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Re: Holder: Saints Cut Dave Thomas, Johnny Patrick
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The assumption you're making (and let me say that I hope you're right), is that he struggled this year because of a new system. I don't think that was it. The real adjustment fell on the front seven. Robinson, if he WERE a good corner, should have been able to keep up with receivers. His only real strength is his speed. Yet they were blowing by him, left and right, because his instincts are horrible. Instincts are the hallmark of any good player, regardless of talent level. Here's the other reason I believe to be part of his struggles. His second year was his first significant action, and I think opposing coaches were able to use that film to really dissect his weaknesses. I can see where a new scheme would affect him to a degree, but he was plain awful. The difference of zone or man coverage is not so great that a good player couldn't at least perform admirably. I'm all for talking about upside, but at some point you gotta deliver. Calling him a good corner is what raised my eyebrow. Potential does not equal quality. It merely presents the possibility. |
Re: Holder: Saints Cut Dave Thomas, Johnny Patrick
Could be we get another vet player to play man cover, someone who can do their job?
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Re: Holder: Saints Cut Dave Thomas, Johnny Patrick
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Re: Holder: Saints Cut Dave Thomas, Johnny Patrick
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Re: Holder: Saints Cut Dave Thomas, Johnny Patrick
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I think its a waste to use 2012 to evaluate much at all. And prior to 2012 Robinson appeared to be progressing nicely. He may indeed end up sucking in 2013, but as I said he has much more upside than Johnny Patrick, which is why Robinson wasn't cut before Patrick, which was the question that started this discussion. |
Re: Holder: Saints Cut Dave Thomas, Johnny Patrick
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I mentioned how the new scheme mostly affects the front seven. Therefore, mentioning linebackers isn't a good example. Plus the discussion is not about linebackers. Also, Hawthorne was hurt all year AND playing out of position. Greer is getting old and is always nicked up. Vilma is in the absolute twilight of his career and didn't play much coming off injury and suspension. I have already mentioned in several threads how badly Harper and Jenkins have sucked. The reason I didn't bring them up is because we weren't talking about them. And lastly, I know Johnny Patrick was terrible and was not arguing about that. I responded to your comment about Patrick Robinson, not the original post. A lot of those guys had excuses of being either old, out of position or injured. Some of them just aren't that talented to begin with. Robinson and Jenkins don't have any excuses. Harper is one of the not so talented guys, but I get on him because he's been starting for 7 years. I've seen enough of his play. |
Re: Holder: Saints Cut Dave Thomas, Johnny Patrick
Just looking at the Saints 2013 schedule and seeing teams with stud WR's with the likes of Julio Jones, Roddy White, Brandon Marshall, Larry Fitzgerald, Dez B. etc 'concerns me' having Pat Robinson covering them. I surely hope we can acquire a quality corner in FA/draft. Robinson is just not very good at this level & quite frankly, I'm tired of looking at him out there getting torched.
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Re: Holder: Saints Cut Dave Thomas, Johnny Patrick
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The original question I responded to was why did we cut Patrick instead of Robinson. How it evolved into this discussion is puzzling. |
Re: Holder: Saints Cut Dave Thomas, Johnny Patrick
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I agree completely with Danno on this. During his 2nd year there was a noticeable improvement in how Robinson played, and that is definitely what you are looking in a 2nd year player. Robinson is clearly better suited for man coverage than zone, because he isn't physical enough to re-route receivers from the LOS, but he has great athleticism to blanket receivers down the field. I would be ready to place a monetary bet on the fact that Robinson's performances will improve quite a lot just by the Saints' backfield reverting back to a man coverage scheme, but I also think that he has taken a lot out of this past season's problems and will improve both mentally and physically for the coming season. |
Re: Holder: Saints Cut Dave Thomas, Johnny Patrick
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He made Pat Robinson look like a high school player trying to keep up with an NFL receiver And not just once, he beat Robinson twice for 54 yards and a TD each time |
Re: Holder: Saints Cut Dave Thomas, Johnny Patrick
I really liked Dave Thomas. Best of luck Dave. Boy didi we wiff on Johnny Patrick.
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Re: Holder: Saints Cut Dave Thomas, Johnny Patrick
Our Patricks suck!!! :wink:
Somebody has to go........thanks Dave! Good luck if you file those concussion lawsuits. |
Re: Holder: Saints Cut Dave Thomas, Johnny Patrick
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I never claimed that he does or is capable of doing a "great job of blanketing receivers." What I said was that Robinson has great athleticism which, IMO, suits better man coverage where receivers need to be blanketed. And I do agree with you that Robinson was terrible in that game covering Bryant, but the thing is that you can't just find guys off the street who can cover receivers like Bryant for as long as the Saints' front 7 was giving Romo to decide where to throw the ball, so who do you replace him with?And if my memory serves me right, Robinson was in position to make a play on both of those big plays, but unfortunately he didn't or failed in trying to make those plays, which is why I think he has the capability to be a solid #2 CB - he at least has the speed for it which Patrick lacked. I'm all for upgrading every single player on the Saints' roster to a better player - if one can be found - but that is not possible even if the Saints had the cap room to do that, because elite players are just not available that often since teams tend to want to keep hold of them after they've been able to acquire such a player. Anyway, I'm willing to give Robinson another chance to prove his worth to the team, and if anything, he'll provide some needed depth on the Saints' backfield. I would love it if the Saints were able to bring in a bigger corner into the fold, someone they could put against those big receivers you listed. It would be excellent if the Saints were able to pick someone like Amerson (6-2) from the draft, but that would mean that they'd have to use their 1st round pick on him or trade back and use a gained 2nd rounder to pick him. Nevertheless, I still think that the defensive front is much more important to improve than the defensive backfield. |
Re: Holder: Saints Cut Dave Thomas, Johnny Patrick
Haha! Who is the best TE available in the 15th slot?
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Re: Holder: Saints Cut Dave Thomas, Johnny Patrick
New San Diego general manager Tom Telesco made a potentially intriguing move Wednesday by claiming cornerback Johnny Patrick off waivers from New Orleans.
CB-needy Chargers make claim - NFL Nation Blog - ESPN |
Re: Holder: Saints Cut Dave Thomas, Johnny Patrick
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Re: Holder: Saints Cut Dave Thomas, Johnny Patrick
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Re: Holder: Saints Cut Dave Thomas, Johnny Patrick
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And how you can be confused as to how we are talking about this, is frankly puzzling to me. I get that you believe P-Rob is better than Patrick. I agree with that... Though it isn't saying much. But when you said that Robinson was not bad, and later tried to blame his problems on his coach, I highly disagreed with both those points. I don't think it's rocket science, is it? |
Re: Holder: Saints Cut Dave Thomas, Johnny Patrick
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I really hope you and Danno are right about the scheme making a difference, but I just don't see how we can pawn off that level of suckage on just the scheme. |
Re: Holder: Saints Cut Dave Thomas, Johnny Patrick
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Re: Holder: Saints Cut Dave Thomas, Johnny Patrick
For a recent third-round pick who couldn’t get on the field for the league’s all-time worst defense (as measured by yards allowed), cornerback Johnny Patrick was popular yesterday.
After being released by the Saints, he was claimed off waivers by the Chargers. But according to Adam Caplan of TheSidelineView.com, the Seahawks and Colts also put in claims for the former Louisville corner. Patrick being popular (primarily because he’s cheap) illustrates the “one man’s trash is another man’s treasure” nature of the business, which is worth remembering as teams obsess over the measurables of mid- to late-round picks this week. Johnny Patrick was a popular waiver-wire name | ProFootballTalk |
Re: Holder: Saints Cut Dave Thomas, Johnny Patrick
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Re: Holder: Saints Cut Dave Thomas, Johnny Patrick
When corey white was struggling I was thinking "man why don't they just put Johnny Patrick out there, he looked great in preseason"
Then they finally did, and he single handedly nearly lost the dallas game for us Lets hope corey white is fully healthy and can continue from last season, he was playing real well before he got injured |
Re: Holder: Saints Cut Dave Thomas, Johnny Patrick
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Don't forget, many scouting sites thought his best fit in the NFL was at FS. Hmmm. |
Re: Holder: Saints Cut Dave Thomas, Johnny Patrick
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This is the best coverage by a saints DB on a deep pass that i've seen in a long while - he plays the ball very well in flight |
Re: Holder: Saints Cut Dave Thomas, Johnny Patrick
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Re: Holder: Saints Cut Dave Thomas, Johnny Patrick
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Re: Holder: Saints Cut Dave Thomas, Johnny Patrick
Seahawks DB Coach Kris Richard, only 33, would be an outstanding DC
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Re: Holder: Saints Cut Dave Thomas, Johnny Patrick
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Do you mean Andre Curtis, the assistant secondary coach, when you are talking about the Saints' DB coach? Because if you do, I think you are barking up the wrong tree, since he's only been with the team for a year and his track-record before that would indicate that he is more than capable of doing the job and developing the Saints' DBs. |
Re: Holder: Saints Cut Dave Thomas, Johnny Patrick
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Re: Holder: Saints Cut Dave Thomas, Johnny Patrick
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Still, he has only had a year to work with the secondary players, and that was a year in which both a new DC and a new secondary coach took over and implemented their schemes which were different than what the players were used to. So, I wouldn't put too much of the blame for the way the secondary performed last season on the shoulders of Curtis, but only time will tell if my belief in that regard was justified. |
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