Martez Wilson....LB'er or DE?
 

I have never been a big fan of taking Tez and playing him at DE. Yes, at the time we had enough LB'ers but they didn't work out well enough to suit me. I still don't understand taking a good player who can play three downs and moving him to a back up position. Isn't this a deep draft for DE?
How many of ya'll would like to see him back at LB'er?

Re: Martez Wilson....LB'er or DE?
 

I think your right, at the time there were too many LB's but if we get 2 solid DE's out of this draft then ( Eziekel Ansah, Margus Hunt are my choices) it might be time for Martez to go back to LB where he can see the most field time. We haven't seen Chamberlain at all, and cutting his contract right now does help or hurt the cap.

Re: Martez Wilson....LB'er or DE?
 

Isn't Hawthorne and Wilson both strongside backers? We are pretty much stuck with Hawthorne due to his cap hit this year.

I say give Wilson some more playing time at DE and see what he does...

Re: Martez Wilson....LB'er or DE?
 

Yeah, because he went on IR in the preseason, but he looked a lot better than most of the other LBs in those few stints he was able to play - I'd be willing to give him a chance to make a comeback this coming season or at least fight for a roster spot during the camps and preseason.

Oh, and I think it'd be pretty cruel to mindf*ck Wilson with another position change after him trying to learn a new position the whole past season.

Re: Martez Wilson....LB'er or DE?
 

This is why I want us to change to a 3-4 defense

Martez would make a hell of a OLB in a 3-4

Re: Martez Wilson....LB'er or DE?
 

And that's another thing... if there doesn't seem to be a need for Wilson in the defensive roster, then why not trade him to a team that can use him instead of wasting his talent in a system that doesn't suit his particular skill-set?!

I blame the scouting department for picking yet another player who doesn't fit the system, but who clearly has potential to be a good player in the right system.

I'm not saying that they should get rid of him, but let's not try to force another square peg into a round hole and wonder why he doesn't perform at the level we are all expecting him to.

Re: Martez Wilson....LB'er or DE?
 

Why switch to a 3-4 to suit a couple of players when the majority are suited for the 4-3?

And finding the most important piece in a 3-4, the nose tackle with limited cap space...

And finding a new coordinator...

Re: Martez Wilson....LB'er or DE?
 

Another square peg in a round hole.

If we select another tweener in this years draft I'll be hugely disappointed.

Re: Martez Wilson....LB'er or DE?
 

Martez is a perfect DE for Spagnuolo's defense (not as an every down DE but rotated in and out.) He played middle linebacker in college I believe and that's where he spent his first season as a back-up behind Vilma. I agree that he would be best suited as an OLB in a 3-4, but that ain't gonna happen on this team. I say let's get some better suited players for Spagnuolo's D-line and let Martez and Junior continue to rotate in and out. It's gonna work people... We just need to get a better pass-rushing DT.

Re: Martez Wilson....LB'er or DE?
 

Actually, Dunbar was Vilma's back up at MLB and ended up starting a few games when Vilma was dealing with an injury.

And I think Wilson played MLB only during his senior year in College, but I could be mistaken about that part.

Re: Martez Wilson....LB'er or DE?
 

I think that. Tez will find a way to contibute as a pass rusher and in coverage. I also think that Hawthorne played out of position and will have a better season if able to play his normal W Lb positioning.. Tex has physical skills that our DC cam take advantage of. Tez"s future as Saint is bright

Re: Martez Wilson....LB'er or DE?
 

Tez could be the trigger man in the spags NASCAR package.......that is if this d fense ever decides to force teams into third and long situations......

Re: Martez Wilson....LB'er or DE?
 

Cam came from a 3-4 @ cal....I wouldnt mind a 3-4 switch Draft a Dion jordan or Mingo and have one of them and martez @ OLB have Hicks @ NoseT then cam and Gallette @ DE then curtis

Re: Martez Wilson....LB'er or DE?
 

We should have NEVER let Dunbar WALk...big mistake him and lauranitis look good!

Re: Martez Wilson....LB'er or DE?
 

I don't know about that... in the two St. Louis' games I saw this season, Dunbar looked slow and often out of place, and he was missing a lot of tackles courtesy of the GW school-of-thought, no doubt.

I remember thinking; I'm glad they didn't re-sign him simply because the season before there was no significant drop off when he replaced a 80% healthy Vilma in the line-up.

Re: Martez Wilson....LB'er or DE?
 

Martez Wilson is best suited as a JACK linebacker; think (can't believe I'm gonna cross this line) Pat Swilling...

Re: Martez Wilson....LB'er or DE?
 

Spags ego maybe just a bit to big.

How many MLb do you need on a team? Saints believe 80%

I can see using wilson on some passing downs but last year showed me he is not the same player with hand in the dirt. He is much better standing up than in a stance.

With the play at OLB all year i can not believe Spags did not use him that much at the OLB position. This is why i think Spags ego about his system maybe getting the way of putting players in different roles on the defense.

Last year Wilson improved with each game to the point were we, will I believed, he would be pushing for a starting position in 2012. Dreams of him developing to the point of becoming a 3 down OLB for the saints by the end of the year. Question is does he really sux that bad in coverage? i did not see it in 2011 to the point he would need to move to DE in order to stay with the team.

I have a big slice of humble pie for Spags. If he proves me wrong i will eat it.

PS Wilson is the OLB on the saints that has the speed and the size to cover any TE in the NFL. I mean ANY.

Re: Martez Wilson....LB'er or DE?
 

I think Martez is a situational pass rush specialist and nothing more. Unless he gains the bulk/technicque to become an every down DE he would be a liability on the field in those situations. As a LBer I have seen nothing from him to show he could play OLB from a coverage standpoint. I find him to be slow to read and react when he has to diagnose plays or blocking. He only seems to thrive when his role is just straight ahead pressure the QB.

Re: Martez Wilson....LB'er or DE?
 

hmmm i will have to go back and take a look at the 2011 season again lummOx

maybe i had rose colored glasses on

Re: Martez Wilson....LB'er or DE?
 

Just make him an SLB allready, he is big enough, he is fast enough. I don't see the problem? If you then wanna put him on the line and rush on 3rd and 10 the by all means do that.

Re: Martez Wilson....LB'er or DE?
 

Should the Saints be in a 3-4 defense - this would be where current personnel would likely line up reflecting current free agents not on the roster...

LDE Cam Jordan, Junior Galette
NT Brodrick Bunkley, Akiem Hicks
RDE Will Smith, Tom Johnson

MIKE Curtis Lofton, Ramon Humber
SAM David Hawthorne, Will Herring
WILL Jonathan Vilma, Jonathan Casillas, Chris Chamberlain
JACK Martez Wilson

LCB Jabari Greer, Elbert Mack
SS Roman Harper, Rafael Bush
FS Malcolm Jenkins, Isa Abdul-Quddus, Jerico Nelson
RCB Patrick Robinson, Johnny Patrick

As you can see there are many issues - the most obvious is at LB...

Vilma departed the Jets because he couldn't play in a 3-4; that, along with his cap number would definitely make him a cap casualty; Casillas has shown an inability to shed blockers, stand ground, or make plays so he'd be gone...

Hawthorn and Herring would be fine at the SAM; but Herring's Cap Number would would require he start at the WILL Backer...

Lofton and Humber at the MIKE; actually, I think Lofton would do well in the MIKE position...

While Martez Wilson needs to see the field, there's no depth behind him should he go down and moving Galette to OLB would be a disaster as he would have been drafted for that position if he had this quickness/speed...

Which leads to the DE position where Will Smith would not make a good 3-4 DE because his inability to hold the point of attack and occupy multiple blockers as the DL in a 3-4 must do to allow the attacking LB to make tackles, plays...

So, at the least, we'd need another DE, three more LB; and that's before we fix a dysfunctional secondary...

Disclosure - Now, I like the 3-4 and I loved to see Wilson at the JACK position; but this is what drives me crazy about the Saints Personnel department; if you can't max him on film to command a good compensation in a trade, and you're not going to play him, then WTF are you drafting players like this?!?

And this is why I'm so critical of Loomis and how he should already be improving the personnel department of this team that has really let this franchise down...

Re: Martez Wilson....LB'er or DE?
 

omg the annual 34 vs 43 off season debate has begun for 2013

i went back and look at 2011 season and as rookie he did seem lost at times in coverage but what rookie is not? not like he was 1st round pick

i still say if this experiment at de is to continue he needs to be a stand up de.

BUT i still see enough promise in him to use him at LB once and while in a game and drill him in practice in his pass coverage skills. Have him cover Graham and Sproles in practice. that should help.

he can play a 34 but i still believe he can adapt to a 43 with coaching and give the saints something they need. SPEED and SIZE at LB.

Dude is a 3 to 4 year project in my book. In the mean time i want to see his special team play improve big time. well the whole unit needs to.

Plus now that Vit is done with his HC duties i am looking for him to take Wilson back into the fold at LB. Wilson has experience at DE and that will help him play LB. He has a better idea of how to react to what the DE is doing. well i hope he did learn something

Sum it up i still see enough hope in him to keep him around for another year or two

Re: Martez Wilson....LB'er or DE?
 

I am a huge 3-4 proponent. But we don't have the coach to run it or the personnel to do it as a full time base defense. I thing Gregg Williams had it right when he was making us a hybrid mixture of defenses. Lining us up in a variety of looks was an effective technique with the 4-3 being our traditional alignment.

I'd really like to see us upgrade the safety position and go back to an aggressive blitzing defense running a variation of Buddy Ryan's old 42 defense.

Re: Martez Wilson....LB'er or DE?
 

I say keep him at d-end, he was showing a lot of improvement towards the end of the season and he could be a wicked speed rusher with some work.
it doesn't matter where they put him if they have that bag of trash ellis rushing up the middle

Re: Martez Wilson....LB'er or DE?
 

Well we about to find out..lol

Re: Martez Wilson....LB'er or DE?
 

your right mike this will be fun to watch as micky guts the defense for the 34 move

Re: Martez Wilson....LB'er or DE?
 

It's a little scary but I am as excited as a fat kid is a bakery! Change is always scary but without change there can be no progress!!

Re: Martez Wilson....LB'er or DE?
 

:popcorn:

Re: Martez Wilson....LB'er or DE?
 

Wow...Finally...

Coach Payton shows why he's the best...he plays to the strengths of his guys and doesn't try to force a system that isn't there...

Re: Martez Wilson....LB'er or DE?
 

So, the question remains then: why did they (SP at the forefront) hire Spags in the first place if his system was so wrong for the players the Saints had/have?!

Was Spags himself another square peg the organization tried to force into a round hole - not letting him play to his strengths, but forcing him to adapt to the situation and become something he is not?!

Re: Martez Wilson....LB'er or DE?
 

I just think that a year away from the team gave SP a new perspective and the wheels started turning on a more dynamic plan to put the Saints back to their former status & take advantage of Brees' remaining years.

Who knows what would have happened had SP not been suspended? Perhaps the Saints would have had a decent season & stayed with Spags and the 4-3. As it is, I think SP figured the Saints' defense pretty much hit rock bottom, so with nowhere to go but up, it's the perfect time to try something new.

Drastic times call for drastic measures. I'm glad SP has the cajones to make such moves and I'm also glad Loomis/Benson have the faith & confidence in their H/C to make such a move.

It's what I like about the Saints, they don't f#ck around, eh?

Re: Martez Wilson....LB'er or DE?
 

ok i see wilson as our pass rushing olb

Re: Martez Wilson....LB'er or DE?
 

There are quite a few tweeners entering the draft. Perhaps we can get a few of them, maybe even as UDFA, to replace our ineffective linebackers.

Re: Martez Wilson....LB'er or DE?
 

LDE Cam Jordan
NT Akiem Hicks
RDE Broderick Bunkley

MIKE Curtis Lofton
SAM David Hawthorne
WILL Will Herring
JACK Martez Wilson

LCB Jabari Greer
SS Roman Harper
FS Malcolm Jenkins
RCB Patrick Robinson

Vilma, Smith...Out

Re: Martez Wilson....LB'er or DE?
 

Ilike it, but I'd move Cam to RDE, Bunkley to NT and Hicks to LDE.

I like Tez at JACK for now, but I see him moving inside eventually when we sign/draft that edge rusher.

I think we'll end up putting Lofton and Tez in the middle, with Hawthorn and a player TBD on the outside.

I'm not sure there's an ideal spot for Junior in this scheme, except as a situational OLB with Tez on the other side in our 3-4 pass package.

Re: Martez Wilson....LB'er or DE?
 

You don't think Martez has the speed to burn from the edge?

I agree he needs to learn some technique, but he's got to see the field for that...

I'd love to see Junior Galette adapt; just don't think he's got the skill set to be an OLB...

Re: Martez Wilson....LB'er or DE?
 

From the article I read on Bum Phillips defense Martez is a perfect player (on paper) for that stong side inside linebacker. He could still blitz from the position and with his straightline speed he'd be a monster there.

I'm not sure Martez is best suited for the Jack. He could certainly play it but I'm not sold that he has that elite agility to be able to turn the corner but his straightline speed is freakinsh. Inside, he'd be a beast instantly.

Re: Martez Wilson....LB'er or DE?
 

I wonder if they'd consider giving Chamberlain a shot at the SS position, since that is the position under which he entered the draft and was picked by the Rams?!

Or maybe he could fit the other ILB position?!

Re: Martez Wilson....LB'er or DE?
 

interesting point fin. chamberlin does open some options in the middle plus he has solid ball skills that the others do lack.

Re: Martez Wilson....LB'er or DE?
 

I think that Galette would be a good-great OLB. He seems more fit as an OLB than he does a DE.