Is our window closed?
 

For years we have tried to build a solid D, but bad draft decisions and big contracts on offense have hindered us in doing so. Hell we have tried for over 10 years and have not accomplished squat. Our offense is noticeably worse this year, and I don't see it getting any better without some major upgrades. We have serious work to do on the line and some of our WR aren't getting any younger. Devery is getting up there and I don't think Morgan is a long term solution for the deep threat. TE is another position. We have Graham, who has issues of his own this year, but after him there is a huge drop off. Lastly we have the Messaiahs huge contract handcuffing us so we can't make any upgrades.

Re: Is our window closed?
 

If you follow the blueprint for success the window never closes.

Address weaknesses with moderately priced free-agents, and draft the best player available.

Re: Is our window closed?
 

I disagree... We have never made an honest attempt at building a solid D.. At lease not in the last 8 years.

Re: Is our window closed?
 

I wouldn't call it yet as our window being closed, but it is safe to assume the Saints will go into some type of rebuild/retool/rethink mode after this season is over.

I am probably stating the obvious, but I do see major player turnover after this season concludes.

Re: Is our window closed?
 

I have three words to instantly end any "is our window closed?" discussion.... John Freaking Elway.

Back to back Super Bowls at age 37 and 38. Went out on top. After they lost that ugly blowout Super Bowl to San Francisco, many people thought the Broncos were "done" and that Elway would NEVER win one. He sure proved them wrong. So...the window is definitely still open for this team. Heck, the suspension means we may actually end up getting an extra year or two of Payton, too, if he decides he needs to make back the money he's lost from this year and do it by staying on and retiring from coaching a little later than he wanted to.

Re: Is our window closed?
 

Agree. I keep banging a worn out drum but why with 1st round investments that we have on D, do we not get results? What is the constant in that? THE POSITION COACHS!! Why are they still here?

D Line coach :nutkick:

LB'er coach :nutkick:

D scout :nutkick:

Re: Is our window closed?
 

Disagree totally. We hired GW and Payton pulled an extra 1/4 million out of his own pocket to do it. An extremely expensive hire. Spags was not cheap either.

We brought in numerous free-agents who were not cheap, Franklin, Rogers, Lofton, Greer, and Bunkley.

We traded 2 picks to land Vilma.

Since 2006 we drafted 12 players in the top half (1st thru 4th) of the draft including four 1st rounders out of seven.

In 2011 we drafted 5 defensive players and only 1 offensive.
In 2009 all 4 picks were on defense.

Since Payton arrived we've drafted 21 defensive players and 20 offensive players.

Re: Is our window closed?
 

Guess we just got luckier with the offensive players.

Re: Is our window closed?
 

No doubt we hit on more offensive players, but we've certainly tried to address the defense with coaches, draft picks and free-agents.

Re: Is our window closed?
 

I have been on that wagon for a while also. We have invested far too many upper level picks on the D to not have an average squad out there. Not talking about Dome Patrol or anything, just some dudes that can marginally handle business.

The constants in this equation are indeed the position coaches and the scouting personnel, and finally, the GM who has the final say on who we pick

Saw a thread earlier about how Loomis isn't necessarily a "football guy" and more of an accountant. I can buy that, because he's a damn good accountant, but if that's the case then Loomy needs to surround himself with people who can make up for his deficiencies, and it is certainly looking as though the people who evaluate D talent need to take a look in the mirror, or at least in a book that tells you how to evaluate players. I understand the argument nobody can consistently predict first round booms/busts, but I'm talking about all the way through our drafts we seem to strike out defensively, or at best, foul off a few.

If our starting safeties, one corner, and a couple D lineman with promise are the best we have to show for 7 years of drafting defensive talent...yikes

Re: Is our window closed?
 

Honestly keep Lofton, Greer and MAYBE Jenkins and put 8-9 new people in there with them (that can include Hicks and Wilson).


COULD IT BE ANY WORSE???

Re: Is our window closed?
 

Jenkins?? Hell no. Why keep a safety that is always out of position and CAN NOT TACKLE to save his life? He needs to be on the short list!

Re: Is our window closed?
 

I think instead of drafting we need to trade for experienced defensive players...

Re: Is our window closed?
 

Do both

We need a player like Patrick Peterson in our secondary, big, fast, can matchup with big receivers, great hands and doesn't drop picks

Re: Is our window closed?
 

I agree...We also need a faster D Line...Elllis Has To Go, Smith Has To Go, Honestly I Think We Shot Ourselves In The Foot By Giving Up Charleston And McCray They Actually Had Speed To Get To The QB

Re: Is our window closed?
 

It's not really "is our window closed" but will we be able to patch up the D enough to help out the offense.

You have to face that the offense will sometimes be kinda stagnant. Last night we were stagnant and the D could not keep us in the game. Honestly I think we could get into the playoffs with a 9-7. I could be wrong but we'll see.

Re: Is our window closed?
 

All of that was spread out over 6 years, Lofton was brought in to replace Vilma... Its like duct tape patching a tire with a hole in it... We need to take one year and completely clean house, instead of replacing 4 people we keep 4 people and replace the rest....

wait... let me rephrase this entire rebuttal.

If after 6 years of an honest thorough complete rebuilding of our defense the best we can pull off is setting records for yards allowed we need to stop trying because we are "doing it all wrong".

Furthermore, the person that masterminded our prolific offense cant be the same person that masterminded this porous defense. If they are in deed two different people they should never be allowed to sit together on the bus.

I have another item i will post in the mid season thread because it doesn't fit here as well.

Re: Is our window closed?
 

FIFY

Re: Is our window closed?
 

Ha! The medicine I am on is taking its toll... I had to re-read that 3 times because it kept reading as a big fast player like Patrick Robinson.

I thought I was missing something LOL.

Re: Is our window closed?
 

Our window isn't closed. The coaches that leave Drew in the game when he should be taken out are just irresponsible. If you want our window to close in a hurry just let Drew get badly banged up.

Re: Is our window closed?
 

Its not closed... But it has one of those aggravating screens with no tabs, no flex and a few screws holding it in place...

Re: Is our window closed?
 

I think the Dude has a good point here though. He's onto something. What we REALLY need to do, is start telling Drew that WE think the window is closed. Once people start telling him that, once the media start saying he will never get there, then he will go out there like a maniac and win three in a row for us.

Now I get it, awesome thread -- I like the way The Dude is thinking, here....crazy like a fox....

Re: Is our window closed?
 

As soon as you link Drew to our defensive performance... I would buy it.... but then again I think I would have more questions.

Re: Is our window closed?
 

No question the effort has been there; it's now at the point of incompetence...

One ProBowl in all those draft picks - you could have a better draft from the consensus of this website than what's been done on defense...

Re: Is our window closed?
 

And how exactly are you going to "clean house" when only Ellis', Casillas', McBride's and Shanle's contracts are up at the end of this season?!

In the current salary cap era, you can't just "blow up" a team when players have 2-3 years left on their expensive contracts, like Will Smith for example. You'd still end up paying those cut players a ton of money because their contracts guarantee them that money, and while you'd have a lot more free roster spots - you'd find it hard to find the money to fill those spots with actual quality players.

This is the reality that I've been struggling with when trying to think of a way the Saints could really improve their defensive personnel for next year.

Re: Is our window closed?
 

True, I hit on Hicks a month before that draft, so maybe they should give me a shot come next draft?! ;-)

Re: Is our window closed?
 

Maybe you're onto smething there.;)

Re: Is our window closed?
 

As long as Drew is the QB, the window is far from closed

Re: Is our window closed?
 

find the guy that found the front 4 for the giants, now thats talent. payton is drafting quality smart players? and our quality smart atheletes can't catch on to our new coordinaters scheme. throw out somebody.
OUR SEASONS NOT OVER= WE GOT SHOT TILL ITS OVER.

Re: Is our window closed?
 

No, but we're bangin' it with a rubber mallet and it's hitting us in the head on the back bounce!

LOL

Alaska

Re: Is our window closed?
 

This ^^^

Re: Is our window closed?
 

Well, as far as I can tell, Spags may have brought some much needed assessment skills to the defensive scouting side. Hicks and White were both solid picks, and both will probably turn out to be good players with a year or two of development. If I remember correctly, I thought I read somewhere, way back when Spags was hired, that he also brought with him some scouts. Now, I could be mistaken, but I think it was in some NOLA article.

Anyway, the problem might be that the scouts were still evaluating defensive talent based on what GW used to look for in a defensive player, which is very different than what Spags probably looks for... especially when it comes to the lower round picks.

Re: Is our window closed?
 

Lets hope he brought with him some scouts!

Re: Is our window closed?
 

Our window is definately not closed. We just need our coach. I expect great thing when he returns next season.

Re: Is our window closed?
 

He brought scouts? Does he think he's Lewis or Clark? He should have brought a freaking scheme to match the players he already has.

Scouts...

Is Daniel freaking Boone our defensive coordinator? Captain Jack? Buffalo effing Bill?

I just threw up a little...

Re: Is our window closed?
 

Shouldn't it be Sacagawea if we are going by your original comparison?! ;-)

Re: Is our window closed?
 

:lol: ... are you watching the History Channel again?, :lol:.

Re: Is our window closed?
 

Fin, don't go all history major on us now. We have a protected sub-forum for that called "Boring Important Subjects Nobody Likes". The password is "no life". :p

Re: Is our window closed?
 

Great, do you have a link to the sub-forum 'cos I can't seem to find it on my own... sounds like something right up my alley! ;-)

Re: Is our window closed?
 

Not even close. With the parity in this league the way it is teams can and do turn on a dime at times. We have alot of important pieces already. It just needs some savvy management.