Drew's Arm
 

Ive started this thread a few times and never finished it...

Am I the only one that sees passes usually caught in stride being thrown behind receivers?

When is the last time any of you hears or saw the phrase "Brees throws his receivers open"?

I am in no way saying his arm is gone, but what I have seen of him in the last few games reminds me of the 2010 season when we found out near the end of the season that he played a few games hurt.

I have tendonitis in both rotator cuffs, and impingement. Drew has his his arm nearly ripped out of socket and is slinging 50 passes/game, you cant tell me his shoulders don't hurt when the weather changes etc...

Let me put it into terms that may wake some people up. The QB that has been touted as one of the most intelligent and accurate QB in the NFL just starts throwing wildly inaccurate passes and makes very bad decisions because.... He ran out of waffles?

Re: Drew's Arm
 

Another reason we need our coach back. "IF" his arm is starting to wear out we'll need that running game more than ever.
I think you're on to something...
How many games has he had throwing 50+ attempts?
I'd be willing to bet this year is the most he's had for attempts or atleast on pace for it

Re: Drew's Arm
 

I dont think his arm is wearing out, but I do think he is playing through some discomfort... Payton would not to anything to change that, just as he let him play through the 2010 season. Its not something can be acted on per sey directly with Drew but a Coach can offset his arms use a little to minimize exposure to bad plays.

ALL NFL players play with pain...

Re: Drew's Arm
 

He has been short several times in recent memory but accuracy was always his forte over arm strength to begin with. He has just been a victim of himself trying to force throws in the past few games.

Re: Drew's Arm
 

I agree that the tipped balls, and interceptions are forced throws... Although those used to be passes where he threw someone open.

The defensive receptions where he misses the receiver by 5 yards is not a force.. This coming from a QB that can put a football in a 5 gal bucket.

Re: Drew's Arm
 

I've noticed over the past couple years that his deep passes have deteriorated

His deep passes used to be right on the money and now they seem to fall short

What I base this on is; can anyone remember 2009 vs the patriots, brees threw what I thought what the best pass I have ever seen in my life, play action 49 yard pass that literally hit meachems hands without him extending

Now a days I see drew over throw lance Moore when he's wide open, happened a couple times this season, half of drews pick are ones he throws behind receivers
I'm in no way saying his arm is done, but the deep pass he threw to joe Morgan vs ATL that was picked, seemed to lack zip and drew would normally know not to throw that ball when the safeties are playing deep

Re: Drew's Arm
 

I am in no way saying that Drew is broke. But I agree with what Oak is saying.

Over my many years in the Army I have sustained many injuries. Sholder, knees, back, ect. Most of the year I am in pretty fair shape. However, when I get very active for a long period of time, those injuries start to bother me. Drew isn't a spring chicken anymore. Don't take that as I am saying he is about to head off for the retirement home.

Drew's performance as of late would point to that as being a problem.

We do not run the ball enough. We all know that.

What's the fix? I don't know. It seems as though we start running; the running game is going good, then BAM! It's passes from then on out.

Drew can't keep passing 50+ every game. The tread will get worn out quick.

Re: Drew's Arm
 

The lightbulb moment for me was Drews long pass to Moore against SF where it became a jump ball.

Watch lance start to slow down at the end... He knows..

Re: Drew's Arm
 

Funny you guys are saying this, I too have seen some very noticeable differences recently in his velocity. It simple isn't there a lot of the time. I don't think his arm is shot at this point, but perhaps a few too many hits he has taken this year are catching up to him.

Re: Drew's Arm
 

We have reached game 12 and he did have an extended off-season. Just one of the many reasons trending to a tired arm. Short week, alot of attemps, constant pressure, and so on.

Re: Drew's Arm
 

Is this an attempt to get Chase in this year?

Re: Drew's Arm
 

Due to the lock out there was no off season last year either... Professional athletes train year round regardless of coach or organized team activities.

Re: Drew's Arm
 

And chase took all the snaps in the offseason so drew hasn't got close to over working his arm

We are lucky our receivers battle for the ball, especially that video you posted Oak, Moore put himself on the line for a well under thrown ball

Re: Drew's Arm
 

I disagree on this one. Defense was over the top. If Drew goes any deeper it's (another) pick at worst, Lance getting smashed and dropping the pass at best.

I think a lot of his troubles stem from really one issue: the O-Line. His lack of protection leads to two things:
- his not being able to step through his throws either because he has defenders in his face or because he's rushing the throw because he's ABOUT to have defenders in his face.
- he's getting abused in the pocket. It's got to start messing with your head when you get hit that often.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to make excuses for Drew. I think he should be audibling (is that a word?) into runs more often since Carmichael is obviously oblivious. And he has to see the field better (this is the one that scares me. How does a QB stop being able to read defenses? Worse, how does he get back to being able to do it again?)

Finally, he has to stop trying to carry the whole load himself. I think it's admirable that he wants to be that kind of leader but he's making us predictable.

I really just want the season to end at this point. All I could think during the Falcons came was "Everyone seems to need to take a step back and clear their head." How often does Sproles drop that pass down the sideline that would have gone for, what, 45 yards? Or Moore drop a sure, easy TD? Or Graham get called for PI? Then Drew loses his s**t and tries to throw us back into the game by himself...5 picks.

We're just a mess psychologically and I'm worried someone's going to get hurt as a result.

Re: Drew's Arm
 

Yes he did... Graham on the other hand, on curl routs does not come back for the ball.. He had a few batted away against Atl for that... Thats not just my observation, that came direct from the commentator booth also.

Re: Drew's Arm
 

Footage and an offseason will do that to a player.

Re: Drew's Arm
 

It will be interesting to see what kind of effort there is once we officially don't have a chance.

Re: Drew's Arm
 

That's something coach Payton would be getting in Graham's face for Aswell, if SP was on the sideline graham would learn his lesson real quick

When you learn a curl route the first things they teach you are; quickly breakdown to not let the DB gain ground on you and always come back to the pass incase the DB has made a step on the ball while its in the air

Fundamentals have been killing us this year

Re: Drew's Arm
 

Coach Payton's last instrcutions was to do your job. However the teams mindset is exactly what you just said. :(

Re: Drew's Arm
 

This is what I have been trying to tell folks! Drew trying to be Superman with an O-Line that needs to do its main job and protect the QB, all of the dropped passes and Graham needing the ball to fall right into his hands instead of being the aggressive player he was last year. Maybe Graham is still hurt, but it is frustrating watching the D finally start coming around only to watch the Offense unravel.:rolleyes:

Re: Drew's Arm
 

Have you noticed how many yards after the catch are gained against us because the other teams receivers not only come back for the catch but take 2 extra steps to make the defender miss a tackle?

If we did that in practice on offense, the defense would be able to adjust.

Tackle where he WILL be, not where he is.

Re: Drew's Arm
 

My opinion - alas Drew is human. I definitely feel his arm strength is as good as ever. He's actually using less "touch" this year and his throws are off just a bit. Drew has a powerful enough arm to be a very effective NFL QB. But without the right touch on the ball, it just does not fall exactly where it should as he is the definition of an precision passer.

Agree with nitedept and others that Drew taking on too much to elevate the team to greatness on his shoulders is the failing. He feels he needs to compensate for a weaker defense and score every-time he has the ball. This equates disaster.

NO QB can handle that type of responsibility. I appreciate his courage but the situation defines our season so far.

Re: Drew's Arm
 

Yeah Alot of the times it was made a 1000 times worse also because our DB's played 10 yards off a receiver on 3rd and 3, which would lead to a WR getting 15 yards when they only need 3

I hope the D continues to improve, they have proper guidance this year and with a couple of draft picks hopefully at OLB, S or DT/DE we could be dominant

however on offense the only thing that will fix us is waiting until next year and thats coach

On a positive note (YAY) I like what joe morgan has been doing recently, He looks like the deep threat that we need in our offense

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Nah, don't agree. That pass was short because Bushleague's guy pushed him into Drew's leading left leg and he couldn't step into the throw.

Re: Drew's Arm
 

its been that way, during the superbowl run it was like that. He has always under thrown the WR. Nothing new here, thats why we need to run the damn ball and not throw it 50 times a game, and still loose

Re: Drew's Arm
 

I blame the offensive line. Seriously.

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i can agree to some of the drew and grahm posts. drew is in a battle with fatigue mentally more than old wounds hurting. he really started to press when for 3 quarters without a passing td. jimmy grahm now its confussing to me how he went from all world to the real world. injury has to be the culprit. he has his ways of giving up on a route when he knows hes not targeted. which is hurting his ego a little. u don't see him in drews face apoligizing as much for a droped ball like last season. has to be the foot/ankle eating him. can't shake a cold this year. it could be that i finally thought i had a fantasy stud also. lol. still love um both.

Re: Drew's Arm
 

I haven't really seen this. On this level the margin for error is so small that if Brees has gotten hit and has a bruised shoulder or a slight sprain that might be enough to cause a problem with his delivery, doesn't have to be the end of the world or nothing.

Re: Drew's Arm
 

Agree man.
His throw 2 games ago for a TD had Semi-active radar homing on it

Re: Drew's Arm
 

I think it more fatigued than anything, a lot of his passes are behind, never in stride or he steps up so far and over throw just misses so yes that run game is very important so SP is needed and I hope he sees it

Re: Drew's Arm
 

Its normal procedure to get a full physical before a contract signing. Im fairly confident in Drews case, that included full disclosure of his arm strength and shoulder health.
IF they offered Brees a 100 million dollar contract, they must know he is just fine. Thats how I see it.

Re: Drew's Arm
 

The only thing wrong with Drew's arm is the offensive line.

Re: Drew's Arm
 

the money in his pocket is weighing him down, its throwing off his delivery, ...now if he was to say, get rid of some of it, to me, then he would get some weight off his back, or shoulder.

Re: Drew's Arm
 

He's been getting hit a lot this year. Wouldn't surprise me at all if he is playing dinged up. You won't hear about it until the end of the season if this is true.

Re: Drew's Arm
 

I guess when the season goes south, we question everything. Much better things to come in 2013.

Re: Drew's Arm
 

You're not the only one. I have been complaining about his throwing behind receivers and almost getting them killed for a while now. It's usually met with some cliche response like "if it touches your hands you gotta catch it"... Like that has anything to do with the fact that he IS throwing behind everyone.

That said, I don't think his shoulder is hurt. I think he's lacking confidence and short arming his passes. I don't know how that happened, but it sure as hell looks like it to me. Slumps happen from time to time, but it usually happens to young QB's. A bad game is one thing, but this is a full on slump, and the timing is rather bizarre.

Re: Drew's Arm
 

Think about what you just said... His strength is there but his accuracy (touch) is diminishing.. Now think about it in terms of a pitcher trying to throw his 90th 100 MPH fast ball. As his arm tires control diminishes and that effort is transferred to strength.

I can chunk a baseball fairly accurately 25 yards (distance from 3rd to 1st rounded).. When my shoulders are hurting, I can still get it there with a fair amount of velocity but I have to overcome so much pain that the accuracy is not there.

In simpler terms Drew could throw 35 yards using 70% of his strength very accurately. Pain is causing him to now throw 25 yards using 95% of his strength and that is taking a toll on his touch.

Getting hit is a distraction, more loss of control. Pain in his shoulder just from a weather change, more loss of control.

I suspect if Payton were with us he would correct it by cutting routed by 5 yards, allowing Drew to focus more in control and a little less on velocity.

Then again, I could do like I see a lot of other people doing and ignore diminishing performance and just say nothing is wrong.

2010 Drew threw 22 INTs.. Some blame it on the birth of his son. We have 4 games left, if Drew throws just 2 more INTs he is tired for his second career highest INTs per season.
Drew Brees: Played 2010 With MCL Injury | Bleacher Report

Drews Passer rating has been under 110 two times in his Career. 2010 and this year. Look at the advanced passing stats.
Drew Brees NFL Football Statistics - Pro-Football-Reference.com

Re: Drew's Arm
 

Atlas had off days too. :cool: