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-   -   Are Loomis /Payton as good as their draft reputation? (https://blackandgold.com/saints/55627-loomis-payton-good-their-draft-reputation.html)

Danno 02-20-2013 02:47 PM
Re: Are Loomis /Payton as good as their draft reputation?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by AsylumGuido (Post 480884)
I don't know. Atlanta appears to have just as many misses as we have since 2006.
Are you kidding? Look at their successes...

1 6 Julio Jones WR Alabama
3 91 Akeem Dent LB Georgia
5 145 Jacquizz Rodgers RB Oregon State
6 192 Matt Bosher P Miami (Fla.)7
210 Andrew Jackson G Fresno State
7 230 Cliff Matthews DE South Carolina
2010 - Atlanta Falcons
RD SEL # PLAYER POSITION SCHOOL
1 19 Sean Weatherspoon OLB Missouri
3 83 Corey Peters DT Kentucky
3 98 Mike Johnson G Alabama
4 117 Joe Hawley C Nevada-Las Vegas
5 135 Dominique Franks DB Oklahoma
5 165 Kerry Meier WR Kansas
6 171 Shann Schillinger DB Montana
2009 - Atlanta Falcons
RD SEL # PLAYER POSITION SCHOOL
1 24 Peria Jerry DT Mississippi
2 55 William Moore DB Missouri
3 90 Chris Owens DB San Jose State
4 125 Lawrence Sidbury DE Richmond
5 138 William Middleton DB Furman
5 156 Garrett Reynolds T North Carolina
6 176 Spencer Adkins LB Miami (Fla.)
7 210 Vance Walker DT Georgia Tech
2008 - Atlanta Falcons
RD SEL # PLAYER POSITION SCHOOL
1 3 Matt Ryan QB Boston College
1 21 Sam Baker T USC
2 37 Curtis Lofton MLB Oklahoma
3 68 Chevis Jackson CB Louisiana State
3 84 Harry Douglas WR Louisville
3 98 Thomas DeCoud FS California
5 138 Robert James MLB Arizona State
5 154 Kroy Biermann DE Montana
6 172 Thomas Brown RB Georgia
7 212 Wilrey Fontenot CB Arizona
7 232 Keith Zinger TE Louisiana State
2007 - Atlanta Falcons
RD SEL # PLAYER POSITION SCHOOL
1 8 Jamaal Anderson DE Arkansas
2 39 Justin Blalock G Texas
2 41 Chris Houston CB Arkansas
3 75 Laurent Robinson WR Illinois State
4 109 Stephen Nicholas LB South Florida
4 133 Martrez Milner TE Georgia
6 185 Trey Lewis DT Washburn
6 194 David Irons CB Auburn
6 198 Doug Datish C Ohio State
6 203 Daren Stone DB Maine
7 244 Jason Snelling RB Virginia

Our top 20 picks wouldn't come close to their top 20 picks.

saintfan 02-20-2013 02:53 PM
Re: Are Loomis /Payton as good as their draft reputation?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by RaginCajun83 (Post 480872)
And who ever thinks that the draft is a crap shoot needs to get their head examined. There's a reason why some teams pick in the top 5-10 year after year, they can't scout and either reach or miss on players that were "sure" things
The reason some teams pick top 5-10 has to do with many things. Anyone who thinks the draft is the final culprit isn't paying attention. See my post above. The Patriots didn't draft extremely well from 2004-2008 and yet they won the most games in that span.

Ooops...

papz 02-20-2013 02:55 PM
Re: Are Loomis /Payton as good as their draft reputation?
 
I'm fine with calculated crapshoot. There are quite a few draft picks we've made that I've really liked... but so far has not panned out. I think what we need to do better is coach and develop our players up to match their talents. It's also hard to predict how a young man re-acts to newfound fame and fortune... which in turn, can affect their play on the field too.

Basically what I'm saying is that we need to do a better job minimizing our calulated crapshoot with better coaching and developing. They all have talent if not they wouldn't be considered... we need to get more out of them.

It certainly wouldn't hurt to add to the scouting department though to also help minimize the risk factors.

I don't think I'm playing both sides of the fence here am I?

saintfan 02-20-2013 02:57 PM
Re: Are Loomis /Payton as good as their draft reputation?
 
One of the better teams at drafting drafted one of if not the biggest busts in the history of the draft. It happens every year. The numbers lean so heavily in favor of 'gamble' it's insane. It's not even debatable really.

Danno 02-20-2013 02:58 PM
Re: Are Loomis /Payton as good as their draft reputation?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by saintfan (Post 480888)
The reason some teams pick top 5-10 has to do with many things. Anyone who thinks the draft is the final culprit isn't paying attention. See my post below. The Patriots didn't draft extremely well from 2004-2008 and yet they won the most games in that span.

Ooops...
Nice deflection. I never said the draft was the only way to succeed. The Pats are notorious for signing free-agents to accomplish their goals. And they have the best HC in the entire league.

I said some teams are better than others AT DRAFTING, and it appears we aren't very good at drafting of late, and the last 5 years of mostly failure sure point that out, especially compared with our rival.

Ooops...

Danno 02-20-2013 03:01 PM
Re: Are Loomis /Payton as good as their draft reputation?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by papz (Post 480889)
I'm fine with calculated crapshoot. There are quite a few draft picks we've made that I've really liked... but so far has not panned out. I think what we need to do better is coach and develop our players up to match their talents. It's also hard to predict how a young man re-acts to newfound fame and fortune... which in turn, can affect their play on the field too.

Basically what I'm saying is that we need to do a better job minimizing our calulated crapshoot with better coaching and developing. They all have talent if not they wouldn't be considered... we need to get more out of them.

It certainly wouldn't hurt to add to the scouting department though to also help minimize the risk factors.

I don't think I'm playing both sides of the fence here am I?
Well if you're of the opinion we need better scouts then obviously you think some teams are better than others at drafting, and better scouts equate to better drafting. So its obvious you agree that its not a crap shoot.

halloween 65 02-20-2013 03:02 PM
Re: Are Loomis /Payton as good as their draft reputation?
 
Well crap shoot or crap sh!t I hope we hit a homerun on a DT this draft!!

saintfan 02-20-2013 03:05 PM
Re: Are Loomis /Payton as good as their draft reputation?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Danno (Post 480891)
Nice deflection. I never said the draft was the only way to succeed. The Pats are notorious for signing free-agents to accomplish their goals. And they have the best HC in the entire league.

I said some teams are better than others AT DRAFTING, and it appears we aren't very good at drafting of late, and the last 5 years of mostly failure sure point that out, especially compared with our rival.

Ooops...
Deflection? It's a fact, and not directed at you but at the person who posted it. I said the same thing several posts above. The numbers don't lie Danno.

And FWIW I agree with you that some teams are better than others. We disagree it seems because I assert that even though some are better than others this doesn't change the fact that it's still a gamble. It is. Every pick is a risk because NOBODY can successfully translate college performance to pro performance. That's why they measure everything - even stupid stuff, because they're trying to make an extremely precise thing from something that cannot be made so.

I'm sorry dude. That's just the way it is.

iWho_Dat 02-20-2013 03:18 PM
Re: Are Loomis /Payton as good as their draft reputation?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by dizzle88 (Post 480798)
Obviously none of us know what its like in the draft rooms but there are some serious questions with our recent drafting skills

Patrick Robinson - 1st round when he wasn't even the best CB on his team
Usama young - 2nd round WTF!!
Taylor melhaff - off the team after half a season
Sed Ellis - What a joke
Chip Vaughan and Stanley Arnoux - beasts in college and never even made it on the field here
Al Woods - Cut in preseason for lack of work ethic

Something needs to change with our draft strategy, cuz it aint working
Yeah your exactly right!! All the rookies we draft hicks, Tez, and even Gallett although he's not a rookie anymore have all proven they could play and play very well. But we still go with will smith, Sed Ellis Vilma and Shanle??? Are u kidding me??? Cam Jordan is the only defensive player I've been impressed with in the past few defensive picks. But Tez, Gallett and hicks I believe are ready to play. Let us draft Mingo or D Jordan. And we're set. On the front 7 IMO given will smith Ellis Vilma and Shanle don't see the field.

saintfan 02-20-2013 03:20 PM
Re: Are Loomis /Payton as good as their draft reputation?
 
Oh and by the way, guess who drafted all these guys:

Art Monk, Joe Jacoby, Mark May, Russ Grimm, Dexter Manley, Charlie Brown, Darrell Green, Charles Mann, and Gary Clark.

The same guy who drafted this guy:
http://thumbs.mugshots.com/gallery/i...54.400x800.jpg

Oh yeah - crap shoot. An exact science it surely ain't.

RaginCajun83 02-20-2013 05:21 PM
Re: Are Loomis /Payton as good as their draft reputation?
 
Leaf had bust written all over him leading up to the draft but the Chargers were so desperate for a QB and media hype didn't help things. Doesn't matter that he's 1A or 1B when it comes to busts, he's still one of my favorite sound bytes "Knock it off, don't talk to me" that's PR 101

RaginCajun83 02-20-2013 05:24 PM
Re: Are Loomis /Payton as good as their draft reputation?
 
Back on topic .... I'm seen guys that I've wanted the Saints to draft (J Patrick) and see them fail miserably and seen guys (T Porter) gives us the greatest moment in the history of the franchise. Being a scout has to be one of the hardest behind the scene jobs in sports because its a eye lash between being a genius and being unemployed

Seer1 02-20-2013 05:38 PM
Re: Are Loomis /Payton as good as their draft reputation?
 
Do they really have much of a draft reputation? Seems to me their shining moments come about in other areas than the draft.

papz 02-20-2013 06:00 PM
Re: Are Loomis /Payton as good as their draft reputation?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Danno (Post 480892)
Well if you're of the opinion we need better scouts then obviously you think some teams are better than others at drafting, and better scouts equate to better drafting. So its obvious you agree that its not a crap shoot.
I do think we need some better scouts.

At the same time, I think there's a big difference between a crap shoot and a calculated crap shoot. That's why I can't dismiss either one of yours of saintfan's point. There's logic between both and the think the problem here lies within the word "crap shoot".

I don't agree the draft is "just" a crap shoot but I do agree it's a calculated gamble/crap shoot. Obviously, like gambling, some are better than others at it. Just a crap shoot would be saying the draft is all luck... which it isn't and not something I agree with either.

Danno 02-20-2013 06:10 PM
Re: Are Loomis /Payton as good as their draft reputation?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seer1 (Post 480925)
Do they really have much of a draft reputation? Seems to me their shining moments come about in other areas than the draft.
I started this thread because someone mentioned how well we drafted in later rounds. I looked and not only was that not true, the list I posted basically exposed our draft success as a myth. We've been pretty bad at it after 2006

saintfan 02-20-2013 06:16 PM
Re: Are Loomis /Payton as good as their draft reputation?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by papz (Post 480934)
I do think we need some better scouts.

At the same time, I think there's a big difference between a crap shoot and a calculated crap shoot. That's why I can't dismiss either one of yours of saintfan's point. There's logic between both and the think the problem here lies within the word "crap shoot".

I don't agree the draft is "just" a crap shoot but I do agree it's a calculated gamble/crap shoot. Obviously, like gambling, some are better than others at it. Just a crap shoot would be saying the draft is all luck... which it isn't and not something I agree with either.
Which is why I likened it to black jack. As I've said, there are some players who understand the game of black jack and therefore are less likely to get burned by the house, but no matter how good you are, if you play long enough, the house WILL win, because it's a gamble - a crap shoot.

The very same thing is true of the NFL draft. All the measureables in the world cannot, have not, do not, and will not prevent an otherwise educated drafter from a bust, be it slight, moderate, severe, or all three. It happens to them all because it isn't an exact science. It cannot be. There is no way to know who's game will translate and who's game won't. Two many cannot miss prospects fail. Too many 7th rounders or, for that matter, undrafted guys have amazing success. If there was a way to know then we wouldn't be here debating it because we could point to someone who has been consistently successful. We can't. That person doesn't exist. Those who have had success have had just as much failure.

Seer1 02-20-2013 06:36 PM
Re: Are Loomis /Payton as good as their draft reputation?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Danno (Post 480937)
I started this thread because someone mentioned how well we drafted in later rounds. I looked and not only was that not true, the list I posted basically exposed our draft success as a myth. We've been pretty bad at it after 2006
I think I may have said that and I blame the martinis as my wife's out of town so can't shoulder any of it. I guess my perception is that we do much better in the middle and end of the draft than we do at the beginning. I don't have any numbers to prove it, but I'm thinking we pretty much suck at the draft in comparison to most of the other top teams.

Danno 02-20-2013 06:47 PM
Re: Are Loomis /Payton as good as their draft reputation?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seer1 (Post 480950)
I think I may have said that and I blame the martinis as my wife's out of town so can't shoulder any of it. I guess my perception is that we do much better in the middle and end of the draft than we do at the beginning. I don't have any numbers to prove it, but I'm thinking we pretty much suck at the draft in comparison to most of the other top teams.
No prob, I think we all thought that until recently. The 2009 draft opened my eyes. Could be the worst draft in Saint history. I truly think drawing names out of a hat would have yielded better results than that debacle.

2007 ain't much to brag about either. And with the exception of Graham, 2010 ain't looking so hot either unless P-Rob comes around.

RaginCajun83 02-20-2013 06:56 PM
Re: Are Loomis /Payton as good as their draft reputation?
 
1979 has to be the worst draft ever, a P/K in the 1st round. What kind of drugs were they on back then?

Seer1 02-20-2013 06:59 PM
Re: Are Loomis /Payton as good as their draft reputation?
 
As long as we're beatin' ourselves with a stick, don't forget Ricky Williams...

Danno 02-20-2013 06:59 PM
Re: Are Loomis /Payton as good as their draft reputation?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by RaginCajun83 (Post 480955)
1979 has to be the worst draft ever, a P/K in the 1st round. What kind of drugs were they on back then?
Obviously you don't know how important a punter is. /sarcasm

RaginCajun83 02-20-2013 07:00 PM
Re: Are Loomis /Payton as good as their draft reputation?
 
I guess not that much since there isn't one in the hall of fame /sarcasm

Danno 02-20-2013 07:02 PM
Re: Are Loomis /Payton as good as their draft reputation?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by RaginCajun83 (Post 480958)
I guess not that much since there isn't one in the hall of fame /sarcasm
Combined with the fact that no team every picks one on day 1, or the fact that only 1 or 2 are drafted every year, or the fact that every team that does pick one has extra picks in the draft, or that... aww nevermind.

Seer1 02-20-2013 07:05 PM
Re: Are Loomis /Payton as good as their draft reputation?
 
C'mon now. Morestead was one of the shining stars on our defense last year.

jeanpierre 02-20-2013 07:14 PM
Re: Are Loomis /Payton as good as their draft reputation?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by RaginCajun83 (Post 480871)
Saints are an offensive football team so of course the scouts would find more talent on that side of the ball and not so much on defense. Look at the Steelers, they have hit on a bunch of defensive players but have struck out on offensive and offensive linemen like its going out of style
QB Ben Roethlisberger, C Maurkice Pouncey, G/T Willie Colon (Hofstra), WR Antonio Brown, WR Mike Wallace, RB Rashard Mendenhall, RT Max Starks - Ragin you;re aching brother, cause the Steelers get it done on both sides of the ball and that's why they get perennial consideration...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Danno (Post 480875)
I suddenly have a feeling several of you bastads are just jerking my chain. :p
We give as good as we get Bama Lover!

Quote:
Originally Posted by AsylumGuido (Post 480884)
I don't know. Atlanta appears to have just as many misses as we have since 2006.
F*** the Clowns, we know we're better; it's Pittsburgh, Baltimore, San Fran that we want comparable drafts...

Quote:
Originally Posted by RaginCajun83 (Post 480923)
Being a scout has to be one of the hardest behind the scene jobs in sports because its a eye lash between being a genius and being unemployed

Bullshinski, take an oath to the constitution, take a weapon, and take a ride over the pond; or watch Mike Rowe - those are hard jobs! Most scouts are hired by nepotistic means and have less ability at assessing football than B&G Members!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Danno (Post 480937)
I started this thread because someone mentioned how well we drafted in later rounds. I looked and not only was that not true, the list I posted basically exposed our draft success as a myth. We've been pretty bad at it after 2006
Actually, Hagan (sorry Bro, gotta drag you in with me) and I have been banging the drum that Loomis is overrated as a GM and that he either needs to get a talent department to match his salary cap expertise and Sean Payton's Field General Skills or we need to find a new GM cause any bean counter can slot salaries and pick up Mr Benson's Dry Cleaning; because you shouldn't be named Executive of the Year because you drafted Colston in the 7th round when you and every other team passed on him for six-plus rounds!

alleycat_126 02-20-2013 07:16 PM
Re: Are Loomis /Payton as good as their draft reputation?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Danno (Post 480870)
I think there definitely are certain teams and certain scouts that are better at spotting and drafting talent than others.
I'd love to know which teams draft better than everybody else. Cause this team must be the 20 time SB champs..... The team putting all this NFL talent on the field at seven picks per season should never get beat!!!!!

alleycat_126 02-20-2013 07:34 PM
Re: Are Loomis /Payton as good as their draft reputation?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by saintfan (Post 480885)
Between 2004-2008:

31.70 is the percentage of drafted players on the roster
19.50 is the percentage of players drafted who are actually starters
7.30 is the percentage of drafted pro bowl players
78.75 is the winning percentage

For which team?

3 in 10 are still on the roster. 2 in 10 actually start.

For a team with a near 80% winning mark over the 4 years in question?

That's Bill Belichik and the New England Patriots.

13 teams managed to keep 50% or more of their drafter players on the roster (maybe many of those rosters sucked). 36.4 was the highest percentage of drafted starters. The rest of the league was below that. Over the 4 years, the Patriots had the highest winning percentage.

For the Saints over the 4 years, 4 in 10 make the roster and 3 in 10 start.

It's a crap shoot Danno - at best an educated gamble. Still a gamble any way you slice it.
Preach!!!

RaginCajun83 02-20-2013 07:51 PM
Re: Are Loomis /Payton as good as their draft reputation?
 
"Bullshinski, take an oath to the constitution, take a weapon, and take a ride over the pond; or watch Mike Rowe - those are hard jobs! Most scouts are hired by nepotistic means and have less ability at assessing football than B&G Members!"

Pretty sure I said "behind the scene jobs in sports"

How in the world did I ever compare it to any real jobs? I said IN SPORTS

No **** it doesn't compare to serving your country and I wasn't trying to say so

jeanpierre 02-20-2013 08:12 PM
Re: Are Loomis /Payton as good as their draft reputation?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by RaginCajun83 (Post 480979)
"Bullshinski, take an oath to the constitution, take a weapon, and take a ride over the pond; or watch Mike Rowe - those are hard jobs! Most scouts are hired by nepotistic means and have less ability at assessing football than B&G Members!"

Pretty sure I said "behind the scene jobs in sports"

How in the world did I ever compare it to any real jobs? I said IN SPORTS

No **** it doesn't compare to serving your country and I wasn't trying to say so
Oh if you sense any aggression it's not towards you - I've heard some Saints scouts whine and ***** at a Metairie watering hole when every regular at that sports bar had been part of conversations "pre-draft" that would have put the Saints, talent-wise, in the SuperBowl years before that magical run...

jeanpierre 02-20-2013 08:17 PM
Re: Are Loomis /Payton as good as their draft reputation?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by alleycat_126 (Post 480967)
I'd love to know which teams draft better than everybody else. Cause this team must be the 20 time SB champs..... The team putting all this NFL talent on the field at seven picks per season should never get beat!!!!!
Alley, I'd put Pittsburgh, Baltimore, NY Giants, San Fran as teams that draft much better than others...

RaginCajun83 02-20-2013 08:21 PM
Re: Are Loomis /Payton as good as their draft reputation?
 
Well look a the track record of those so called "scouts" back then, some of those drafts look like they were throwing darts to make selections

TheOak 02-21-2013 05:05 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Danno (Post 480887)
Are you kidding? Look at their successes...

1 6 Julio Jones WR Alabama
3 91 Akeem Dent LB Georgia
5 145 Jacquizz Rodgers RB Oregon State
6 192 Matt Bosher P Miami (Fla.)7
210 Andrew Jackson G Fresno State
7 230 Cliff Matthews DE South Carolina
2010 - Atlanta Falcons
RD SEL # PLAYER POSITION SCHOOL
1 19 Sean Weatherspoon OLB Missouri
3 83 Corey Peters DT Kentucky
3 98 Mike Johnson G Alabama
4 117 Joe Hawley C Nevada-Las Vegas
5 135 Dominique Franks DB Oklahoma
5 165 Kerry Meier WR Kansas
6 171 Shann Schillinger DB Montana
2009 - Atlanta Falcons
RD SEL # PLAYER POSITION SCHOOL
1 24 Peria Jerry DT Mississippi
2 55 William Moore DB Missouri
3 90 Chris Owens DB San Jose State
4 125 Lawrence Sidbury DE Richmond
5 138 William Middleton DB Furman
5 156 Garrett Reynolds T North Carolina
6 176 Spencer Adkins LB Miami (Fla.)
7 210 Vance Walker DT Georgia Tech
2008 - Atlanta Falcons
RD SEL # PLAYER POSITION SCHOOL
1 3 Matt Ryan QB Boston College
1 21 Sam Baker T USC
2 37 Curtis Lofton MLB Oklahoma
3 68 Chevis Jackson CB Louisiana State
3 84 Harry Douglas WR Louisville
3 98 Thomas DeCoud FS California
5 138 Robert James MLB Arizona State
5 154 Kroy Biermann DE Montana
6 172 Thomas Brown RB Georgia
7 212 Wilrey Fontenot CB Arizona
7 232 Keith Zinger TE Louisiana State
2007 - Atlanta Falcons
RD SEL # PLAYER POSITION SCHOOL
1 8 Jamaal Anderson DE Arkansas
2 39 Justin Blalock G Texas
2 41 Chris Houston CB Arkansas
3 75 Laurent Robinson WR Illinois State
4 109 Stephen Nicholas LB South Florida
4 133 Martrez Milner TE Georgia
6 185 Trey Lewis DT Washburn
6 194 David Irons CB Auburn
6 198 Doug Datish C Ohio State
6 203 Daren Stone DB Maine
7 244 Jason Snelling RB Virginia

Our top 20 picks wouldn't come close to their top 20 picks.
How do you define success ?

I define it as Super Bowl 44

TheOak 02-21-2013 05:09 AM
All of this unreliability in the draft is precisely why I gave been saying we can't draft our way out of a bad defense.

xan 02-21-2013 07:27 AM
Re: Are Loomis /Payton as good as their draft reputation?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheOak (Post 481026)
All of this unreliability in the draft is precisely why I gave been saying we can't draft our way out of a bad defense.
I disagree. You can draft your way out of a bad defense, as long as your time horizon is FOREVER.

Problem with defenders is that they actually have to be smart enough to read the offense, intuitive enough to know how to adjust, and have the communication skills to get the other 10 guys on the same page.

Good defenses layer in a scheme that fits the abilities of the players and a commitment to tackling.

I don't think we've had the scheme, the players, or the commitment to have any kind of quality defense. And further, we can change the scheme all we want, (and have!) but the fact of the matter is that transforming this defense will require at least 15 new players. Not happening in 3 drafts, much less 1. With our available budget, the likelihood of any quality improvement for 2013 is low.

If this defense can allow just 10% fewer yards and 5% fewer points, I'd buy the online beer for the first round of the playoffs.

xan 02-21-2013 07:31 AM
Re: Are Loomis /Payton as good as their draft reputation?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by xan (Post 481037)
If this defense can allow just 10% fewer yards and 5% fewer points, I'd buy the online beer for the first round of the playoffs.

Before all you jump on that bet, I want to hedge it by stipulating that Brees has to stop throwing pics at an unsustainable rate. I don't care how good your defense is, if they're only given an average of a 1:30 minute break 40% of the time, they are going to suck.

alleycat_126 02-21-2013 07:31 AM
Re: Are Loomis /Payton as good as their draft reputation?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheOak (Post 481025)
How do you define success ?

I define it as Super Bowl 44
Preach!!!!

pherein 02-21-2013 11:20 AM
Re: Are Loomis /Payton as good as their draft reputation?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Danno (Post 480729)
Yes, they knocked it out of the park in 2006, no doubt.

But since then have they really drafted all that well? Other than Nicks and Graham, and to a lesser extent Ingram and Jordan, it doesn't look so good.

I'm not including 2012 since its too early to judge.

2011 1 1 24 24 Cameron Jordan DE California
2011 2 1 28 28 Mark Ingram RB Alabama
2011 3 3 8 72 Martez Wilson LB Illinois
2011 4 3 24 88 Johnny Patrick DB Louisville
2011 5 7 23 226 Greg Romeus DE Pittsburgh
2011 6 7 40 243 Nate Bussey LB Illinois
2010 1 1 32 32 Patrick Robinson DB Florida State
2010 2 2 32 64 Charles Brown T USC
2010 3 3 31 95 Jimmy Graham TE Miami (FL)
2010 4 4 25 123 Al Woods DT Louisiana State
2010 5 5 27 158 Matt Tennant C Boston College
2010 6 7 32 239 Sean Canfield QB Oregon State
2009 1 1 14 14 Malcolm Jenkins DB Ohio State
2009 2 4 16 116 Chip Vaughn DB Wake Forest
2009 3 4 18 118 Stanley Arnoux LB Wake Forest
2009 4 5 28 164 Thomas Morstead P Southern Methodist
2008 1 1 7 7 Sedrick Ellis DT USC
2008 2 2 9 40 Tracy Porter DB Indiana
2008 3 5 9 144 DeMario Pressley DT North Carolina State
2008 4 5 29 164 Carl Nicks T Nebraska
2008 5 6 12 178 Taylor Mehlhaff K Wisconsin
2008 6 7 30 237 Adrian Arrington WR Michigan
2007 1 1 27 27 Robert Meachem WR Tennessee
2007 2 3 2 66 Usama Young DB Kent State
2007 3 3 25 88 Andy Alleman G Akron
2007 4 4 8 107 Antonio Pittman RB Ohio State
2007 5 4 26 125 Jermon Bushrod T Towson
2007 6 5 8 145 David Jones DB Wingate
2007 7 7 10 220 Marvin Mitchell LB Tennessee
I smell suck..
I just dont understand some things. For one Meachem wasnt a bust in the end. Neither was Bushrod or Arrington. Their not proballers but they dont completely suck.
And if your going to take the draft into accout, you have to take the entire draft. You cant just pick and choose what you might think to be the bad side.

What about Lance Moore, P. Thomas ? I mean the undrafted are just as important as the draft. Just a thought.

Danno 02-21-2013 11:28 AM
Re: Are Loomis /Payton as good as their draft reputation?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by pherein (Post 481059)
I just dont understand some things. For one Meachem wasnt a bust in the end. Neither was Bushrod or Arrington. Their not proballers but they donrt completely suck.
And if your going to take the draft into accout, you have to take the entire draft. You cant just pick and choose what you might think to be the bad side.

What about Lance Moore, P. Thomas ? I mean the undrafted are just as important as the draft. Just a thought.
True, I usually do consider UDFA as part of the draft process. I was reponding to a claim that we do much better in later rounds, so I looked and saw that we haven't.

I'm not sure I'd consider AA as a success. He never really got there.

I should have included Bushrod.

Meachem was OK. I just highlited the obvious winners we drafted.

Either way, that list looks a lot worse than I thought it would when I pulled it up.

Seer1 02-21-2013 11:41 AM
Re: Are Loomis /Payton as good as their draft reputation?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by xan (Post 481038)
Before all you jump on that bet, I want to hedge it by stipulating that Brees has to stop throwing pics at an unsustainable rate. I don't care how good your defense is, if they're only given an average of a 1:30 minute break 40% of the time, they are going to suck.
Or you can be like me and blame many of Drew's ints on the defense. He knew the defense was gong to give up three scores in the fourth quarter and he simply tried too hard to compensate. I've been watching that boy play since he was at Purdue and that is the one type of pressure he's never been able to handle well.

pherein 02-21-2013 11:48 AM
Re: Are Loomis /Payton as good as their draft reputation?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Danno (Post 481060)
True, I usually do consider UDFA as part of the draft process. I was reponding to a claim that we do much better in later rounds, so I looked and saw that we haven't.

I'm not sure I'd consider AA as a success. He never really got there.

I should have included Bushrod.

Meachem was OK. I just highlited the obvious winners we drafted.

Either way, that list looks a lot worse than I thought it would when I pulled it up.
Yeah, I think you have to look at UDFA, because we draft based on BPA, and know the undrafted that will be available, but target them quickly, call them the next day, and get them in here to try out. Most team would kill for a Moore or Thomas, and they have done a good job keeping them inhouse.

AA is ok. When hes on the field he does great. Problem is keeping him on the field, lol, but the talent is their.

We also have a couple 2011 drafts like Wilson and Romeus that are still in development. So its hard to pin them as a bust just yet. LOL, it took forever to get Meachum to catch the ball, but he eventually did.

Though, I completely admit our defensive drafts have been pretty bad or below average.


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