Steve Spagnuolo says there’s no magic fix for the Saints’ defense

TheOak · 10-30-2012, 11:54 AM

Originally Posted by Papa Voodoo

Start by watching game tape of Greg Williams defenses and start using that model...blitz like a wild man.

Good point, it wasn't a style it was a model.... Organized chaos.

GW is not a better defensive coordinator than Spags just smarter, and since Spags admitted he had a lot better talent its possibly the players that made Spags and not Spags that made the players.

GW realized what he had, and FOUND a way to make it work out.... The Bountys were like PCP... super charge a bunch of players and they become more difficult to handle.

Explains Fujita leaving.

At the end of the day the reality is that our defense is just bad... A few decent players but as a whole unit its awful... The only way it has any success is to confuse QBs and blitz with so many people that WRs have to pass block.

SaintsBro · 10-30-2012, 12:04 PM

Originally Posted by Shoe.

For a world-class, experienced, practicing professional in a field full of intense competition, those words are especially troubling to me.

How can you say you don't know where to start? Are there not enough obvious, glaring deficiencies? This dude is supposed to be one of the best on the planet at this particular medium (teaching guys to be better defenders) and all he has to say is, "I don't know."

I'm all aboard the "let's gives Spags time to do what he does" train, but hearing him say he "can't put his finger on" what is going so wrong is very disheartening to me, when many people can clearly see missed tackles (fundamentals), missed assignments (more fundamentals, especially in a zone scheme), and lack of energy from start till finish.

Don't know where to start PLEASE

How many of us would get a strange look from our boss if he came to us to tell us we were doing a bad job, and our reply was what Spags said

Well. Some of ya'll (not just Shoe, and I mean this in a FRIENDLY way) are just looking for stuff to trip out on... he is not telling you ANY thing different from what you all are saying here, he's just saying it in a more diplomatic or level-headed way!

I mean he has got to be pulling his hair out over this. It's HIS NAME going on the defense in the history books, if this keeps up. You think he likes it?

When he is saying he "doesn't know where to start," he simply means, it's because there are MULTIPLE, simultaneous problems with this defense.

Think of it like a medical patient, who comes wheeling into the ER, and has many, many problems: he's overdosed on pills, which caused him to fall asleep at the wheel and be in a car wreck, he has high blood pressure, diabetes, kidney failure, he's allergic to a bunch of stuff, he's lost a lot of blood, and now he's having a heart attack right there on the gurney because of the stress of the car accident.

Even the best, most experienced world-class doctor is going to have problems with sorting out THAT kind of situation, where to even START fixing the guy on the gurney. Translation: we're fricked.

"can't put my finger on it" simply means, the players suck...that more than one player sucks, and they suck differently at different times...if it was one player or one scheme or one THING that was not working, Spags could put his finger on it and EASILY fix it for us. Or at least make it tolerably bad, acceptable. Kinda like Gregg Williams used to do a lot of.

But it's like Frogger, or that video game where the gnomes come popping out of the holes and you have to hit them with a hammer. He's got to be pulling his hair out over this thing, his hair is practically turning gray before our eyes!

But, he said in the longer version of the interview that he IS in fact losing sleep over this defense, so at least there's that!

Danno · 10-30-2012, 12:06 PM

Here's a thought...

You are forcing your scheme on a defense with players not suited for it?

We have CB's who are better at man, yet they're playing mostly zone.

You have the tradition SS/FS, yet they're playing 2-deep.

Your best DT is more of a NT, which doesn't really fit your scheme.

You're scheme relies on front 4 pressure, and LB's that can cover well, which we haven't got.

FinSaint · 10-30-2012, 12:11 PM

Originally Posted by x626xBlack

Good point, it wasn't a style it was a model.... Organized chaos.

GW is not a better defensive coordinator than Spags just smarter, and since Spags admitted he had a lot better talent its possibly the players that made Spags and not Spags that made the players.

GW realized what he had, and FOUND a way to make it work out.... The Bountys were like PCP... super charge a bunch of players and they become more difficult to handle.

Explains Fujita leaving.

At the end of the day the reality is that our defense is just bad... A few decent players but as a whole unit its awful... The only way it has any success is to confuse QBs and blitz with so many people that WRs have to pass block.

GW had quite a few more drafts and offseasons to get players he liked and suited his scheme to come down to New Orleans. Now, Spags has to try and make that personnel, which GW largely brought in, to work for him in a very different scheme than what perhaps their natural abilities are suited for.

So, it's all still very relative, and I would definitely not call GW a smarter DC than Spags when everyone in the building knew that GW was going to blitz and then he do it again, again, again, again, and again. Have you forgotten all the big plays GW's defense allowed during the past couple of season?!

Spags is just being honest about the situation, and the feeling I got from his press conference was that when he was saying that he didn't know how to fix the problem(s) at this point in time... he was referring to the fact that at times the defense - even on this Sunday - shows flashes of being a good defense, but then it all inexplicably falls apart a few moments later. That might be something that is very hard to fix or even to figure out where to begin fixing it, since the season is half way over and big personnel changes are no longer really possible.

I don't know, it's all very disappointing since I really thought that the defense would be a top 15 caliber defense this year with Spags as the DC, but I for one will still defend the guy and the job he is doing.

FinSaint · 10-30-2012, 12:13 PM

Originally Posted by Danno

Here's a thought...

You are forcing your scheme on a defense with players not suited for it?

We have CB's who are better at man, yet they're playing mostly zone.

You have the tradition SS/FS, yet they're playing 2-deep.

Your best DT is more of a NT, which doesn't really fit your scheme.

You're scheme relies on front 4 pressure, and LB's that can cover well, which we haven't got.

Right, that is all true.

But at some point you have to wonder if it really was Spags forcing his scheme on this team or the franchise seeking out his services and wanting him to, even forcibly if necessary, to implement his scheme for better or worse?!

Danno · 10-30-2012, 12:30 PM

Originally Posted by FinSaint

Right, that is all true.

But at some point you have to wonder if it really was Spags forcing his scheme on this team or the franchise seeking out his services and wanting him to, even forcibly if necessary, to implement his scheme for better or worse?!

But that wouldn't be smart during this past off-season. If we had a lot of cap to play with and a lot of picks I could see that. But why sacrifice a season just to change from a blitz heavy man scheme to zone?

FinSaint · 10-30-2012, 12:39 PM

Originally Posted by Danno

But that wouldn't be smart during this past off-season. If we had a lot of cap to play with and a lot of picks I could see that. But why sacrifice a season just to change from a blitz heavy man scheme to zone?

IDK, I was just speculating.

But, they certainly didn't expect the rest of the offseason to go as it did after they hired Spags. So maybe they thought that they could make it work in the sense that at worst it would've been a transition season to another scheme while SP and Brees would protect the defense by lighting up the opposing defenses like they did last season?!

Like I said, I don't know, but some blame has to fall on the front office as well if Spags really was/is such a bad fit for the defensive personnel the Saints have at the moment as people seem to think.

73Saint · 10-30-2012, 01:08 PM

That was a damn good analogy, SaintsBro...

RailBoss · 10-30-2012, 01:29 PM

If SP were on the sidelines would the D be this bad. This question keeps popping up in my mind.

AlaskaSaints · 10-30-2012, 01:57 PM

We've been to the playoffs the last two years with most of this D. Now, they weren't good enough to keep us there, but we were there.

Add Spags and it falls apart.

I like Dannos reply. It's the only one that makes sense.

Alaska

10-30-2012, 11:54 AM	#11
TheOak 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Cypress Tx. Posts: 19,027	Re: Steve Spagnuolo says there’s no magic fix for the Saints’ defense Originally Posted by Papa Voodoo Start by watching game tape of Greg Williams defenses and start using that model...blitz like a wild man. Good point, it wasn't a style it was a model.... Organized chaos. GW is not a better defensive coordinator than Spags just smarter, and since Spags admitted he had a lot better talent its possibly the players that made Spags and not Spags that made the players. GW realized what he had, and FOUND a way to make it work out.... The Bountys were like PCP... super charge a bunch of players and they become more difficult to handle. Explains Fujita leaving. At the end of the day the reality is that our defense is just bad... A few decent players but as a whole unit its awful... The only way it has any success is to confuse QBs and blitz with so many people that WRs have to pass block. Rell&Gold likes this.
	It's not what you look at that matters, it's what you see. ~ Henry David Thoreau

10-30-2012, 12:04 PM	#12
SaintsBro Site Donor Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: in line with my ridiculous CLEAR PLASTIC BAG Posts: 3,650 Blog Entries: 3	Re: Steve Spagnuolo says there’s no magic fix for the Saints’ defense Originally Posted by Shoe. For a world-class, experienced, practicing professional in a field full of intense competition, those words are especially troubling to me. How can you say you don't know where to start? Are there not enough obvious, glaring deficiencies? This dude is supposed to be one of the best on the planet at this particular medium (teaching guys to be better defenders) and all he has to say is, "I don't know." I'm all aboard the "let's gives Spags time to do what he does" train, but hearing him say he "can't put his finger on" what is going so wrong is very disheartening to me, when many people can clearly see missed tackles (fundamentals), missed assignments (more fundamentals, especially in a zone scheme), and lack of energy from start till finish. Don't know where to start PLEASE How many of us would get a strange look from our boss if he came to us to tell us we were doing a bad job, and our reply was what Spags said Well. Some of ya'll (not just Shoe, and I mean this in a FRIENDLY way) are just looking for stuff to trip out on... he is not telling you ANY thing different from what you all are saying here, he's just saying it in a more diplomatic or level-headed way! I mean he has got to be pulling his hair out over this. It's HIS NAME going on the defense in the history books, if this keeps up. You think he likes it? When he is saying he "doesn't know where to start," he simply means, it's because there are MULTIPLE, simultaneous problems with this defense. Think of it like a medical patient, who comes wheeling into the ER, and has many, many problems: he's overdosed on pills, which caused him to fall asleep at the wheel and be in a car wreck, he has high blood pressure, diabetes, kidney failure, he's allergic to a bunch of stuff, he's lost a lot of blood, and now he's having a heart attack right there on the gurney because of the stress of the car accident. Even the best, most experienced world-class doctor is going to have problems with sorting out THAT kind of situation, where to even START fixing the guy on the gurney. Translation: we're fricked. "can't put my finger on it" simply means, the players suck...that more than one player sucks, and they suck differently at different times...if it was one player or one scheme or one THING that was not working, Spags could put his finger on it and EASILY fix it for us. Or at least make it tolerably bad, acceptable. Kinda like Gregg Williams used to do a lot of. But it's like Frogger, or that video game where the gnomes come popping out of the holes and you have to hit them with a hammer. He's got to be pulling his hair out over this thing, his hair is practically turning gray before our eyes! But, he said in the longer version of the interview that he IS in fact losing sleep over this defense, so at least there's that! spkb25, 73Saint, jlouhill and 2 others like this.

10-30-2012, 12:06 PM	#13
Danno Truth Addict Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Spanish Fort, AL (via NO and B/R) Posts: 24,723	Re: Steve Spagnuolo says there’s no magic fix for the Saints’ defense Here's a thought... You are forcing your scheme on a defense with players not suited for it? We have CB's who are better at man, yet they're playing mostly zone. You have the tradition SS/FS, yet they're playing 2-deep. Your best DT is more of a NT, which doesn't really fit your scheme. You're scheme relies on front 4 pressure, and LB's that can cover well, which we haven't got. AlaskaSaints likes this.

10-30-2012, 12:11 PM	#14
FinSaint Site Donor 2015 Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Finland... formerly Southern Virginia Posts: 4,961	Re: Steve Spagnuolo says there’s no magic fix for the Saints’ defense Originally Posted by x626xBlack Good point, it wasn't a style it was a model.... Organized chaos. GW is not a better defensive coordinator than Spags just smarter, and since Spags admitted he had a lot better talent its possibly the players that made Spags and not Spags that made the players. GW realized what he had, and FOUND a way to make it work out.... The Bountys were like PCP... super charge a bunch of players and they become more difficult to handle. Explains Fujita leaving. At the end of the day the reality is that our defense is just bad... A few decent players but as a whole unit its awful... The only way it has any success is to confuse QBs and blitz with so many people that WRs have to pass block. GW had quite a few more drafts and offseasons to get players he liked and suited his scheme to come down to New Orleans. Now, Spags has to try and make that personnel, which GW largely brought in, to work for him in a very different scheme than what perhaps their natural abilities are suited for. So, it's all still very relative, and I would definitely not call GW a smarter DC than Spags when everyone in the building knew that GW was going to blitz and then he do it again, again, again, again, and again. Have you forgotten all the big plays GW's defense allowed during the past couple of season?! Spags is just being honest about the situation, and the feeling I got from his press conference was that when he was saying that he didn't know how to fix the problem(s) at this point in time... he was referring to the fact that at times the defense - even on this Sunday - shows flashes of being a good defense, but then it all inexplicably falls apart a few moments later. That might be something that is very hard to fix or even to figure out where to begin fixing it, since the season is half way over and big personnel changes are no longer really possible. I don't know, it's all very disappointing since I really thought that the defense would be a top 15 caliber defense this year with Spags as the DC, but I for one will still defend the guy and the job he is doing.
	"I'm not bashing people, I'm bashing their opinions because in my opinion their opinion is wrong" - Danno

10-30-2012, 12:13 PM	#15
FinSaint Site Donor 2015 Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Finland... formerly Southern Virginia Posts: 4,961	Re: Steve Spagnuolo says there’s no magic fix for the Saints’ defense Originally Posted by Danno Here's a thought... You are forcing your scheme on a defense with players not suited for it? We have CB's who are better at man, yet they're playing mostly zone. You have the tradition SS/FS, yet they're playing 2-deep. Your best DT is more of a NT, which doesn't really fit your scheme. You're scheme relies on front 4 pressure, and LB's that can cover well, which we haven't got. Right, that is all true. But at some point you have to wonder if it really was Spags forcing his scheme on this team or the franchise seeking out his services and wanting him to, even forcibly if necessary, to implement his scheme for better or worse?! spkb25 likes this.

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10-30-2012, 12:30 PM	#16
Danno Truth Addict Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Spanish Fort, AL (via NO and B/R) Posts: 24,723	Re: Steve Spagnuolo says there’s no magic fix for the Saints’ defense Originally Posted by FinSaint Right, that is all true. But at some point you have to wonder if it really was Spags forcing his scheme on this team or the franchise seeking out his services and wanting him to, even forcibly if necessary, to implement his scheme for better or worse?! But that wouldn't be smart during this past off-season. If we had a lot of cap to play with and a lot of picks I could see that. But why sacrifice a season just to change from a blitz heavy man scheme to zone?

10-30-2012, 12:39 PM	#17
FinSaint Site Donor 2015 Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Finland... formerly Southern Virginia Posts: 4,961	Re: Steve Spagnuolo says there’s no magic fix for the Saints’ defense Originally Posted by Danno But that wouldn't be smart during this past off-season. If we had a lot of cap to play with and a lot of picks I could see that. But why sacrifice a season just to change from a blitz heavy man scheme to zone? IDK, I was just speculating. But, they certainly didn't expect the rest of the offseason to go as it did after they hired Spags. So maybe they thought that they could make it work in the sense that at worst it would've been a transition season to another scheme while SP and Brees would protect the defense by lighting up the opposing defenses like they did last season?! Like I said, I don't know, but some blame has to fall on the front office as well if Spags really was/is such a bad fit for the defensive personnel the Saints have at the moment as people seem to think.
	"I'm not bashing people, I'm bashing their opinions because in my opinion their opinion is wrong" - Danno

10-30-2012, 01:08 PM	#18
73Saint 1000 Posts + Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: NOLA Posts: 2,336	Re: Steve Spagnuolo says there’s no magic fix for the Saints’ defense That was a damn good analogy, SaintsBro... Rell&Gold likes this.

10-30-2012, 01:29 PM	#19
RailBoss 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: South Of The Mason Dixon Line Posts: 7,113	Re: Steve Spagnuolo says there’s no magic fix for the Saints’ defense If SP were on the sidelines would the D be this bad. This question keeps popping up in my mind.

10-30-2012, 01:57 PM	#20
AlaskaSaints 1000 Posts + Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Anchorage, AK Posts: 2,484 Blog Entries: 2	Re: Steve Spagnuolo says there’s no magic fix for the Saints’ defense We've been to the playoffs the last two years with most of this D. Now, they weren't good enough to keep us there, but we were there. Add Spags and it falls apart. I like Dannos reply. It's the only one that makes sense. Alaska

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