Our CB's
 

Found on twitter https://twitter.com/PFF

@PFF 2 corners this year allowed more than 1000 receiving yards NO 's Patrick Robinson (1071) and Deangelo Hall (1045). Only 4 in past 5 years

Also..

@PFF Patrick Robinson also led all CB's this year in giving up 9 TDs through the air. Not ideal

It should be noted that Prob was in on 619 snaps and allowed a catch rate of 56%. PRob did have 18 passes defense and 3 INTs this last year, but he was really torched according to these stats.

In 2011, quarterbacks throwing at PRob had a rating of 59.3
https://www.profootballfocus.com/blo...-2011-numbers/

So my question is, how comfortable are you with PRob as our starting CB? Was last year's yardage given up more scheme and breakdowns? Is it just that QB's throw at him alot thus yardage is going to accumulate regardless? (Hall was in on 628 snaps) Thoughts?

Re: Our CB's
 

Any 2012 grades should be burned. Not 1 single player fit Spags' scheme.

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last year i was shocked by the white pick in the draft. now i really like the kid and see a bright future for him. sure coverage skills need development but that was to be expected coming from a small school.

What i like is he is not afraid to tackle. he sticks the ball carrier. thats what we need more of. enough of these fineness players.

Saints need to get bigger and nastier.

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Actually getting a pass rush will help our CB's. Robinson has some talent but he had no clue what he was doing and was guessing at his role.

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oh yeah a pass rush helps but you need to set a tone in the secondary with your hits. the saints hit nothing but sour notes in past few years. no one is scared of them

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I was never high on Patrick coming out of FL State and his game is NOT physical enough for my taste. If Rob Ryan ends up in NO as our DC, Pat MUST adjust his playing style, getting his body square to defend the bigger WR's or see himself introduced to the bench. His performance in 2012 puts me in the mindset of the old Fred Thomas days.

Re: Our CB's
 

Hey! Fred Thomas was really good until he signed that contract extension. My Gawd...he was awful after that!

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I still have faith in Robinson's talent. I'd hate for him to go elsewhere and reach his full potential. Remember... this young man got a lot of Deion Sanders comparison out of college. Hopefully our next DC can get the most out of him.

Still young, still cheap, still talented. It's not time to give up just yet.

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And he was progressing quite nicely until we switched to zone. He looked on pace to surpass Greer.

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Hah! Yeah, I liked Fred, he was scrappy.

P-Rob is often painful to watch, but he has talent. Sometimes it seems like his head can't keep pace with his game, but I don't suppose the Spags affair helped that, either.

Re: Our CB's
 

I'm further questioning whether it wasn't the scheme that was the problem. Under Gregg Williams, we blitzed heavily and relied on our DB's to play mostly man coverage. Under Spagnuolo, we were more of a zone team. And considering PRob had a better 2011, in terms of QB's passing against him, opposed to 2012, I'm leaning more towards it being scheme based.

On another note, yes, a pass rush would surely help our DB's out. Martez Wilson is built for a 3-4 scheme, and it we do bring in Anthony Spencer or draft Dion Jordan or a rush LB in the first round, we should be improving our pass rush significantly.

Re: Our CB's
 

Agreed. I think our CB's are much better suited for man coverage, but either scheme will get roasted without a pass rush. We haven't had a good pass rush team in years.

In my opinion thats why its foolish to judge how good or bad DB's are if your pass rush (and LB's) absolutely sucks.

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I like Corey White, he puts his nose in there and gives maximum effort. But he was pretty much pwned last year by opposing QB's.

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blo...d-cornerbacks/

As of this article's posting, he was targeted 33 times, giving up 26 completions (78.8%), 372 yards and # TD's. I believe he got hurt a couple games after this was published, so it'd be interesting to know how he faired in the games prior to injury. But he was a rookie and learning the NFL game. I'm excited to see how he progresses.

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Its foolish to think this guy can play corner. He wouldn't see the field on most other NFL defensive rosters.

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Yeah, our DB's aren't meant for zone play. They do better in man-to-man coverage.

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Me too. In a perfect world White would have seen the field only in dime situations and occasional spot duty while he progressed.

Injuries forced him into a starting role from day 1.

He was a raw small school rookie thrown into the fire much sooner than he ever should have been.

I think we'll see huge improvement from the guy in 2013.

BTW: Welcome aboard.

Re: Our CB's
 

Neither would 90% of all raw small school rookie CB's.

It would be much more foolish to suggest that its foolish to think he can play CB.

He was progessing nicely (even for a raw rookie) before he got hurt.

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Deion couldn't hit either. The only thing that made PRob look good at all was Jenkins running in from wherever he happened to be scratching himself in yet another of Spags' schemeless packages and making the tackle.

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One thing I really like about White is, he is from a small school program but has a big chip on his shoulder and wants to be good. He's here to put in work and be the best football player he can be. Have to respect a man like that.

BTW, thanks for the welcome! :)

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Gotta ask,
where did jjasso007 come from and what does it mean?

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You could see how White struggled so much at the beginning of the year. He was a small school prospect that was thrown into the fire immediately. It works for some guys but others need time to develop and get acclimated with the speed of the NFL. I honestly believe we have something with White. He started playing a little better towards midseason and I think with more experience, he can become an average/solid corner in this league.

What impress me about White is the fact he looks the part. Physically it's all there. He's big, strong, and fast. If you lined White up with the top 10 corner backs in the league, he looks above average as he easily passes the eye ball test. I'm intrigued into what kind of player we can mold him into.

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I hated him at the beging of the season. He was god awful. But started loving him later in the season. He really played well before he got injured.

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J is the start of my first name, Jasso is my last name, and 007 is for James Bond, haha

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I thing he gets beat so much is small for the big receivers in our divison and theres no pressure up front and receivers have to much time get open.

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No pass rush or anything else is gonna help Patrick Robinson. It's time to move on. We need to get past our fan favorites thing if we want to get better. It's time to cut bait.

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With the current rules CB is the toughest position on the field! Without a pass rush they don't stand a chance no matter how good they are. With a solid front seven our DB would be much better than people think.

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Exactly!!!! I'm not so sure what some see in this guy. Like I have said before, PRob is not starting cb material for most NFL teams no matter how you slice it. Giving up 1000 yards passing, 9 td's, etc...this guy simply can't play the position at this level. Move on...

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I don't buy into the idea that these guys sucked because of the system. If they had any clue how to play decent defense, they would have adjusted. I'm on record as saying Spags' didn't do a good enough job himself, but there's no way I'm giving anyone a pass based on schematic issues. Not when you're the worst defense ever.

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Robinson is still under contract for the next two seasons with $2.3M and $2.4M cap hits respectively, so I would give him those two seasons to prove that he can be a starting CB in this league and live up to his 1st round status. Robinson clearly has potential and talent, but he needs the right person to work with him on some of his fundamentals in order to become a more complete CB - it'll be interesting to see who Ryan brings in to replace Flajole as the new secondary coach, and if that person can be that teacher and a mentor to Robinson.

I'm very hopeful that White will become a solid contributor in the Saints' backfield, and I think he did pretty well for an unpolished rookie until he got hurt. What's intriguing about White is that most scouts projected him to be a SS in the NFL - he was designated as a S in the draft - because he approaches the game and situations on the field more like a safety would than corner. Anyway, he needs a good coach to elevate his game, and a lot again depends on who will become the next secondary coach along with how well Andre Curtis can coach him up.

I'd also give Johnny Patrick the two seasons he still has left on his contract to show what he can do for the Saints, but I'm not as hopeful about him as I am about both Robinson and White. I really thought that the move to a zone coverage scheme would help his play, but unfortunately for some reason that wasn't to be. IMO, Patrick isn't a man coverage CB, because he doesn't have the speed or mobility to blanket WRs in man coverage situations. He is also a fairly bad tackler, both technique- and attitude-wise, which is somewhat surprising as he is kind of muscular/strong looking for his size. I doubt he'll ever become anything more than a nickel or a dime CB, but again with the right coaching he can always surprise us all.


And like many of you before me, I do blame the non-existent front 4 pass rush for many of the ills of the Saints backfield, so with improvement on the pass rush - the ratings on the Saints' corners and safeties should sore.

Still, I'd like to add a 6-1 or 6-2 tall corner to the mix, who could really fight for those jump balls with the "Vincent Jacksons" of the league.

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I'm certain Rob Ryan will evaluate Pat Robinson & Johnny P much like he did while in Dallas with Terance Newman (over paid), Mike Jenkins & Orlando Scandrick....after careful evaluation he put Newman on the first train smoking to Cincy and the other two didn't see much playing time by week 5. We don't have two, three seasons for an 'experiment' at cornerback facing the likes of Roddy White, Julio J., Dez Bryant, Vincent Jackson & Vernon Davis of the world.

With all of those elite WR's in the NFC, at least delusional coach JJones knew that he had to upgrade at corner Brandon Carr (FA) & Morris Claiborne in the draft. I will be surprised if Patrick Rob is starting by week 8.

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Robinson's tackling, or should I say wiffing will have him out of a starting role pretty quick. CB's in the 46 have to be great tacklers above all else.

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Where did you hear we'd be running the 46?

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Our Patricks suck. I believe that they have to go now.......cut bait and run like hell. I like White well enough I guess.......he's young and needs coaching. Greer is still looking good to me. He had that groin pull last year and looked good before and then slowly got better as the season went on. We don't have the ammunition at CB to be successful in my opinion.

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tackling? tackling? whats that? our cbs go for the feet and flop on the ground like fish out of water

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Both of the Patrick's are here next year. I personally feel they are better suited for a man defense, which is what Ryan employs more of. So here's to hoping they each play better in 2013!

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None of our CB's had true over the top help until late in the season( enter Quaddus and Bush).

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+1

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I'm just curious as to why you think Johnny Patrick suits man coverage better than zone?

JP doesn't have the speed to match with most of the wideouts and he has some rather tight hips which makes him very susceptible to quick changes of direction by the receivers.

He does have good skills at the LOS when it comes to getting his hands on the receivers and bumping them, and he seems to have above average skills when it comes to positioning himself on the field.

Those characteristics to me are much better suited for a zone CB than man coverage, but I'd like to hear your perspective on the matter.

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Only time will...tell P-Rob clearly was progessing before we switched the sccheme to zone I think we'll see the that progression we were looking for this year...if we need to be talking about anybody leaving it should be Jabari considering his age & play at CB

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Haha, let me rephrase, I think our CB's, overall, are better suited for man coverage, not all of them. You're correct about Johnny Patrick though. He is good at the line, getting physical, but he doesn't have the hips to really mirror receivers, nor the recovery speed if he gets burned. That being said, I believe we'll be employing a man coverage next season and we're stuck with JP, so here's to hoping he can be coached up and contribute for our D