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Re: Rob Ryan would bring attitude and an attacking 3-4 scheme to New Orleans

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jamessr (Post 478219)

I wanna add to that
The fact we didn't have the players is not Spags in fault.
Where I blame him is he didn't work with what he had. He didn't gauge his people in the preseason games, practice or attempt to make any adjustments in weeks 1-4. It wasn't untill Joe vitt and Vilma came back we started adjusting. We started making plays....
Maybe the locker room commets were right... maybe noone liked him.

Also, he didn't have Hawthorne in the line-up during that timespan, but had to rely on the old faithful.

Re: Rob Ryan would bring attitude and an attacking 3-4 scheme to New Orleans

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jamessr (Post 478219)

I wanna add to that
The fact we didn't have the players is not Spags in fault.
Where I blame him is he didn't work with what he had. He didn't gauge his people in the preseason games, practice or attempt to make any adjustments in weeks 1-4. It wasn't untill Joe vitt and Vilma came back we started adjusting. We started making plays....
Maybe the locker room commets were right... maybe noone liked him.

Would you take a job knowing you did not have the tools to get it done? get it done right?.. Spagnuolo did.

Spagnuolo pretty much failed from start to finish. Had he not, I do believe Sean Payton would have kept him one more season.

Re: Rob Ryan would bring attitude and an attacking 3-4 scheme to New Orleans

Quote:

Originally Posted by lumm0x (Post 478218)

I think that is a little naive of an outlook. It's very hard to stomach what I believe is the reality of things, and that would be that what was "allegedly" taking place by Gregg Williams, players, other coaches and under the knowledge of the HC and GM, was a near certainty in every organization on every level of the sport. Numerous sources have stated that Gregg Williams employed this practice everywhere he went. Many past players have said this was common everywhere they played for a variety of coaches. I think it was one of those unspoken things and the condemnation of alot of other coaches and players is based more on the "you idiot for making us all look bad" policy and deny all knowledge and toss a few people under the bus to take the punishment for the good of the majority. I think this kind of thing has been going on since the sport began, that it was all too common in almost every locker room, whether it come from a coach, coordinator or positional coach or just between a few players. I played football in high school and college level and it went on in both. We did the same in hockey. The Saints organization and Gregg Williams were not an isolated incident. This is my opinion and of course I have no facts to support this.

I don't hold one shred of disrespect towards Sean Payton for what happened with Gregg Williams or the whole bouty scandel. And I feel the same about Bill Belichek and the spy gate scandel. I think this too was more common than reported and all they were guilty of was getting caught. I would be stunned if nearly every team wasn't trying any means possible to steal signals, get sneak peeks at practice formations, etc.

To make a long story short, I personally feel Gregg Williams was not some rogue nut job. He was a typical NFL coach/coordinator that got all his warts exposed to the public and now everyone has to be as unlike him as possible. My only criticism of him and pretty much everyone involved is that they can't jeoprodize their futures and their money to be straight up and admit this was an everyday thing everywhere. But there is no way the NFL would ever want that known. Williams painted himself into a bad corner though when he broke the code.

That's my take and why Rob Ryan concerns me not. He has more public disregard for being politically correct, but otherwise he's no different than any other DC to me.

Sorry you spent so much time typing that. You misunderstood my reply, which is fairly naive in it self.

Correct, bountys were/are systemic in the NFL, have been for decades... Its been proven. Ive stated that and time again in these forums.

A loose cannon is one that does not stop when he is told to, then turns on the team and its players to save and cover his own hide.

Re: Rob Ryan would bring attitude and an attacking 3-4 scheme to New Orleans

attitude and an attacking 3-4 scheme:monkey::moon::monkey:

:rofl:

Re: Rob Ryan would bring attitude and an attacking 3-4 scheme to New Orleans

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheOak (Post 478226)

How could he have known that?

He couldn't personally evaluate the players before he was hired, so he couldn't really know what he had on the Saints roster and how those players fit into his system - outside of players he had already coached/met before.

Re: Rob Ryan would bring attitude and an attacking 3-4 scheme to New Orleans

Quote:

Originally Posted by FinSaint (Post 478242)

Not true. There are hours and hours of tape on every team including our defense. So only a handful of new players would have been unknown to him.

As the HC of the St. Louis Rams you are going to tell me he didn't know the personnel on our defense, their strengths and weaknesses? He coached against them at least 3 times, say them in Playoff games and a SB.

That's like saying Sean Payton can not possibly evaluate draft picks until after they play for him.

Re: Rob Ryan would bring attitude and an attacking 3-4 scheme to New Orleans

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Originally Posted by TheOak (Post 478246)

It's different to watch film on somebody than to evaluate him personally with having the opportunity to also engage the player(s) verbally to confirm their mental preparedness - SP himself has stated that in past interviews.

Quote:

Originally Posted by FinSaint (Post 478242)

Mental preparedness went out the window with Bountygate, secret listening lines...

If you want to evaluate personalities and intelligence then yes 1 on 1.

If you want to evaluate the strengths and weaknesses of a defense and its players then all you need is tape to know we would have major problems getting to the QB.

Heck brother, you watched 16 saints games this season and you can identify our defenses strengths and weaknesses. Now if you had scouting reports you would know a crap load about what you would be walking into as a DC.

Re: Rob Ryan would bring attitude and an attacking 3-4 scheme to New Orleans

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheOak (Post 478268)

Sure, but that wasn't the point.

The point I was trying to make was that Spags didn't exactly know what "tools" he would have - taking into consideration who they'd be able to get via FA and draft - and he didn't know if those "tools" that were already there would indeed fit his particular "toolbox." And he probably thought that he could get more out of some of the guys, but they might not have responded to his coaching in the way he thought - that could be also something that was brought about by the Bountygate atmosphere and the fact that key personnel were suspended.

I'm not a coach, so I don't know this for sure, but I would think that it's very difficult to accurately make the evaluation based on film and reports whether or not a player will fit into a certain system if it is different than the one he has been playing in most recently. I would think that you need to put those guys on the field and observe them playing in the system to really see if they fit or not, and whether or not the system needs to be changed to better suit the players.

Now, on that last point I do think Spags dropped the ball, because he didn't or couldn't adjust his system to fit the Saints defensive roster, but that is a different point than the one I was referring to earlier. Spags was most of all brought in to implement his system and not to fix the weaknesses of the existing defense, and maybe that mindset had him wait too long to adjust his system to fit the players better - because he was expecting the players to adjust their playing styles to fit his system.

Now THAT is an intangible Sean Payton couldn't have seen on game tape. Spags failing to adapt.

We have gotten off into the weeds but, If you ever get the chance listen to NFLSirius and listen to Pat Kerwan and Tim Ryan break down tape. It's amazing what they can gather on every player on the field from tape. Jaw dropping.

Ill give you that 20% of the D may have been an unknown... HOWEVER, Spags was a huge part of the decision on the defensive drafts and FA. So he made part of his own bed.