Re: Jump on the Brees' fault bandwagon
 

Obviously the most expensive part on my car, the 558 hp Super Charged motor is why I cant drive my car on a flat tire, its also the reason the wipers dont clear all of the water from my wind shield....

I really love to blame it for my DVD player not being able to play scratched DVDs.

Re: Jump on the Brees' fault bandwagon
 

Funny enough, I never said it was all Brees' fault that the Saints lost that game, but that he was probably the single biggest reason why it happened.

On the Brooks pick 6 play, Brees had a good pocket and no pass rusher in his face when he threw that ball, so it's really hard for me to blame any other player as much as Brees for that play and its outcome.

The pass pressure increased as the game went on, and that was directly correlated with the fact that the Saints once again pretty abandoned the run in the 2nd half as they were playing catch up for pretty much the whole 2nd half. The 49ers knew that the Saints were going to pass, and, therefore, they could dial up more pass pressure packages because of that. If the Saints would've gone into the halftime with a TD lead, things could've been very different in that aspect as well, because even if the 49ers would've scored on their first drive of the 3rd quarter, the game would've only been tied at that point and the Saints could've put up a drive themselves for the lead.

Now I know that's a lot of would've-could've-should'ves, but Brees made that costly mistake to end the 2nd quarter when he was not forced to do it by pass rushers and while he had clear vision of Brooks dropping back from the line of scrimmage to be in position to intercept any incoming passes. Maybe it was Brees' hubris of being able to make that difficult pass to where there were four 49er players and only one Saints or maybe there's another explanation, but that was an unnecessary and costly mistake he made, which changed the complexion of that game by a great deal.

Re: Jump on the Brees' fault bandwagon
 

I think it can be summed up by saying Drew Brees didn't play up to Drew Brees' standards in that 49er game, which is primarily why we lost that 49er game.

It can also be said that if we replaced Brees with an average NFL QB in that 49er game, we get blown out by 3 or 4 scores.

Re: Jump on the Brees' fault bandwagon
 

I totally agree, and I was simply talking about this 49ers game when I was placing blame on Brees - not about the season as a whole.

And I agree that replacing Brees with another QB, even one that was above average, would in all likelihood result in more losses and with less overall scoring, and I'm in no way saying that Brees should be replaced!

But - just to play the devil's advocate - if you were to replace Brees with an average QB: a lot of other things would also change along with that if we are not talking about a scenario where Brees wound up on the IR and had to be replaced by Daniel. For example, $20M could land a couple of studs on the defense and/or an excellent pair of OTs, who could create a dominant run game and/or really good pass protection for the average QB taking over for Brees. So, it's really hard to just imagine a scenario where Brees was replaced by another QB, but the rest of the team remained the same - especially the offensive game-plan.

Re: Jump on the Brees' fault bandwagon
 

Resource allocation is a definite factor, but looking at the last dozen Superbowl winners its apparent the one denominator is a franchise QB.

Defense no longer wins championships in our current pass happy league. Recent rule changes have seen to that.

I think 20 million for a franchise QB is necessary. Its what we do with the other 100 million that'll decide if we win another one or not.

Re: Jump on the Brees' fault bandwagon
 

True, I was only saying that it's very hard to just think about how different things would be if we were to replace Brees with a lower quality QB and keep it relative to how the rest of the team would be structured and how they'd perform within that system, because they definitely couldn't run the same offensive system with a lesser QB at the helm.

Re: Jump on the Brees' fault bandwagon
 

Same number of possessions as last year, 5 minutes per game less possession time. BY DEFINITION, not a defensive problem. 4 healthy RBs. Until Sunday, entire O-Line healthy. And, neither pick6 was due to pressure.

Good thing that Brees doesn't have the imperative to call audibles or give input on strategy before or during games. Otherwise, the observations about not running the ball, or time of possession on most 3-outs being under 70 seconds would be his fault, rather than the OC or HC.

Last season we were the best offense, scoring 5 more points, holding the ball 5 more minutes, committing fewer turnovers, punting 30% less.

Same people. Only they make more guaranteed money.

Re: Jump on the Brees' fault bandwagon
 

The time of possession is a concern, but it is only compounded by the fact that the Saints want to be a fast pace offense, and therefore, if their drives are cut short of scoring or driving the length of the field, they won't take as much time off the clock as the opposition would with the same amount of snaps.

That's one of the things that f.e. Brees was commenting on when the beginning of the season was played under the control of the replacement refs, claiming that the replacement refs were hindering the way Saints want to play on the offense because it was taking so much longer for them to spot the ball compared to the standard refs.

Maybe that tilt in the time of possession is related strongly to the fact that SP isn't calling the plays this season, which has resulted in more 3 and outs or just more repetitive play calling as a whole which has made it easier for the opposition to stop Saints' offensive drives?!

Re: Jump on the Brees' fault bandwagon
 

Source?

Re: Jump on the Brees' fault bandwagon
 

Same people? Ben Grubbs? Bryce Harris? Joe Morgan for part of the year instead of Devery? Charles Brown? That's nowhere near the same people as last season. Not to even mention the new receivers coach, the O-line coach doubling as head coach, and the overall lack of a head coach to put the game plan together each week. Everything is exactly the same as last year, totally.

Re: Jump on the Brees' fault bandwagon
 

So well stated. And I'll add.

I would love to have Aaron Rodgers ( better than average qb, dubbed better than Drew) who doesn't make that one mistake per game, and has a healthy O line, and be at home and go up against this Defense...... O, wait..... they did it to Green Bay to in Lambeau too!!!!!

Re: Jump on the Brees' fault bandwagon
 

Well, I do agree with Oak's comparison in its essence.

But I would counter that while it's certainly not the expensive motor's fault if your wipers are not working - I bet you're still a lot more critical of how the expensive motor performs at its duty and much more disappointed when it doesn't perform up to its expectations compared to how critical/disappointed you are at the inexpensive wipers when they don't meet your expectations?!

Also, the Vikes won against the 49ers, and while it was at home it proves that you can't really draw direct comparisons between previous match ups and their results because as has been stated here numerous times before: every team matches differently against each other.

Re: Jump on the Brees' fault bandwagon
 

So Xan, make it easy for me. Are you saying that the only difference between this year and and last year is that Brees is now making more money and that that is reason we're not dominating like we did last year? It's all on Brees and his contract?

Re: Jump on the Brees' fault bandwagon
 

It's not just Brees' guaranteed money.

So what IS the difference between this and last year? Easier schedule? (yes) New offense? (no) Missing Robert Meachem? (maybe) Not enough team football knowledge? (obviously)

If Sean Payton is that critical to the success of the team, such that, without much change in personnel or scheme, offense (and defense) has dropped production that significantly, then we are paying too much for what's on the field and in the staff rooms.

Its going to be blown up next year anyway, get on with it. Rip that band aid off.

Re: Jump on the Brees' fault bandwagon
 

I was comparing Green Bay more so for the makeup of their team. It compares similarly to ours. As a matter of fact, in this instance( to make a horrible analogy that I know I already hate myself for thinking) we would be considered the poor mans Green Bay. And you can compare matchups if we are talking about the Same team ( Frisco) vs teams with a similar skillset that being N.O and G.B

Re: Jump on the Brees' fault bandwagon
 

"Paying too much for what's on the field?" Huh? We are under the salary cap. The 49ers and Falcons are both in worse cap shape than us, with less room, they are paying more for what they have "on the field." Are they "paying too much" too?

What we are clearly seeing this year has nothing to do with paying too much for players, it has EVERYTHING to do with what happens when you don't pay for a head coach, because he is SUSPENDED.

Re: Jump on the Brees' fault bandwagon
 

Wow! People give up so easy on a team and a player. If you want to support a team that wins 100% of the time, then you should become a fan of, well there are no teams that win 100% of the time. The Saints need the support of the fans and Drew Brees certaintly has earned our support and respect.

Re: Jump on the Brees' fault bandwagon
 

First of all, this is not targeted at you aintasinner, but more at the sentiment you made in your comment.

I see no contradictions between being a supportive fan of the Saints giving out praises to players when they are due, but also at the same time being able to be critical of those same players when their performances warrant such criticism.

To me that has nothing to do with "being a good fan" and if "being a good fan" means that I'd have to blindly cheer for the team after each game regardless of how they perform then I don't really want to be a good fan, at least in that sense of the definition. These boards would become rather tiresome fairly quickly if all we did was praise the Saints' players and never questioned the actions of the coaches and the front office.

I don't think I've personally ever been guilty of overreactions on these boards, as in "oh my god, we need to cut all of these players that missed a tackle last night." I am at certain times concerned about how players perform on the field and what decisions are being made by the coaches and the FO, but that is only because I care about the Saints so much and because I'd like to see each and every player to ever wear the black & gold do their absolute best night after night and that every decision ever made by the coaches and the FO to be in the very best interest of the team.

I fully support and respect Drew Brees both as a player and as an individual, but that doesn't mean that I can't be critical of him when there's a reason for me to be that way - the same goes for each and every other player.


//he steps of the soap box and lights it on fire.

:bng:

Re: Jump on the Brees' fault bandwagon
 

I believe there comes a point to where you have to ask what you are getting for your money. I don't mind spending 20 million a year for a QB, but I would think that when you spend that type of money, you don't have to settle for a QB that has to stand on his tip-toes just to see who is open. Having to stand on your toes should deduct a million or two, IMO.

I also believe that a QB has to take responsibility for what happened on the field regardless of whether it is fault or not. If he want the guy to pick up the blitz the next time, or make a circus catch...or whatever...it helps to have their backs in times like these. JMO, though.

Re: Jump on the Brees' fault bandwagon
 

I support Drew Brees, and yeah I compaired himto farve when he gets rattled and tries to force a play that goes from just being dead to a nail in the coffin (ie. pick 6)
However the fact he held out to be the highest paid player in the NFL = the best player. The only thing I get upset about is how when he does make a mistake its always for some other reason,
Colston not catching a ball thrown 9' feet in the air.
O line not blocking
Defense on the field too long

Things like that. I guess I just as upset as everyone else. However after today I'm done with this blaming crap. I want the 2nd lose to Atlanta to come from us.

Re: Jump on the Brees' fault bandwagon
 

Correct.

As far as the motor on my CTS-V or my SS before that, or any of my TA's.. There are elements that effect the motors efficiency and performance. I know these things and expect them. That motor will not put out 558 every day, 24 hours a day, regardless of conditions. I also know there are some gives and takes with that motor, as with any motor /QB.

Cold dry weather will take HP over 558 as it is dense and contains more O2.
A hot humid day will reduce performance.
While MPG is the last thing you think of when you own that car you should still be aware that mileage is worse in the winter. More cold dense air = MAF signals computer to use more fuel.

Also, while on a perfect track and day it will hot 60 in 3.6s, bad tires, breaking traction all effect over all performance.

Some peoples expectations are outright absurd. Drew is expected to lead men with perfection.

The facts are the facts
Patton lost fkn soldiers.
Six Sigma still has a potential error rate of 3.4 defects per million.
The best neurosurgeon has lost a patient on the table.
Drew Brees has thrown interceptions. He will throw another one.... and another one; acknowledging it is one thing, dwelling and hating on the man because of it is a bit fkn elitist. Being invidious in every single conversation because he makes more $ than anyone on these forums is pure envy. Don't begrudge a man for what he makes, if someone is to be lambasted it should be the guy that pays him.

Drew Brees is our best hope for another Super Bowl.... another win this season.

Re: Jump on the Brees' fault bandwagon
 

See title of thread and OP. In your previous replies while you have not said it was ALL his fault, you have not referenced any other factors. I apologize if I drew the wrong conclusion.

On Hubris - That is an NFL QB, while Brees made a costly error in judgement he is no different from P. Manning ending the hopes of SB 44 by throwing a pick 6. By nature of the beast taking chances and fitting balls into tight spaces (thats what she said) is what differentiates a good QB from a great QB. The greater % of their passes in the NFL are into tight spots... its a gamble.. a crap shoot.. You walk away either brilliant or an idiot...

Re: Jump on the Brees' fault bandwagon
 

Sources please.

Re: Jump on the Brees' fault bandwagon
 

TeamRankings.com: Predictions, Picks, Rankings, Odds & Stats for NCAAB, NBA, NFL, NCAAF and MLB
NFL.com - Official Site of the National Football League (gamebooks)

Re: Jump on the Brees' fault bandwagon
 

I must be missing the week 11 2011 season cumulative stats that you would have needed for the comparison.

Re: Jump on the Brees' fault bandwagon
 

Wow who still drives a TA? Are you from Abbeville or something?

I've had 1 Camaro 4 TA's in my lifetime... From the berry :)

Re: Jump on the Brees' fault bandwagon
 

As a matter a fact I am from Abbeville :cool:.. 2 WS-6 TAs, a Z-28 and a Camaro SS 11'.

Re: Jump on the Brees' fault bandwagon
 

From New Iberia...
I worked for Baldwin redi mix for a few years before I joined the Coast Guard and moved away...

Re: Jump on the Brees' fault bandwagon
 

... the thought that flashed in Brees' brain when he threw the 1st pick 6

Re: Jump on the Brees' fault bandwagon
 

If you are from The Berry I am sure we know a lot of the same people.