Ingram, what's wrong.
 

In Ingrams defense, they never try anything different with him, not having him catch it out of the back field. Not toss sweeps or shot gun runs.

This brings out some tougher questions, can Ingram catch, is he a liability blocking, or is he hurt.

Re: Ingram, what's wrong.
 

Go watch his 'Bama highlights.

Dude can catch. And run.

AT THE SAME TIME

Re: Ingram, what's wrong.
 

Ingram can block and he can catch, I've seen him do both

In all fairness, even though Ingram wasn't doing well before, none of our RB's even Pierre could get going, bucs stopped our running game

Re: Ingram, what's wrong.
 

That's college. This is the NFL. So far, I haven't seen him do any of the things he did in college. Sorry.

Re: Ingram, what's wrong.
 

Vitt is going to be making some changes and I assume this will be one thing he will want to look at.

Re: Ingram, what's wrong.
 

See Ingram get ball.
See Ingram run between the guards.
See Ingram get stuffed because the o-line got pushed back 2-3 yards.
Rinse and repeat every time Ingram is in the game.

Re: Ingram, what's wrong.
 

Seems to me Ingram only gets 2-3 different run plays called when he's in... Every team stacks the box when he's on the field.

Re: Ingram, what's wrong.
 

Last 4 games...

Pierre Thomas 37-89 2.35 avg
Mark Ingram 22-59 2.68 avg

Whats wrong with Pierre Thomas?

Re: Ingram, what's wrong.
 

I think the real question is what happened to the run blocking from our offensive line?

Re: Ingram, what's wrong.
 

That's kind of my point.

It seems to me that the things you saw him do in college are different because he isn't involved many of those style plays in the NFL. Pitches to the outside, checkdowns. Not straight up the middle, everytime, although he did some of that at Bama as well, and I can totally understand the criticism of him not now being successful on those kinds of plays at the NFL level. But he does always get positive yardage. (Except in GB)

I just feel like I never see Ingram with the ball in space with the chance to make someone miss, and to me its because he is always called on to run the same straight-line play

Re: Ingram, what's wrong.
 

Our tackles are, well, playing at the same level as the defensive line not being named Bunkley...

Re: Ingram, what's wrong.
 

I'll rewatch the game tonight but it does seem like every run is a straight handoff right up the middle.

The dude had one of the fastest 10 yards splits at the combine. How about some pitchouts or screens?

He's not a fullback, he's a halfback. We need to use him like one.

Re: Ingram, what's wrong.
 

How can you pitch out when our Tackles can't make those blocks?!?

Re: Ingram, what's wrong.
 

All comes back to not having the best play caller in the nfl on the sidelines. FREE PAYTON!!

Re: Ingram, what's wrong.
 

Ingram isn't what he was in college. Not many yds after contact, not as fast, etc. face it...he's just not that good. People were expecting to get Trent Richardson...he's not him. I wish they would showcase him and trade him. Pierre is better

Re: Ingram, what's wrong.
 

Yep, as I expected every hand-off was straight up the gut behind a FB, and absolutely no hole at all to squeeze through.

More often than not he's been met on our side of the line.

Our interior sucks at run blocking, absolutely sucks.

BTW, the same thing happened when PT ran between the tackles. On one play he was hit by 3 Bucs while receiving the hand-off.

Re: Ingram, what's wrong.
 

I'm not sure that Ingram every had any ground to lose. I've only seen him run one very impressive play where he showed vision, and that was in a pre-season game this year. I'm hoping for the best but I think that was a bum pick, made even worse by the fact that we traded up.

Re: Ingram, what's wrong.
 

Square peg round hole. Drew probably wouldn't have done well at the Air Force Academy either. I don't think our current system will ever fit him and I think the competition knows that. He needs to be in a place like Pittsburgh.

Re: Ingram, what's wrong.
 

He tripped over his own feet on one run yesterday that was going to be a nice gain. Gotta take advantage of those opportunities. If he breaks that one for 20 yards we are probably not having this conversation.

Re: Ingram, what's wrong.
 

One problem I see is the Saints are trying to use Mark Ingram in about the same role they used Deuce McAllister, to a degree. Ingram is a 215lb back, McAllister was listed at around 230, more likely around 250. McAllister simply did not go down easy and got his yards. Ingram is tough as nails, but seriously doesn't really have the bulk to be a short down power back. But like most running backs, gotta give the man the ball in order to get going. Until/if the Saints find a way to get Ingram the ball around 20 times per game, we should all refrain from judgment.

Re: Ingram, what's wrong.
 

lets see what happens when we get our line coach back

Re: Ingram, what's wrong.
 

On another note, I saw a play Sunday where we passed the ball with Ingram in the game and got a nice gain out of it. Defense never saw it coming.

While I agree, it is hard to grade our backs because none of them get a decent enough amount of touches to properly analyze, Pierre and Sproles give us our best screen options and as general receivers and each run as good as Ingram. He's depth and nothing more.

Re: Ingram, what's wrong.
 

What gets me is we have 5 RB's and we don't know how to use them or Block for them.

Re: Ingram, what's wrong.
 

Maybe one less RB and one better offensive lineman?

Maybe with Aaron Kromer relieved of his HC responsibilities he'll find some improvements to make in the OL play...

Re: Ingram, what's wrong.
 

The relevant point is:
We ALL like PT Cruiser
Mark Ingram is not in that club yet.
So until then, ipso facto, Mark Ingram is doing something wrong.

Re: Ingram, what's wrong.
 

+1

Re: Ingram, what's wrong.
 

I said this once before in a very ridiculously long tl;dr post, but my gut tells me that we are seeing some kind of weird hybrid "unfinished" thing with Mark Ingram in this offense...that this "1.9 yards and a cloud of dust" over and over ISN'T what Payton wanted from him, or had in mind for him, but Payton didn't get to install it or figure it out or communicate it to Carmichael before the suspension....this CAN'T be what Payton had in mind for him, it looks like a completely different team out there whenever Ingram is in the game...it's just screwy.

Re: Ingram, what's wrong.
 

I think someone mentioned it already.
We have too many running backs, and not enough carries to go aroubnd when we have the best QB in the game throwing it 45+ times a game.
I don't expect 100 yard days from any of our guys, but the run game has to be good enough for them to fear it to open up play action

Re: Ingram, what's wrong.
 

these are the years stats. The REAL stats:

RUSHINGATTYDSAVGTDPierre Thomas502144.31Mark Ingram441272.91
RUSHINGATTYDSAVGTDPierre Thomas502144.31Mark Ingram441272.91PT- 50 carries for 214 yards for a 4.3 avg
MIA- 44 carries for 127 yards for a 2.9 avg

Re: Ingram, what's wrong.
 

Ingram can not do what Ivory can do between the tackles, and Ivory can not do what Thomas does in open space... and because Ingram is a square peg they are trying to drive into a round hole we are still not sure exactly what he can do in the NFL... its not his fault. Then there is the Cadet who dresses and has yet to touch the ball...

Piss poor use of the tools at hand.

Re: Ingram, what's wrong.
 

Apparently REAL stats mane no sense.

Re: Ingram, what's wrong.
 

Ingram has also stated that he is not that kind of RB. Can't remember where I read it but he said something to that effect. They compare him to Emmitt Smith but Smith was actually smaller and for much of his career had the Moose. Even he will admit, much of his success was directly due to that tandem.

I've seen enough to know Ingram will contunie to get small gains unless something changes. Probably not going to get help with a FB but direct snaps, flee flickers...I would like to see them at least try some other options. Getting a dedicated O-line coach should help some but I'm not holding my breath.

Re: Ingram, what's wrong.
 

We need to use him more on shotgun sets where it's 50-50 run vs pass.
Let him stay in as a blocker a couple times, let him catch a couple swing passes then let him take a delayed hand off. We have to mix it up with him in the game not just run up the gut. And by the way on the goal line stop, the Bucs tried to run behind Nicks twice and it didn't work.

Re: Ingram, what's wrong.
 

His pass blocking is no better than Ivory's, case in point look at the Chargers game, he went outside to chip the DE while the S was blitzing. Totally missed the blitzer, Brees got hit, fumbled the ball and Ingram was lucky to be in the right place at the right time to pick up that fumble to save his poor play. We need to bring the hammer when we run the ball and that means activating Ivory. Fumbling in practice and fumbling in a game are two different things and I think Ivory knows that is why he's not being activated and I think he will take care of the ball if given the chance.

Re: Ingram, what's wrong.
 

krommer needs a run blocking retool. we have to change something.

Re: Ingram, what's wrong.
 

Yes, it is.

Re: Ingram, what's wrong.
 

Man i respectfully beg to differ

Re: Ingram, what's wrong.
 

Well we all are making good points about him. I can see it from both sides. But they said they needed to run him in the Bucs game. Then they didn't, we will never know as the real reason I guess.
But they need to do something with him, we need to feature him and work his butt off. Not just this up the middle crap for 3 yards or less.

Re: Ingram, what's wrong.
 

This may be something that Kromer just hasn't been able to work on enough due to time constraints, given whatever added responsibilities he had to nail down as IHC. Hopefully we see a little bit of a change moving forward now that Khrome should have a little more time w his boys.

Either way, I'd like to see Chris Ivory given a chance to make something happen in a game. If he fumbles, so be it, take your ass back to the bench, you had your chance. But if he doesn't and we find a 'tween the tackles runner who can operate with a degree of success, Ingram, as talented as he may be, could find himself as the odd man out.

Re: Ingram, what's wrong.
 

The issue isn't who is running the ball it is how the Saints run the ball. The Saints are a pass first team. Drew Brees is by far the best player. The offensive philosophy is to run just enough to keep the defense off balance so Brees can get passing lanes off of play action. The Saints are only committed to the run to the extent that they don't get too one dimensional. But that's completely different than some other teams, like for example the 49ers who are a run first team. If you put Pierre Thomas or Mark Ingram on the 49ers their stats would improve dramatically. What I question is given the way the Saints use the run, why did they give up a 1st round pick on Ingram. To me, that makes no sense.