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Re: Are Loomis /Payton as good as their draft reputation?
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1 6 Julio Jones WR Alabama 3 91 Akeem Dent LB Georgia 5 145 Jacquizz Rodgers RB Oregon State 6 192 Matt Bosher P Miami (Fla.)7 210 Andrew Jackson G Fresno State 7 230 Cliff Matthews DE South Carolina 2010 - Atlanta Falcons RD SEL # PLAYER POSITION SCHOOL 1 19 Sean Weatherspoon OLB Missouri 3 83 Corey Peters DT Kentucky 3 98 Mike Johnson G Alabama 4 117 Joe Hawley C Nevada-Las Vegas 5 135 Dominique Franks DB Oklahoma 5 165 Kerry Meier WR Kansas 6 171 Shann Schillinger DB Montana 2009 - Atlanta Falcons RD SEL # PLAYER POSITION SCHOOL 1 24 Peria Jerry DT Mississippi 2 55 William Moore DB Missouri 3 90 Chris Owens DB San Jose State 4 125 Lawrence Sidbury DE Richmond 5 138 William Middleton DB Furman 5 156 Garrett Reynolds T North Carolina 6 176 Spencer Adkins LB Miami (Fla.) 7 210 Vance Walker DT Georgia Tech 2008 - Atlanta Falcons RD SEL # PLAYER POSITION SCHOOL 1 3 Matt Ryan QB Boston College 1 21 Sam Baker T USC 2 37 Curtis Lofton MLB Oklahoma 3 68 Chevis Jackson CB Louisiana State 3 84 Harry Douglas WR Louisville 3 98 Thomas DeCoud FS California 5 138 Robert James MLB Arizona State 5 154 Kroy Biermann DE Montana 6 172 Thomas Brown RB Georgia 7 212 Wilrey Fontenot CB Arizona 7 232 Keith Zinger TE Louisiana State 2007 - Atlanta Falcons RD SEL # PLAYER POSITION SCHOOL 1 8 Jamaal Anderson DE Arkansas 2 39 Justin Blalock G Texas 2 41 Chris Houston CB Arkansas 3 75 Laurent Robinson WR Illinois State 4 109 Stephen Nicholas LB South Florida 4 133 Martrez Milner TE Georgia 6 185 Trey Lewis DT Washburn 6 194 David Irons CB Auburn 6 198 Doug Datish C Ohio State 6 203 Daren Stone DB Maine 7 244 Jason Snelling RB Virginia Our top 20 picks wouldn't come close to their top 20 picks. |
Re: Are Loomis /Payton as good as their draft reputation?
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Ooops... |
Re: Are Loomis /Payton as good as their draft reputation?
I'm fine with calculated crapshoot. There are quite a few draft picks we've made that I've really liked... but so far has not panned out. I think what we need to do better is coach and develop our players up to match their talents. It's also hard to predict how a young man re-acts to newfound fame and fortune... which in turn, can affect their play on the field too.
Basically what I'm saying is that we need to do a better job minimizing our calulated crapshoot with better coaching and developing. They all have talent if not they wouldn't be considered... we need to get more out of them. It certainly wouldn't hurt to add to the scouting department though to also help minimize the risk factors. I don't think I'm playing both sides of the fence here am I? |
Re: Are Loomis /Payton as good as their draft reputation?
One of the better teams at drafting drafted one of if not the biggest busts in the history of the draft. It happens every year. The numbers lean so heavily in favor of 'gamble' it's insane. It's not even debatable really.
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I said some teams are better than others AT DRAFTING, and it appears we aren't very good at drafting of late, and the last 5 years of mostly failure sure point that out, especially compared with our rival. Ooops... |
Re: Are Loomis /Payton as good as their draft reputation?
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Re: Are Loomis /Payton as good as their draft reputation?
Well crap shoot or crap sh!t I hope we hit a homerun on a DT this draft!!
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Re: Are Loomis /Payton as good as their draft reputation?
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And FWIW I agree with you that some teams are better than others. We disagree it seems because I assert that even though some are better than others this doesn't change the fact that it's still a gamble. It is. Every pick is a risk because NOBODY can successfully translate college performance to pro performance. That's why they measure everything - even stupid stuff, because they're trying to make an extremely precise thing from something that cannot be made so. I'm sorry dude. That's just the way it is. |
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Re: Are Loomis /Payton as good as their draft reputation?
Oh and by the way, guess who drafted all these guys:
Art Monk, Joe Jacoby, Mark May, Russ Grimm, Dexter Manley, Charlie Brown, Darrell Green, Charles Mann, and Gary Clark. The same guy who drafted this guy: http://thumbs.mugshots.com/gallery/i...54.400x800.jpg Oh yeah - crap shoot. An exact science it surely ain't. |
Re: Are Loomis /Payton as good as their draft reputation?
Leaf had bust written all over him leading up to the draft but the Chargers were so desperate for a QB and media hype didn't help things. Doesn't matter that he's 1A or 1B when it comes to busts, he's still one of my favorite sound bytes "Knock it off, don't talk to me" that's PR 101
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Re: Are Loomis /Payton as good as their draft reputation?
Back on topic .... I'm seen guys that I've wanted the Saints to draft (J Patrick) and see them fail miserably and seen guys (T Porter) gives us the greatest moment in the history of the franchise. Being a scout has to be one of the hardest behind the scene jobs in sports because its a eye lash between being a genius and being unemployed
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Re: Are Loomis /Payton as good as their draft reputation?
Do they really have much of a draft reputation? Seems to me their shining moments come about in other areas than the draft.
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At the same time, I think there's a big difference between a crap shoot and a calculated crap shoot. That's why I can't dismiss either one of yours of saintfan's point. There's logic between both and the think the problem here lies within the word "crap shoot". I don't agree the draft is "just" a crap shoot but I do agree it's a calculated gamble/crap shoot. Obviously, like gambling, some are better than others at it. Just a crap shoot would be saying the draft is all luck... which it isn't and not something I agree with either. |
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The very same thing is true of the NFL draft. All the measureables in the world cannot, have not, do not, and will not prevent an otherwise educated drafter from a bust, be it slight, moderate, severe, or all three. It happens to them all because it isn't an exact science. It cannot be. There is no way to know who's game will translate and who's game won't. Two many cannot miss prospects fail. Too many 7th rounders or, for that matter, undrafted guys have amazing success. If there was a way to know then we wouldn't be here debating it because we could point to someone who has been consistently successful. We can't. That person doesn't exist. Those who have had success have had just as much failure. |
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2007 ain't much to brag about either. And with the exception of Graham, 2010 ain't looking so hot either unless P-Rob comes around. |
Re: Are Loomis /Payton as good as their draft reputation?
1979 has to be the worst draft ever, a P/K in the 1st round. What kind of drugs were they on back then?
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Re: Are Loomis /Payton as good as their draft reputation?
As long as we're beatin' ourselves with a stick, don't forget Ricky Williams...
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Re: Are Loomis /Payton as good as their draft reputation?
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Re: Are Loomis /Payton as good as their draft reputation?
I guess not that much since there isn't one in the hall of fame /sarcasm
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Re: Are Loomis /Payton as good as their draft reputation?
C'mon now. Morestead was one of the shining stars on our defense last year.
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Re: Are Loomis /Payton as good as their draft reputation?
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Bullshinski, take an oath to the constitution, take a weapon, and take a ride over the pond; or watch Mike Rowe - those are hard jobs! Most scouts are hired by nepotistic means and have less ability at assessing football than B&G Members! Quote:
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Re: Are Loomis /Payton as good as their draft reputation?
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Re: Are Loomis /Payton as good as their draft reputation?
"Bullshinski, take an oath to the constitution, take a weapon, and take a ride over the pond; or watch Mike Rowe - those are hard jobs! Most scouts are hired by nepotistic means and have less ability at assessing football than B&G Members!"
Pretty sure I said "behind the scene jobs in sports" How in the world did I ever compare it to any real jobs? I said IN SPORTS No **** it doesn't compare to serving your country and I wasn't trying to say so |
Re: Are Loomis /Payton as good as their draft reputation?
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Re: Are Loomis /Payton as good as their draft reputation?
Well look a the track record of those so called "scouts" back then, some of those drafts look like they were throwing darts to make selections
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I define it as Super Bowl 44 |
All of this unreliability in the draft is precisely why I gave been saying we can't draft our way out of a bad defense.
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Re: Are Loomis /Payton as good as their draft reputation?
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Problem with defenders is that they actually have to be smart enough to read the offense, intuitive enough to know how to adjust, and have the communication skills to get the other 10 guys on the same page. Good defenses layer in a scheme that fits the abilities of the players and a commitment to tackling. I don't think we've had the scheme, the players, or the commitment to have any kind of quality defense. And further, we can change the scheme all we want, (and have!) but the fact of the matter is that transforming this defense will require at least 15 new players. Not happening in 3 drafts, much less 1. With our available budget, the likelihood of any quality improvement for 2013 is low. If this defense can allow just 10% fewer yards and 5% fewer points, I'd buy the online beer for the first round of the playoffs. |
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Before all you jump on that bet, I want to hedge it by stipulating that Brees has to stop throwing pics at an unsustainable rate. I don't care how good your defense is, if they're only given an average of a 1:30 minute break 40% of the time, they are going to suck. |
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And if your going to take the draft into accout, you have to take the entire draft. You cant just pick and choose what you might think to be the bad side. What about Lance Moore, P. Thomas ? I mean the undrafted are just as important as the draft. Just a thought. |
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I'm not sure I'd consider AA as a success. He never really got there. I should have included Bushrod. Meachem was OK. I just highlited the obvious winners we drafted. Either way, that list looks a lot worse than I thought it would when I pulled it up. |
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AA is ok. When hes on the field he does great. Problem is keeping him on the field, lol, but the talent is their. We also have a couple 2011 drafts like Wilson and Romeus that are still in development. So its hard to pin them as a bust just yet. LOL, it took forever to get Meachum to catch the ball, but he eventually did. Though, I completely admit our defensive drafts have been pretty bad or below average. |
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