\'s probably close to shutdown corner talent. Unless you thought that Gamble would eventually reach elite corner status, there simply wasn\'t any corners available in this years draft. In hindsight Trufant probably was the pick we should have made in 2003. Whether Sully comes around or not, we had (and have) need of a 1st round talent cover corner.

When you play cover two and underneath coverage schemes, QB\'s have to have time and precision in order to exploit it. If you have a superior pass rush, and I believe that this Saints D-line + fast LBs can accomplish that, QBs won\'t get the time necessary to get the ball into the seams.

So average to above average secondary with a hella pass rush can work. Look to the 2002 Bucs for the blueprint.

SFIAH

BlackandBlue · 08-13-2004, 06:32 PM

If we all agree that the strong point of our defense is the defensive line, and our greatest weakness is in the secondary, why are implementing a scheme that removes one lineman, one linebacker, and adds two more to the secondary?

GumboBC · 08-13-2004, 06:57 PM

If we all agree that the strong point of our defense is the defensive line, and our greatest weakness is in the secondary, why are implementing a scheme that removes one lineman, one linebacker, and adds two more to the secondary?

Well, even though the D-line is the strength of our defense, that doesn\'t mean we don\'t need to play some cover 2 or cover 3 schemes. We just need to play them when there\'s a high percentage they will be passing.

Having more rushers on the field means there is a higher likelyhood for getting pressure on the QB, but it leaves the secondary vulnerable if they don\'t get there.

There\'s always a risk/reward factor with any defense that is called. That\'s what seperates the good D-coaches from the GREAT D-coaches.

IMO, we are not the type of defense that is going to \"man up\" with the receivers and rush a bunch of guys. Not on a consistent basis anyway. What we need to do is mix it up and keep offenses off balance. You really can\'t do that without a talented front 4. We have that. But, we might need to protect or CB\'s at times.

If Craft or Fakir or Craver can step up, it would really allow us to pin our ears back and make life a living hell for opposing QB\'s. We\'ll see.....

BlackandBlue · 08-13-2004, 07:47 PM

Well, even though the D-line is the strength of our defense, that doesn\'t mean we don\'t need to play some cover 2 or cover 3 schemes. We just need to play them when there\'s a high percentage they will be passing.

Having more rushers on the field means there is a higher likelyhood for getting pressure on the QB, but it leaves the secondary vulnerable if they don\'t get there.

Thanks for the lesson in Defense 101, but it didn\'t really answer my question. Not a single team in any league, on any level, runs the same defense, they all mix it up. My question is, and I will try to make this a bit more clear, is, given our strengths, why would we add a scheme to our existing defensive playbook that would appear to leave us vulnerable because of our weaknesses? Look at this delta package and please point out what I am missing. I haven\'t been a fan of our linebackers in years, so in my mind, if you are wanting heavy coverage in the secondary, wouldn\'t it make more sense to just play a dime package, tweak or modify some of the plays that are currently associated with the dime and are in our playbook, rather than add another scheme?

biloxi-indian · 08-13-2004, 08:50 PM

I am reminded of the comment...\"it\'s the SYSTEM stupid\"! No pass rush will only put additional pressure on our DB\'s, lack of LB coverage will only put additional pressure on DB\'s. The Saints do not have a PURE shut down corner...you guys can paint any picture you wish with WISHING and HOPING, but the fact remains we do not have such a corner.

How many PURE shut down corners can you name? Let us not use HYPE or MEDIA perspective...from your own eys, who is the best SHUT down corner? First, we have to define SHUT down corner. Only then can we agree on who...but you can rest assurred that it is not one of the our beloved Saints and on the current roster.

I watched the game between the Broncos and Redskins and saw Champ have no-name players make significant catches in front of him...so please spare me his NAME. Law, has had the same...so again, spare me.

CheramieIII · 08-13-2004, 11:31 PM

The corners played pretty good tonite, with the exception of the one bonehead interference call from Ambrose. I know\'s it\'s only preseason, but come on say they did better than you thought they would.

Would\'nt everyone agree?

JOESAM2002 · 08-14-2004, 01:54 AM

For those of you that may not know, the play nice kids was meant to keep things from getting out of hand. As some of you might remember it HAS happened. And like a wise man once said, the best offense, is a good defense. So play nice kids and you\'ll have no problem from me.

GumboBC · 08-14-2004, 02:21 AM

For those of you that may not know, the play nice kids was meant to keep things from getting out of hand. As some of you might remember it HAS happened. And like a wise man once said, the best offense, is a good defense. So play nice kids and you\'ll have no problem from me.

LMAO. Yeah, there\'s no doubt things can get out of control very quick. I think this thread had the \"potential\" to do just that. Joe has dealt with enough of \'em that he can smell one from a mile away.. :P

But, you don\'t have to worry about me getting out of control. I\'m an OAK.

Now that B&B fella, that\'s a different story. He annoys me with his wit. :P I saw where you called me \"defense 101.\" I got something for ya, big boy...

08-13-2004, 10:52 AM	#21
ScottyRo 1000 Posts + Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Williamsburg, VA (ugh, the food here) Posts: 1,704	Saints corners...... You heard the man, play nice! Ok, sorry for getting the heated discussion going, NOT! Just joshing Joe. I think our secondary is alot more stable than most people think and can\'t wait until they have a chance to prove it. I like these debates, gets alot more people interested in OUR BOARD! Unless something was edited out, I didn\'t see anything that wasn\'t in the \"play nice\" theme. There weren\'t any personal attacks or cursing. There\'s nothing wrong with a heated debate except that for some people it leads naturally to breaking the posting rules. I say keep it going, but be respectful and mindful of others.

08-13-2004, 05:32 PM	#22
CheramieIII Fan Since 1967 Join Date: May 2004 Location: Nomad Posts: 7,487 Blog Entries: 3	Saints corners...... I agree I think these spicy New Orleans debates are just like the food, grrrrrrrrrreat.

08-13-2004, 06:00 PM	#23
SaintFanInATLHELL The Professor Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Lithonia, GA Posts: 2,776	Saints corners...... If they start and finish in the top 10 this season against the pass it will be because they cant stop the run. If they stop the run and finish in the top 10 I will be the first one apologizing for dogging them all season. They are short on talent. The only way they will hold up is with a huge pass rush. Thats my opinion and right or wrong I hope they can hold up, just dont expect it. I\'ve been saying that\'s the game plan all offseason. Stop the run. Hella pass rush on passing downs. You have to scheme to the personnel that you have. We don\'t have Woodson (when healthy) or Champ Bailey. Personally I don\'t think we can afford McKenzie\'s price or his drama even though he\'s probably close to shutdown corner talent. Unless you thought that Gamble would eventually reach elite corner status, there simply wasn\'t any corners available in this years draft. In hindsight Trufant probably was the pick we should have made in 2003. Whether Sully comes around or not, we had (and have) need of a 1st round talent cover corner. When you play cover two and underneath coverage schemes, QB\'s have to have time and precision in order to exploit it. If you have a superior pass rush, and I believe that this Saints D-line + fast LBs can accomplish that, QBs won\'t get the time necessary to get the ball into the seams. So average to above average secondary with a hella pass rush can work. Look to the 2002 Bucs for the blueprint. SFIAH
	Super Bowl Championships: New Orleans Saints:1, Carolina:0, Atlanta Chokers: STILL ZERO Only Atlanta choked in an unchokable situation... Life is definitely good.

08-13-2004, 06:32 PM	#24
BlackandBlue Kinder, gentler Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: dirty south Posts: 3,889	Saints corners...... If we all agree that the strong point of our defense is the defensive line, and our greatest weakness is in the secondary, why are implementing a scheme that removes one lineman, one linebacker, and adds two more to the secondary?

08-13-2004, 06:57 PM	#25
GumboBC Banned Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 2,616	Saints corners...... If we all agree that the strong point of our defense is the defensive line, and our greatest weakness is in the secondary, why are implementing a scheme that removes one lineman, one linebacker, and adds two more to the secondary? Well, even though the D-line is the strength of our defense, that doesn\'t mean we don\'t need to play some cover 2 or cover 3 schemes. We just need to play them when there\'s a high percentage they will be passing. Having more rushers on the field means there is a higher likelyhood for getting pressure on the QB, but it leaves the secondary vulnerable if they don\'t get there. There\'s always a risk/reward factor with any defense that is called. That\'s what seperates the good D-coaches from the GREAT D-coaches. IMO, we are not the type of defense that is going to \"man up\" with the receivers and rush a bunch of guys. Not on a consistent basis anyway. What we need to do is mix it up and keep offenses off balance. You really can\'t do that without a talented front 4. We have that. But, we might need to protect or CB\'s at times. If Craft or Fakir or Craver can step up, it would really allow us to pin our ears back and make life a living hell for opposing QB\'s. We\'ll see.....
GumboBC Banned Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 2,616

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08-13-2004, 07:47 PM	#26
BlackandBlue Kinder, gentler Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: dirty south Posts: 3,889	Saints corners...... Well, even though the D-line is the strength of our defense, that doesn\'t mean we don\'t need to play some cover 2 or cover 3 schemes. We just need to play them when there\'s a high percentage they will be passing. Having more rushers on the field means there is a higher likelyhood for getting pressure on the QB, but it leaves the secondary vulnerable if they don\'t get there. Thanks for the lesson in Defense 101, but it didn\'t really answer my question. Not a single team in any league, on any level, runs the same defense, they all mix it up. My question is, and I will try to make this a bit more clear, is, given our strengths, why would we add a scheme to our existing defensive playbook that would appear to leave us vulnerable because of our weaknesses? Look at this delta package and please point out what I am missing. I haven\'t been a fan of our linebackers in years, so in my mind, if you are wanting heavy coverage in the secondary, wouldn\'t it make more sense to just play a dime package, tweak or modify some of the plays that are currently associated with the dime and are in our playbook, rather than add another scheme?
	The waiting drove me mad.... I don't want to hear from those that know... Everything has changed, absolutely nothing's changed Eddie is a....draftnik?

08-13-2004, 08:50 PM	#27
biloxi-indian Site Donor Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Southlake, TX Posts: 1,706	Saints corners...... I am reminded of the comment...\"it\'s the SYSTEM stupid\"! No pass rush will only put additional pressure on our DB\'s, lack of LB coverage will only put additional pressure on DB\'s. The Saints do not have a PURE shut down corner...you guys can paint any picture you wish with WISHING and HOPING, but the fact remains we do not have such a corner. How many PURE shut down corners can you name? Let us not use HYPE or MEDIA perspective...from your own eys, who is the best SHUT down corner? First, we have to define SHUT down corner. Only then can we agree on who...but you can rest assurred that it is not one of the our beloved Saints and on the current roster. I watched the game between the Broncos and Redskins and saw Champ have no-name players make significant catches in front of him...so please spare me his NAME. Law, has had the same...so again, spare me.
	Insanity is defined as doing the same thing over, over, and over again...and expecting a different outcome!

08-13-2004, 11:31 PM	#28
CheramieIII Fan Since 1967 Join Date: May 2004 Location: Nomad Posts: 7,487 Blog Entries: 3	Saints corners...... The corners played pretty good tonite, with the exception of the one bonehead interference call from Ambrose. I know\'s it\'s only preseason, but come on say they did better than you thought they would. Would\'nt everyone agree?

08-14-2004, 01:54 AM	#29
JOESAM2002 1000 Posts + Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: CRYSTAL BEACH TEXAS Posts: 4,100	Saints corners...... For those of you that may not know, the play nice kids was meant to keep things from getting out of hand. As some of you might remember it HAS happened. And like a wise man once said, the best offense, is a good defense. So play nice kids and you\'ll have no problem from me.

08-14-2004, 02:21 AM	#30
GumboBC Banned Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 2,616	Saints corners...... For those of you that may not know, the play nice kids was meant to keep things from getting out of hand. As some of you might remember it HAS happened. And like a wise man once said, the best offense, is a good defense. So play nice kids and you\'ll have no problem from me. LMAO. Yeah, there\'s no doubt things can get out of control very quick. I think this thread had the \"potential\" to do just that. Joe has dealt with enough of \'em that he can smell one from a mile away.. :P But, you don\'t have to worry about me getting out of control. I\'m an OAK. Now that B&B fella, that\'s a different story. He annoys me with his wit. :P I saw where you called me \"defense 101.\" I got something for ya, big boy...
GumboBC Banned Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 2,616