Rugby Saint II

We obviously need to make some changes to upgrade our roster. Who do you think we need to cut or trade so that we can get the talent we need? And why?

Shanle. We all know why.
Vilma. He's old and doesn't tackle well anymore. He's not a play maker.
Ellis. He's never been good. Another first round bust.
Jenkins. He can't tackle and takes pitiful angles.
Will Smith. Once again, we all know why.
Strief. At best he's a back up.
Ingram. He's never going to fit this system and he has trade value.
Bushrod. He is only good when he's getting down field to block.

I am on the fence with numerous other players like de la Puenta, Harper, P Rob. and Hawthorne.
Also, who would you like to bring in to replace them?

FinSaint

Well, Shanle, Ellis, and Bushrod are all hopefully gone after the season ends, so unless Loomis has a brain-fart - we shouldn't worry about those guys.

Jenkins and Harper have been really frustrating whole season long, and even in this last game they both whiffed on numerous tackles. The reality is that Harper probably stays unless they find a good trading partner, because he is still owed guaranteed money on his contract, and it would be hard to find a better SS with the money they'd save by cutting him. Jenkins might improve for next season, but I highly doubt that. He'd be someone they might even cut if no one wants to make a trade for him, since his contract is fairly cheap. In any case, it would be nice to see more athleticism from the safety corps, but I don't know if there are any real impact players for those spots in the coming FA pool or the draft?!

They desperately need better offensive tackles on both sides, and I'm still hopeful that Marcel Jones will rehab well from his injury and develop into a starter quality RT - meaning better quality than Strief is.

I'd definitely keep Hawthorne, because we haven't yet seen how good of a player he can be - how he was in Seattle. With a full offseason without any injuries and a second year in Spags' system, he'll be an impact player on the LB corps. Vilma is a much harder case, because I guess it all depends on what the Bountygate fallout will eventually be when they finally get it all sorted out. He might well be suspended for the first half of next season if the rest of the suspension is upheld, so in that situation it would probably make more sense to cut him and be done with it. But he could still be a good player for the Saints if he continues to rehab his knees and if he comes back stronger next season. He undoubtedly still has some great leadership qualities and he can read and dissect plays with the best of them - if only he could get his speed and confidence back, he'd make more of those tackles he has been missing.

Smith should be cut if it's at all financially feasible, but a trade would naturally be a much better solution if they could only find someone who was interested in him.

The key positions of improvement for next season are definitely 1) the defensive front 4, because they have to find better pass rushers from the edge and better tackles to create some interior pressure. 2) the offensive line, and by this I basically mean the tackle positions. 3) the defensive backfield, and while the CB situation isn't really that bad if the guys would only find a way to stay healthy, the safety pair they have at the moment just isn't working.

"I'm not bashing people, I'm bashing their opinions because in my opinion their opinion is wrong" - Danno

jeanpierre

Defense?? Much will depend if Spagnuolo stays or geauxs...

Jenkins will be moved to RCB/NB with less responsibilities allowing his athleticism to be maximized; Corey White should be given an opportunity as a Saftey where he has the size to make an impact; Greer, Robinson, Patrick will be kept for continuity though I think injury and age has exposed Greer and we could look for a shutdown corner in the coming draft; Bunckley has proven a solid nose tackle and Akiem Hicks has showed he can contribute as much as the current starters; the Linebackers are still in need of upgrade considering Vilma's age, and lack of continuity from this unity due to injuries; Martez should be given an opportunity at RDE in Spag's system to see if either Martez has a Saints future or if it is time to consider taking advantage of his talents and moving to a 3-4 (I'd argue that Wilson should have started three games ago to see if Smith still had any left in the tank)...the Saints will begin to clear the cap for the next year by cutting ties with Harper, Shanle, Smith, Ellis...

Offense?

Almost everyone agreed before the season that we could improve at both OT positions - after what has taking place so far this season, now a major committment will have to be made considering the investment in QB and that we have four dynamic RB and are unable to have success consitently from them because of inconsistent play from the Tackles; we still are looking for a true WR complement on the outside to Colston though we've yet to see if Toon can be that complement - but the WR corps is trending up, yet again; We Will Trade a RB and with the recent aborted attempts to run one of the best screen offenses in the league through Ivory, Ingram, I think it was exposed some may be thinking of trading PT as the oldest, most expensive; but, most important to the future of this offense now is Jimmy Graham's contract extension...

The ST will remain though Hartley may receive a msg when 3-4 FA Kickers are in camp next season...

It's not that my way is the right way, I just make the right way my way...

vpheughan

Remember what happened in Indy. They paid Manning a ton of money and couldn't afford a supporting cast. If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck and quacks like a duck........

Nemesis

Yet the Colts were perennial playoff threats, sporting a top 3 winning percentage over the last decade...

jeanpierre

But they had no depth, no add'l playmakers, and their team whittled away by attrition; and they have one Superbowl Trophy...

BelieveDat

Jeanpiere is right. Jenkins needs to go back to corner. He's aware of where the ball is at when it's in the air which is what we need from our corners the most. He's made lots of good tackling plays that helped our defense make great stops and I feel like there would be more if he were on the outside. Also Ingram just needs another year and an improved offensive line that can open holes more often than not to power through.

FinSaint

What?!

Jenkins has probably been missing the most tackles in the secondary, he seems to be in the right position - or at least close to it - on most occasions, but he has been whiffing on tackles for couple of seasons now and it has hurt especially on the run defense this season.

He might work as the nickle, but we must remember that he was converted into a safety because he didn't have the speed to be a shut down corner. Even though that Vincent Jackson catch up was impressive, I think it spoke more about Jackson's lack of speed at the time than about Jenkins' great speed.

I mean, I'll give you that Jenkins has made some key tackles in some situations which were maybe hyperbolized by their nature - those goal line stances come to mind - but as a whole he hasn't been making enough impact plays to warrant a label of a difference maker in the defensive backfield. It's sad really, because before last season I really thought that Jenkins would develop into a top tier safety, but that was not to be.

"I'm not bashing people, I'm bashing their opinions because in my opinion their opinion is wrong" - Danno

TheEnigma

Defense I would say:

Scott Shanle- 100% needs to go.
Sedrick Ellis- Ellis is another one we need to get rid of. He has not done anything since we drafted him. Total bust
Roman Harper- Its time we move one from him. We could get someone much better
Vilma- Getting old, needs to go
Malcolm Jenkins- Hits really hard, but is just too inconsistent. Probably needs to go or maybe try him back at corner
Patrick Robinson- Do I need to say anything?

Offense

Devery Henderson- Just like Jenkins, he is too inconsistent
Mark Ingram- I am not sure about him yet. I'm for giving him alittle more time, but he has not been worth that #1 pick we used on him so far.
Zach Strief- Just not good

Marlboro Man

I agree with most of your selections but I'd add Bushrod and De Le Puenta. While I think De Le Puenta has done a fair job, he's too small to really contribute in the run game and too short to do a good job of keeping the d-linemen's hands down so they can't bat down Drew's passes. Bushrod has been borderline for 3 years now and has been needing to be replaced. I think Brown and the next guy are pretty good RT's so I'd leave that alone right now.

We all know that we can't realistically replace every player we want or need to replace so we're going to still have some of these players on the team next year. So far, I'm disappointed that Tennant hasn't made enough progress to move into the starting lineup so it's time to upgrade. Our defense is still the area that needs the most improvement so I still say make our move in the first round on the defensive side of the ball. We've been very good and proven we can pick outstanding o-linemen in rounds 4-6 so I'd say we need to look for an impact DE or DT with our first pick, then LB, then CB/S and then look to the o-line. JMHO