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Who Needs To Be Cut Or Traded?
We obviously need to make some changes to upgrade our roster. Who do you think we need to cut or trade so that we can get the talent we need? And why?
Shanle. We all know why. Vilma. He's old and doesn't tackle well anymore. He's not a play maker. Ellis. He's never been good. Another first round bust. Jenkins. He can't tackle and takes pitiful angles. Will Smith. Once again, we all know why. Strief. At best he's a back up. Ingram. He's never going to fit this system and he has trade value. Bushrod. He is only good when he's getting down field to block. I am on the fence with numerous other players like de la Puenta, Harper, P Rob. and Hawthorne.:flush: Also, who would you like to bring in to replace them? |
Re: Who Needs To Be Cut Or Traded?
Well, Shanle, Ellis, and Bushrod are all hopefully gone after the season ends, so unless Loomis has a brain-fart - we shouldn't worry about those guys.
Jenkins and Harper have been really frustrating whole season long, and even in this last game they both whiffed on numerous tackles. The reality is that Harper probably stays unless they find a good trading partner, because he is still owed guaranteed money on his contract, and it would be hard to find a better SS with the money they'd save by cutting him. Jenkins might improve for next season, but I highly doubt that. He'd be someone they might even cut if no one wants to make a trade for him, since his contract is fairly cheap. In any case, it would be nice to see more athleticism from the safety corps, but I don't know if there are any real impact players for those spots in the coming FA pool or the draft?! They desperately need better offensive tackles on both sides, and I'm still hopeful that Marcel Jones will rehab well from his injury and develop into a starter quality RT - meaning better quality than Strief is. I'd definitely keep Hawthorne, because we haven't yet seen how good of a player he can be - how he was in Seattle. With a full offseason without any injuries and a second year in Spags' system, he'll be an impact player on the LB corps. Vilma is a much harder case, because I guess it all depends on what the Bountygate fallout will eventually be when they finally get it all sorted out. He might well be suspended for the first half of next season if the rest of the suspension is upheld, so in that situation it would probably make more sense to cut him and be done with it. But he could still be a good player for the Saints if he continues to rehab his knees and if he comes back stronger next season. He undoubtedly still has some great leadership qualities and he can read and dissect plays with the best of them - if only he could get his speed and confidence back, he'd make more of those tackles he has been missing. Smith should be cut if it's at all financially feasible, but a trade would naturally be a much better solution if they could only find someone who was interested in him. The key positions of improvement for next season are definitely 1) the defensive front 4, because they have to find better pass rushers from the edge and better tackles to create some interior pressure. 2) the offensive line, and by this I basically mean the tackle positions. 3) the defensive backfield, and while the CB situation isn't really that bad if the guys would only find a way to stay healthy, the safety pair they have at the moment just isn't working. |
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Defense?? Much will depend if Spagnuolo stays or geauxs...
Jenkins will be moved to RCB/NB with less responsibilities allowing his athleticism to be maximized; Corey White should be given an opportunity as a Saftey where he has the size to make an impact; Greer, Robinson, Patrick will be kept for continuity though I think injury and age has exposed Greer and we could look for a shutdown corner in the coming draft; Bunckley has proven a solid nose tackle and Akiem Hicks has showed he can contribute as much as the current starters; the Linebackers are still in need of upgrade considering Vilma's age, and lack of continuity from this unity due to injuries; Martez should be given an opportunity at RDE in Spag's system to see if either Martez has a Saints future or if it is time to consider taking advantage of his talents and moving to a 3-4 (I'd argue that Wilson should have started three games ago to see if Smith still had any left in the tank)...the Saints will begin to clear the cap for the next year by cutting ties with Harper, Shanle, Smith, Ellis... Offense? Almost everyone agreed before the season that we could improve at both OT positions - after what has taking place so far this season, now a major committment will have to be made considering the investment in QB and that we have four dynamic RB and are unable to have success consitently from them because of inconsistent play from the Tackles; we still are looking for a true WR complement on the outside to Colston though we've yet to see if Toon can be that complement - but the WR corps is trending up, yet again; We Will Trade a RB and with the recent aborted attempts to run one of the best screen offenses in the league through Ivory, Ingram, I think it was exposed some may be thinking of trading PT as the oldest, most expensive; but, most important to the future of this offense now is Jimmy Graham's contract extension... The ST will remain though Hartley may receive a msg when 3-4 FA Kickers are in camp next season... |
Re: Who Needs To Be Cut Or Traded?
Remember what happened in Indy. They paid Manning a ton of money and couldn't afford a supporting cast. If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck and quacks like a duck........
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Jeanpiere is right. Jenkins needs to go back to corner. He's aware of where the ball is at when it's in the air which is what we need from our corners the most. He's made lots of good tackling plays that helped our defense make great stops and I feel like there would be more if he were on the outside. Also Ingram just needs another year and an improved offensive line that can open holes more often than not to power through.
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Re: Who Needs To Be Cut Or Traded?
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What?! Jenkins has probably been missing the most tackles in the secondary, he seems to be in the right position - or at least close to it - on most occasions, but he has been whiffing on tackles for couple of seasons now and it has hurt especially on the run defense this season. He might work as the nickle, but we must remember that he was converted into a safety because he didn't have the speed to be a shut down corner. Even though that Vincent Jackson catch up was impressive, I think it spoke more about Jackson's lack of speed at the time than about Jenkins' great speed. I mean, I'll give you that Jenkins has made some key tackles in some situations which were maybe hyperbolized by their nature - those goal line stances come to mind - but as a whole he hasn't been making enough impact plays to warrant a label of a difference maker in the defensive backfield. It's sad really, because before last season I really thought that Jenkins would develop into a top tier safety, but that was not to be. |
Re: Who Needs To Be Cut Or Traded?
Defense I would say:
Scott Shanle- 100% needs to go. Sedrick Ellis- Ellis is another one we need to get rid of. He has not done anything since we drafted him. Total bust Roman Harper- Its time we move one from him. We could get someone much better Vilma- Getting old, needs to go Malcolm Jenkins- Hits really hard, but is just too inconsistent. Probably needs to go or maybe try him back at corner Patrick Robinson- Do I need to say anything? Offense Devery Henderson- Just like Jenkins, he is too inconsistent Mark Ingram- I am not sure about him yet. I'm for giving him alittle more time, but he has not been worth that #1 pick we used on him so far. Zach Strief- Just not good |
Re: Who Needs To Be Cut Or Traded?
Shanle - has to be cut, the coaches even know he's a liability and have kept him inactive for the last 4 weeks
Will smith - still makes a couple plays here and there but is getting on and has lost a lot of speed, if we could get someone that's a double of cam Jordan playing opposite him I'd love it, cam is a very good player Sed Ellis - second coming of warren sapp type player hey? Yeah right Devery Henderson - love devery for what he's done for us, but who is catching the deep passes now? Joe Morgan is, every time the ball goes deep it's for joe Morgan and he's making plays! Strief and Bushrod - these two get a section by themselves because they operate as turnstiles on gameday Jenkins hasn't become the safety I thought he would, and you watch his highlight tape from Ohio state, it's two totally different players, the one from Ohio state was a beast in coverage and layed out anyone who caught the ball, not like that now I personally like roman Harper and think people forget all the plays he's made for us over the years, he not fantastic in coverage obviously but every year he has got better and he should stay in my opinion Vilma - old and done |
Re: Who Needs To Be Cut Or Traded?
All good stuff guys, mostly. Here's my humble take, assuming we keep Spags...
Jenkins - Now that we run mostly zone, he's probably a better fit at CB than he was in Gregg Williams system. I think he a keeper as a versatile CB/FS. Harper - Was worried he'd be miscast in Spags system which is best suited for Left-Right safeties rather than Strong and Free. He's played better than I thought he would, especially in our big nickle where he plays the LB/SS role. But at that salary? I'd keep him if he restructures or perhaps approach him about a possible trade/restructure. Strief - I'd keep him as a solid back-up, but definitely keep bringing in competition for his spot. Bushrod - A servicable LT. Not great but I've seen much much worse in this league. He's also way over-paid so I think we keep him if he resigns at a more cap friendly number and like Strief, keep bringing in players to challenge him. Ellis - Below average results, above average salary. I think he's a goner. Shanle - Would be a good back-up at both OLB spots and should be paid accordingly, which is a notch above vet minimum. Vilma - Father time has reduced him to merely an average LB. His transition to the outside hasn't gone nearly as well as I'd hoped. I think he's a goner. Smith - Still our best RDE, but I think we can do better. Its time for some Mickey Magic or he's a goner. Ivory/Ingram/PT - PT is the most expensive, but I think he's worth it. Ingram and Ivory are relatively cheap and I say keep them both and lets see what happens in 2013 under Paytons coaching. I'd certainly listen to trade offers for any of them, but I wouldn't give either away cheap. Robinson - He's become our best CB. He's still inconsistent but he's a definite keeper. Henderson - Looks like he's slowed down a bit, and his deep speed is the only reason he's still in this league. I think he's fairly affordable so I say he's a keeper for at least 1 more year. He may not make the team next year if Morgan and Toon look great in preseason camp. |
Re: Who Needs To Be Cut Or Traded?
While this is a very good post, the truth is instead of who needs to be cut or traded, it will be more like which players will survive the salary cap purge that is about to happen. Stay tuned...
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Re: Who Needs To Be Cut Or Traded?
It's funny because I was thinking yesterday about how we really should move Jenkins back to corner because it's just not working out having him play safety. You guys read my mind! I want to see Quddus get a shot starting at safety. I can't put my finger on it, but I think he has some potential.
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Re: Who Needs To Be Cut Or Traded?
Information (r) per Spotrac
2013 New Orleans Saints Free Agent Tracker 2013 Free Agents: Jermon Bushrod, T, UFA Rafael Bush, S, UFA Jonathan Casillas, LB, UFA Chase Daniel, QB, UFA Alex Daniels, DT, UFA Brian De La Puente, C, RFA Justin Drescher, C, RFA Sedrick Ellis, DT, UFA Junior Galette, DE, RFA Devery Henderson, WR , UFR Michael Higgins, TE, UFA Nick Hixon, CB, UFA Ramon Humber, LB, UFA Chris Ivory, RB, RFA Elbert Mack, CB, UFA Turk McBride, DE, UFA Eric Olsen, G, RFA William Robinson, T, UFA Courtney Roby, WR, UFA Scott Shanle, LB, UFA |
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Harper? As an SEC fan and now that Hat with Wind Blows Thru Ears has taken LSU out of it, yet again, I'm pulling for Bama and don't want to upset my Alabama brothers about my disgust in a guy who's not only a slow-footed, over-paid, tired-@$$ excuse of a defensive back, but is also afraid of the ball and tackling... P Rob? He has definitely improved; but he wasn't a first rounder and he didn't pick himself; but who was complaining about the FO dropping the ball after we had just had Lombardi Gras; this is what happens when you get 'happy'... Hawthorne? Has a great resume; he can play, but what player will emerge from this forgettable season?!? Quote:
Kenny Phillips, S (Great size, NY just didn't agree with 'em) Jairus Byrd, S (most expensive of this bunch) Glenn Dorsey, DE (Get him home, get some gumbo in him, and wouldn't it be ironic that...) Jaqua Parker, DE (Cleveland's got some good defenders and with that offense, he'll be in great shape) Andre Smith, T (Talent is there, He's Older, He's from AL, Our Track Record w/OL) Ryan Clady, T (I know, it was just a thought) Danario Alexander, WR (This would make the passing game nearly unstoppable with the sheer size... Rolando McClain, LB (He's a bad man...) |
Re: Who Needs To Be Cut Or Traded?
Now that our playoff hopes are almost certainly dashed, it would be a fine time to get the young guys some playing time. The salary-cap cock is coming home to roost, and - for good or ill - we're gonna lose a good many of those UFA's.
We've gotta get better in the trenches, but heck knows how we're supposed to do that on the cheap. I wouldn't cry if both starting OT's depart, but - no matter what Halo says :) - we can't just click over to Craigslist and pick up quality starters. Jake Long, Ryan Clady & Branden Albert will be FA's next season, but are far outta our price range. The quality 2nd-tier guys come with issues: Sebastian Vollmer (injuries), Sam Baker (injuries), Andre Smith (chili cheese fries with extra bacon), etc. Things are much the same on the DL side. Elite guys like Dwight Freeney, Osi Umenyiora, and Cliff Avril won't get a sniff from us. Randy Starks and Henry Melton are interesting, but it's doubtful their teams will let them go. Glenn Dorsey is a possibility, if an unexciting one ... EDIT: Here's a nice little link to some 2013 FA's: 2013 NFL Free Agents |
Re: Who Needs To Be Cut Or Traded?
I am going to skip the Shales and Will Smith's.
Ingram. How many more years does PT have? That is the question. You put Ingram on any other team and he starts every game and becomes a Fantasy football star over night and the Saints look like the dumbest team for letting him go. He needs to play every to every other down. He needs to work and he's not getting it. He is a good RB; he just doesn't get to play a lot. The person that is holding him back is Sproles. I say we keep him. |
Re: Who Needs To Be Cut Or Traded?
And Ivory is holding back Sproles and PT is holding back Ivory - first we run out of RB in a playoff game and then we have so many that our OC is like a Mom with six kids trying to share the love...
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Re: Who Needs To Be Cut Or Traded?
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We all know that we can't realistically replace every player we want or need to replace so we're going to still have some of these players on the team next year. So far, I'm disappointed that Tennant hasn't made enough progress to move into the starting lineup so it's time to upgrade. Our defense is still the area that needs the most improvement so I still say make our move in the first round on the defensive side of the ball. We've been very good and proven we can pick outstanding o-linemen in rounds 4-6 so I'd say we need to look for an impact DE or DT with our first pick, then LB, then CB/S and then look to the o-line. JMHO:D |
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Added my thoughts within the quote of the previous post. |
Re: Who Needs To Be Cut Or Traded?
Since Ivory is RFA, the Saints can just hand him the tender without him being able to even have any contact with other teams, which is why I'm fairly certain he'll be re-signed by the Saints.
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It makes me want to vomit, to think that Falcon fans are coming here and going back to their home site and talking about us "Giving up and talking about getting rid of players".
And talking about Falcon fans talking about taking about us, makes me want to vomit. It's an endless cycle of vomit. :puke: |
Re: Who Needs To Be Cut Or Traded?
Streif -Keep him. He's an adequate starter when healthy. Sometimes has trouble with speed rushers but overall does a pretty good job.
Jenkins -It would be nice if one of the young guys could beat him out but as it stands right now he's the best we have. He's not a great FS but he is a good football player albeit a flawed one. Keep him. Harper -I like Harper. I love the attitude he brings. He's a leader and a real tough guy. His contract is the only reason I could for getting rid of him. Smith -Pretty much the Roman Harper of the DL. Still a good DE but at this point in his career might be a better fit at LDE. Switching positions at his age might not work out though. Restructure or cut. (Even cutting him would be costly though. We still owe him on that signing bonus.) Shanle -Could be the end of the line for the old vet. Deserves more love than he gets for his years of steady service but I think his time has come. Release Henderson -Still a valuable member of the team. Still prone to drops on occasion but he's become a very well rounded WR. The ultimate team player. Age and salary might make it time for Devery to go. Bushrod -A solid LT who is under appreciated by the fan base. Keep him. Ellis -Soft, unproductive. Cut him. Turk McBride -A good player when healthy but that doesn't happen very often. Cut. Vilma -Sadly I think it's time for JV to hang em up. Ingram -Glad I'm not the one who has to decide what to do with this guy. He shows flashes of why we drafted him but there are two guys on the team who do what he does better. (PT and Ivory) But he's too young to give up on just yet and we have a lot invested in him. Pat Robinson -Good CB who is only going to get better. Johnny Patrick -Pretty disappointing season from him. Hopefully he'll turn it around. Definitely need to get more depth on the OL and hopefully we can improve at RT. |
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It was a mistake to draft him and compounded by the "investment" in extra picks to move back in and draft him... He's built for 25 touches a game and that's not going to happen with Brees, Colston, Graham, Sproles, Moore, PT, Ivory, etc... Hanging on to guy because he's a first rounder or for another reason rather than admitting a mistake and moving on makes you pay for the mistake that much longer... As I've said, I don't lay his lack of WOW success for what we did to get him all at his feet; FO, Scouting, Coaches all contributed to this poor decision... The pick should have been used to grab a OT (Carimi, Franklin), or a LB (Ayers) or a DT (Wilkerson - who I advocated) |
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...it's a virus going around, check the CDC... ...But, the collapse this season is finally making us face reality that the FO has been mailing it in, especially since Lombardi Gras... |
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And as far as Failcons fans coming to our site and returning home to tell their troops that we feel defeated. Screw 'em!!! I do feel defeated and I might as well cheer myself up by thinking about a brighter future with better players. So let's drink a lot of beer and vomit together.:cheers: |
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Of course we have something they don't, so... |
Re: Who Needs To Be Cut Or Traded?
Move Jenkins back to corner ... He just cant do the FS thing... Harper I like him personally I don't see him going anywhere... Vilma lost a step and idk if it was him missing so much time he just wasn't tackling great... Hawthorne has been hurt but hasen't really amazed me... Will Smith love ya man but ya just cant bring the pressure... Cam Jordon will be a solid starter for us... We need sum size at CB our Moving Jenkins would help Patrick Robinson he has sum upside has played good at times and not so good.... Bunkley and Hicks looks like our dts with the rotation but ellis got to go... Martez Wilson I would like to see him get more playing time... he could be R Aldon Smith ! and a burner at WR... sum better tackles... N we R set !
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Re: Who Needs To Be Cut Or Traded?
Henderson has never been the same this season after that early hit in the Skins game. Last season he caught everything that was near his zip code.
Not sure if I would put him on the block. |
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perhaps this is mentioned somewhere else - but did anyone else find it weird to have a 25 Bush on the field on special teams?
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I just want to know if he get a cut from the sales of Saints Jerseys bearing rhw name Bush and the number 25 - if so, he and his agent are genius...
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The stats don't really support your claim... Last season Henderson caught 64% of the passes thrown at him, while... Colston caught 75% of the passes thrown at him. Moore caught 71% of the passes thrown at him. Meachem caught 67% of the passes thrown at him. So, in fact Henderson had the worst catch percentage last season out of all the pure wide receivers the Saints had. FOOTBALL OUTSIDERS: Innovative Statistics, Intelligent Analysis | WIDE RECEIVERS 2011 |
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Henderson is more important to the runninggame than the passing game IMHO, he is our best blocker of all WRs which is utterly important. The question here is how much money he will want. I had high hopes for Jenkins and Harper but it isn't happening right now, atleast GW got production from Harper by letting him rush the passer which he did really well. |
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He returned it 70 yards for the TD and they said he was down by contact? He and roby are always the first men down the field on kickoff coverage, Bush is a solid player |
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I think its pretty obvious isnt it?
We cut Drew Brees and Malcom Jenkins and in 2013 we go 19-0. Win all games by 28 points. |
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I'm not sure, but I would think that it has something to do with the fact that they are rather short on receivers while they are stacked at running backs. They probably don't want to risk an injury to Morgan and deplete their receiving corps, because both Sproles and Cadet are able to do the returns and just because of the position they play, they are more accustomed to being hit than Morgan is. Cadet had some great returns in the preseason, so maybe the problems with the returns has more to do with the blockers than the actual returner?! |
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Gotta go:
Ellis - anytime you get outshines by a rookie from parts unknown Canada..... Shanle - I been crying for this cut or release since the days of Scott fajita Smith - starting to notice the decline in games that matter vs games that don't Trade bait: Harper off the two safety's he's the one I'm suprised has an interception...... Ivory: what happens when you dangle a carrot in front of a rabbit? Ingram: same question....... |
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