Poll: Which Saints player do you think is responsible for complaining about Spagnuolo

RaginCajun83 · 01-03-2013, 04:52 PM

Voted someone else cause I think this article was written by someone trying to divide the locker room after this horrible season. I can't think in the last 7 seasons when a player threw a coach under the bus so why would they start now. If this is true then said spineless player needs to be cut now

Vrillon82 · 01-04-2013, 12:45 AM

I thought it might of been Jenkins, he didnt make much of a play all year except 1 in Tampa Bay.

TheOak · 01-07-2013, 08:41 AM

Not saying it is this person but you've all missed one player, even the poll missed this player that would have something to gain...

Shanle is done with us, blaming Spags "might" give him an opportunity with another team if he is not ready to retire.

Danno · 01-07-2013, 10:27 AM

I'm not certain its a player thats having a bad season. It could be a good player that sees the exact same things we all see, square pegs forced into round holes with no adjustments.

TheOak · 01-07-2013, 01:34 PM

Originally Posted by Danno

I'm not certain its a player thats having a bad season. It could be a good player that sees the exact same things we all see, square pegs forced into round holes with no adjustments.

Adjustments in that capacity have to be addressed in the off season. Also, some times you have to break it before you can fix it.

IMHO going from what GW was doing to anything else involves "breaking bad" as the first step.

Another opinion that I hold is that if they would have just tackled they wouldn't have looked so terrible. 50% less MISSED tackles and they would have been 25th at least.

Tackling is something you exit High School football having been taught. GW teaching them that forcing turnovers instead of tackling is what has caused our problems. I believe when he said put your helmet on the ball he meant "facemask" when making a proper tackle, not diving and trying to put the crown on the ball.

frydaddy · 01-07-2013, 01:44 PM

All you guys with this "square peg, round hole" argument need to give it a rest. It's not like the guy was able to hand pick an entire new core of players to fit his scheme. This ain't your Madden franchise team, it doesn't work like that in the real NFL.. as for "no adjustments" again I wonder just what it is you were expecting? When a coordinator comes in with his own scheme, that is the scheme he's going to run. Most of the so-called talent at his disposal were GW's guys who fit GW'S scheme, thats not his fault. Neither is it his fault that we didn't (and still don't) have the cap room to bring in the personnel he needs. I think he did make adjustments as much as he could and I believe that's part of the reason there was some improvement on d. I think what you guys are talking about is not adjustments, but a friggin overhaul of the scheme during the season. Well, here in the real world, you know, where its not a video game, that is basically impossible. It takes an entire offseason and then some to install a scheme. You can't just throw your hands up and say "oh well, that didn't work. Let's try plan b". There's no plan b during the season.

Danno · 01-07-2013, 02:35 PM

Originally Posted by frydaddy

All you guys with this "square peg, round hole" argument need to give it a rest. It's not like the guy was able to hand pick an entire new core of players to fit his scheme. This ain't your Madden franchise team, it doesn't work like that in the real NFL.. as for "no adjustments" again I wonder just what it is you were expecting? When a coordinator comes in with his own scheme, that is the scheme he's going to run. Most of the so-called talent at his disposal were GW's guys who fit GW'S scheme, thats not his fault. Neither is it his fault that we didn't (and still don't) have the cap room to bring in the personnel he needs. I think he did make adjustments as much as he could and I believe that's part of the reason there was some improvement on d. I think what you guys are talking about is not adjustments, but a friggin overhaul of the scheme during the season. Well, here in the real world, you know, where its not a video game, that is basically impossible. It takes an entire offseason and then some to install a scheme. You can't just throw your hands up and say "oh well, that didn't work. Let's try plan b". There's no plan b during the season.

I disagree. A competent coordinator will adjust his shemes to fit his players strengths. Those that don't usually get bad results, like the worst defense in NFL history.

Mike Nolan is a 3-4 guru. Did he force his 3-4 on the Falcons? No, he adjusted his scheme to fit the personnel on the team.

FinSaint · 01-07-2013, 02:47 PM

Originally Posted by Danno

I disagree. A competent coordinator will adjust his shemes to fit his players strengths. Those that don't usually get bad results, like the worst defense in NFL history.

Mike Nolan is a 3-4 guru. Did he force his 3-4 on the Falcons? No, he adjusted his scheme to fit the personnel on the team.

I agree with your sentiment, but just to be clear about something - Nolan was told before he took the job that the Failclowns would stay with the base 4-3 and wouldn't be converting into a 3-4, so that was never an option for Nolan.

TheOak · 01-07-2013, 03:03 PM

Originally Posted by Danno

I disagree. A competent coordinator will adjust his shemes to fit his players strengths. Those that don't usually get bad results, like the worst defense in NFL history.

Mike Nolan is a 3-4 guru. Did he force his 3-4 on the Falcons? No, he adjusted his scheme to fit the personnel on the team.

That is what Denver tried to do with Tebow... And the jets tried to do with Tebow and Sanchez...

You either build around your talent (which honestly we do not have much of), or you take a plan that works and you adjust the talent...

If Payton and Loomis brought Spags in they did not want to see any more of what we were doing, they wanted whole sale change. Williams way may have been the only way it could work with the players we had.

This season may not be the best scenario for what you are saying Danno. Spags spent the first 1/2 of the season waiting for players to understand what he wanted, I am not sure we ever actually saw a game where the players "got it"... He may have spent the entire season waiting to see them all get it... You have to get from point A to point B before you move on to C... Not sure there was a point in the season where we reached B.

Danno · 01-07-2013, 03:18 PM

Originally Posted by TheOak

This season may not be the best scenario for what you are saying Danno. Spags spent the first 1/2 of the season waiting for players to understand what he wanted, I am not sure we ever actually saw a game where the players "got it"... He may have spent the entire season waiting to see them all get it... You have to get from point A to point B before you move on to C... Not sure there was a point in the season where we reached B.

I think this season is the perfect example. He didn't have time to teach his players his system so he should have adjusted his system to fit the personnel and the predicament he was thrown into.

Then start bringing in players that fit what he prefers.

View Poll Results: Which player do you think complained about Spagnuolo?
Bunkley	0	0%
Harper	4	8.70%
Smith	4	8.70%
Patrick Robinson	4	8.70%
Malcolm Jenkins	3	6.52%
Cam Jordan	0	0%
Sedrick Ellis	19	41.30%
Junior Gallette	1	2.17%
Tez Wilson	1	2.17%
Tom Johnson	0	0%
Quddus	0	0%
Rafel Bush	0	0%
Jabari Greer	0	0%
Casiilas	0	0%
Hicks	0	0%
Johnny Patrick	8	17.39%
Elbert Mack	0	0%
Turk McBride	1	2.17%
Curtis Lofton	0	0%
Someone else	6	13.04%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 46. You may not vote on this poll

01-03-2013, 04:52 PM	#1
RaginCajun83 Hou Saints Fan Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Houston, Tx Posts: 5,050	Re: Poll: Which Saints player do you think is responsible for complaining about Spagnuolo Voted someone else cause I think this article was written by someone trying to divide the locker room after this horrible season. I can't think in the last 7 seasons when a player threw a coach under the bus so why would they start now. If this is true then said spineless player needs to be cut now

01-04-2013, 12:45 AM	#2
Vrillon82 1000 Posts + Join Date: Aug 2012 Posts: 1,127	Re: Poll: Which Saints player do you think is responsible for complaining about Spagnuolo I thought it might of been Jenkins, he didnt make much of a play all year except 1 in Tampa Bay.
Vrillon82 1000 Posts + Join Date: Aug 2012 Posts: 1,127

01-07-2013, 08:41 AM	#3
TheOak 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Cypress Tx. Posts: 19,047	Re: Poll: Which Saints player do you think is responsible for complaining about Spagnuolo Not saying it is this person but you've all missed one player, even the poll missed this player that would have something to gain... Shanle is done with us, blaming Spags "might" give him an opportunity with another team if he is not ready to retire.

01-07-2013, 10:27 AM	#4
Danno Truth Addict Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Spanish Fort, AL (via NO and B/R) Posts: 24,756	Re: Poll: Which Saints player do you think is responsible for complaining about Spagnuolo I'm not certain its a player thats having a bad season. It could be a good player that sees the exact same things we all see, square pegs forced into round holes with no adjustments.

01-07-2013, 01:34 PM	#5
TheOak 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Cypress Tx. Posts: 19,047	Re: Poll: Which Saints player do you think is responsible for complaining about Spagnuolo Originally Posted by Danno I'm not certain its a player thats having a bad season. It could be a good player that sees the exact same things we all see, square pegs forced into round holes with no adjustments. Adjustments in that capacity have to be addressed in the off season. Also, some times you have to break it before you can fix it. IMHO going from what GW was doing to anything else involves "breaking bad" as the first step. Another opinion that I hold is that if they would have just tackled they wouldn't have looked so terrible. 50% less MISSED tackles and they would have been 25th at least. Tackling is something you exit High School football having been taught. GW teaching them that forcing turnovers instead of tackling is what has caused our problems. I believe when he said put your helmet on the ball he meant "facemask" when making a proper tackle, not diving and trying to put the crown on the ball. frydaddy likes this.
	It's not what you look at that matters, it's what you see. ~ Henry David Thoreau

01-07-2013, 01:44 PM	#6
frydaddy 1000 Posts + Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Lafayette Posts: 1,964 Blog Entries: 1	Re: Poll: Which Saints player do you think is responsible for complaining about Spagnuolo All you guys with this "square peg, round hole" argument need to give it a rest. It's not like the guy was able to hand pick an entire new core of players to fit his scheme. This ain't your Madden franchise team, it doesn't work like that in the real NFL.. as for "no adjustments" again I wonder just what it is you were expecting? When a coordinator comes in with his own scheme, that is the scheme he's going to run. Most of the so-called talent at his disposal were GW's guys who fit GW'S scheme, thats not his fault. Neither is it his fault that we didn't (and still don't) have the cap room to bring in the personnel he needs. I think he did make adjustments as much as he could and I believe that's part of the reason there was some improvement on d. I think what you guys are talking about is not adjustments, but a friggin overhaul of the scheme during the season. Well, here in the real world, you know, where its not a video game, that is basically impossible. It takes an entire offseason and then some to install a scheme. You can't just throw your hands up and say "oh well, that didn't work. Let's try plan b". There's no plan b during the season. TheOak likes this.
	Mais forte do que a morte

01-07-2013, 02:35 PM	#7
Danno Truth Addict Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Spanish Fort, AL (via NO and B/R) Posts: 24,756	Re: Poll: Which Saints player do you think is responsible for complaining about Spagnuolo Originally Posted by frydaddy All you guys with this "square peg, round hole" argument need to give it a rest. It's not like the guy was able to hand pick an entire new core of players to fit his scheme. This ain't your Madden franchise team, it doesn't work like that in the real NFL.. as for "no adjustments" again I wonder just what it is you were expecting? When a coordinator comes in with his own scheme, that is the scheme he's going to run. Most of the so-called talent at his disposal were GW's guys who fit GW'S scheme, thats not his fault. Neither is it his fault that we didn't (and still don't) have the cap room to bring in the personnel he needs. I think he did make adjustments as much as he could and I believe that's part of the reason there was some improvement on d. I think what you guys are talking about is not adjustments, but a friggin overhaul of the scheme during the season. Well, here in the real world, you know, where its not a video game, that is basically impossible. It takes an entire offseason and then some to install a scheme. You can't just throw your hands up and say "oh well, that didn't work. Let's try plan b". There's no plan b during the season. I disagree. A competent coordinator will adjust his shemes to fit his players strengths. Those that don't usually get bad results, like the worst defense in NFL history. Mike Nolan is a 3-4 guru. Did he force his 3-4 on the Falcons? No, he adjusted his scheme to fit the personnel on the team.

01-07-2013, 02:47 PM	#8
FinSaint Site Donor 2015 Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Finland... formerly Southern Virginia Posts: 4,963	Re: Poll: Which Saints player do you think is responsible for complaining about Spagnuolo Originally Posted by Danno I disagree. A competent coordinator will adjust his shemes to fit his players strengths. Those that don't usually get bad results, like the worst defense in NFL history. Mike Nolan is a 3-4 guru. Did he force his 3-4 on the Falcons? No, he adjusted his scheme to fit the personnel on the team. I agree with your sentiment, but just to be clear about something - Nolan was told before he took the job that the Failclowns would stay with the base 4-3 and wouldn't be converting into a 3-4, so that was never an option for Nolan.

01-07-2013, 03:03 PM	#9
TheOak 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Cypress Tx. Posts: 19,047	Re: Poll: Which Saints player do you think is responsible for complaining about Spagnuolo Originally Posted by Danno I disagree. A competent coordinator will adjust his shemes to fit his players strengths. Those that don't usually get bad results, like the worst defense in NFL history. Mike Nolan is a 3-4 guru. Did he force his 3-4 on the Falcons? No, he adjusted his scheme to fit the personnel on the team. That is what Denver tried to do with Tebow... And the jets tried to do with Tebow and Sanchez... You either build around your talent (which honestly we do not have much of), or you take a plan that works and you adjust the talent... If Payton and Loomis brought Spags in they did not want to see any more of what we were doing, they wanted whole sale change. Williams way may have been the only way it could work with the players we had. This season may not be the best scenario for what you are saying Danno. Spags spent the first 1/2 of the season waiting for players to understand what he wanted, I am not sure we ever actually saw a game where the players "got it"... He may have spent the entire season waiting to see them all get it... You have to get from point A to point B before you move on to C... Not sure there was a point in the season where we reached B.
	It's not what you look at that matters, it's what you see. ~ Henry David Thoreau

01-07-2013, 03:18 PM	#10
Danno Truth Addict Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Spanish Fort, AL (via NO and B/R) Posts: 24,756	Re: Poll: Which Saints player do you think is responsible for complaining about Spagnuolo Originally Posted by TheOak This season may not be the best scenario for what you are saying Danno. Spags spent the first 1/2 of the season waiting for players to understand what he wanted, I am not sure we ever actually saw a game where the players "got it"... He may have spent the entire season waiting to see them all get it... You have to get from point A to point B before you move on to C... Not sure there was a point in the season where we reached B. I think this season is the perfect example. He didn't have time to teach his players his system so he should have adjusted his system to fit the personnel and the predicament he was thrown into. Then start bringing in players that fit what he prefers.

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