Are Loomis /Payton as good as their draft reputation?

Danno · 02-20-2013, 02:47 PM

Originally Posted by AsylumGuido

I don't know. Atlanta appears to have just as many misses as we have since 2006.

Are you kidding? Look at their successes...

1 6 Julio Jones WR Alabama
3 91 Akeem Dent LB Georgia
5 145 Jacquizz Rodgers RB Oregon State
6 192 Matt Bosher P Miami (Fla.)7
210 Andrew Jackson G Fresno State
7 230 Cliff Matthews DE South Carolina
2010 - Atlanta Falcons
RD SEL # PLAYER POSITION SCHOOL
1 19 Sean Weatherspoon OLB Missouri
3 83 Corey Peters DT Kentucky
3 98 Mike Johnson G Alabama
4 117 Joe Hawley C Nevada-Las Vegas
5 135 Dominique Franks DB Oklahoma
5 165 Kerry Meier WR Kansas
6 171 Shann Schillinger DB Montana
2009 - Atlanta Falcons
RD SEL # PLAYER POSITION SCHOOL
1 24 Peria Jerry DT Mississippi
2 55 William Moore DB Missouri
3 90 Chris Owens DB San Jose State
4 125 Lawrence Sidbury DE Richmond
5 138 William Middleton DB Furman
5 156 Garrett Reynolds T North Carolina
6 176 Spencer Adkins LB Miami (Fla.)
7 210 Vance Walker DT Georgia Tech
2008 - Atlanta Falcons
RD SEL # PLAYER POSITION SCHOOL
1 3 Matt Ryan QB Boston College
1 21 Sam Baker T USC
2 37 Curtis Lofton MLB Oklahoma
3 68 Chevis Jackson CB Louisiana State
3 84 Harry Douglas WR Louisville
3 98 Thomas DeCoud FS California
5 138 Robert James MLB Arizona State
5 154 Kroy Biermann DE Montana
6 172 Thomas Brown RB Georgia
7 212 Wilrey Fontenot CB Arizona
7 232 Keith Zinger TE Louisiana State
2007 - Atlanta Falcons
RD SEL # PLAYER POSITION SCHOOL
1 8 Jamaal Anderson DE Arkansas
2 39 Justin Blalock G Texas
2 41 Chris Houston CB Arkansas
3 75 Laurent Robinson WR Illinois State
4 109 Stephen Nicholas LB South Florida
4 133 Martrez Milner TE Georgia
6 185 Trey Lewis DT Washburn
6 194 David Irons CB Auburn
6 198 Doug Datish C Ohio State
6 203 Daren Stone DB Maine
7 244 Jason Snelling RB Virginia

Our top 20 picks wouldn't come close to their top 20 picks.

saintfan · 02-20-2013, 02:53 PM

Originally Posted by RaginCajun83

And who ever thinks that the draft is a crap shoot needs to get their head examined. There's a reason why some teams pick in the top 5-10 year after year, they can't scout and either reach or miss on players that were "sure" things

The reason some teams pick top 5-10 has to do with many things. Anyone who thinks the draft is the final culprit isn't paying attention. See my post above. The Patriots didn't draft extremely well from 2004-2008 and yet they won the most games in that span.

Ooops...

papz · 02-20-2013, 02:55 PM

I'm fine with calculated crapshoot. There are quite a few draft picks we've made that I've really liked... but so far has not panned out. I think what we need to do better is coach and develop our players up to match their talents. It's also hard to predict how a young man re-acts to newfound fame and fortune... which in turn, can affect their play on the field too.

Basically what I'm saying is that we need to do a better job minimizing our calulated crapshoot with better coaching and developing. They all have talent if not they wouldn't be considered... we need to get more out of them.

It certainly wouldn't hurt to add to the scouting department though to also help minimize the risk factors.

I don't think I'm playing both sides of the fence here am I?

saintfan · 02-20-2013, 02:57 PM

One of the better teams at drafting drafted one of if not the biggest busts in the history of the draft. It happens every year. The numbers lean so heavily in favor of 'gamble' it's insane. It's not even debatable really.

Danno · 02-20-2013, 02:58 PM

Originally Posted by saintfan

The reason some teams pick top 5-10 has to do with many things. Anyone who thinks the draft is the final culprit isn't paying attention. See my post below. The Patriots didn't draft extremely well from 2004-2008 and yet they won the most games in that span.

Ooops...

Nice deflection. I never said the draft was the only way to succeed. The Pats are notorious for signing free-agents to accomplish their goals. And they have the best HC in the entire league.

I said some teams are better than others AT DRAFTING, and it appears we aren't very good at drafting of late, and the last 5 years of mostly failure sure point that out, especially compared with our rival.

Ooops...

Danno · 02-20-2013, 03:01 PM

Originally Posted by papz

I'm fine with calculated crapshoot. There are quite a few draft picks we've made that I've really liked... but so far has not panned out. I think what we need to do better is coach and develop our players up to match their talents. It's also hard to predict how a young man re-acts to newfound fame and fortune... which in turn, can affect their play on the field too.

Basically what I'm saying is that we need to do a better job minimizing our calulated crapshoot with better coaching and developing. They all have talent if not they wouldn't be considered... we need to get more out of them.

It certainly wouldn't hurt to add to the scouting department though to also help minimize the risk factors.

I don't think I'm playing both sides of the fence here am I?

Well if you're of the opinion we need better scouts then obviously you think some teams are better than others at drafting, and better scouts equate to better drafting. So its obvious you agree that its not a crap shoot.

halloween 65 · 02-20-2013, 03:02 PM

Well crap shoot or crap sh!t I hope we hit a homerun on a DT this draft!!

saintfan · 02-20-2013, 03:05 PM

Originally Posted by Danno

Nice deflection. I never said the draft was the only way to succeed. The Pats are notorious for signing free-agents to accomplish their goals. And they have the best HC in the entire league.

I said some teams are better than others AT DRAFTING, and it appears we aren't very good at drafting of late, and the last 5 years of mostly failure sure point that out, especially compared with our rival.

Ooops...

Deflection? It's a fact, and not directed at you but at the person who posted it. I said the same thing several posts above. The numbers don't lie Danno.

And FWIW I agree with you that some teams are better than others. We disagree it seems because I assert that even though some are better than others this doesn't change the fact that it's still a gamble. It is. Every pick is a risk because NOBODY can successfully translate college performance to pro performance. That's why they measure everything - even stupid stuff, because they're trying to make an extremely precise thing from something that cannot be made so.

I'm sorry dude. That's just the way it is.

iWho_Dat · 02-20-2013, 03:18 PM

Originally Posted by dizzle88

Obviously none of us know what its like in the draft rooms but there are some serious questions with our recent drafting skills

Patrick Robinson - 1st round when he wasn't even the best CB on his team
Usama young - 2nd round WTF!!
Taylor melhaff - off the team after half a season
Sed Ellis - What a joke
Chip Vaughan and Stanley Arnoux - beasts in college and never even made it on the field here
Al Woods - Cut in preseason for lack of work ethic

Something needs to change with our draft strategy, cuz it aint working

Yeah your exactly right!! All the rookies we draft hicks, Tez, and even Gallett although he's not a rookie anymore have all proven they could play and play very well. But we still go with will smith, Sed Ellis Vilma and Shanle??? Are u kidding me??? Cam Jordan is the only defensive player I've been impressed with in the past few defensive picks. But Tez, Gallett and hicks I believe are ready to play. Let us draft Mingo or D Jordan. And we're set. On the front 7 IMO given will smith Ellis Vilma and Shanle don't see the field.

saintfan · 02-20-2013, 03:20 PM

Oh and by the way, guess who drafted all these guys:

Art Monk, Joe Jacoby, Mark May, Russ Grimm, Dexter Manley, Charlie Brown, Darrell Green, Charles Mann, and Gary Clark.

The same guy who drafted this guy:

Oh yeah - crap shoot. An exact science it surely ain't.

02-20-2013, 02:47 PM	#41
Danno Truth Addict Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Spanish Fort, AL (via NO and B/R) Posts: 24,713	Re: Are Loomis /Payton as good as their draft reputation? Originally Posted by AsylumGuido I don't know. Atlanta appears to have just as many misses as we have since 2006. Are you kidding? Look at their successes... 1 6 Julio Jones WR Alabama 3 91 Akeem Dent LB Georgia 5 145 Jacquizz Rodgers RB Oregon State 6 192 Matt Bosher P Miami (Fla.)7 210 Andrew Jackson G Fresno State 7 230 Cliff Matthews DE South Carolina 2010 - Atlanta Falcons RD SEL # PLAYER POSITION SCHOOL 1 19 Sean Weatherspoon OLB Missouri 3 83 Corey Peters DT Kentucky 3 98 Mike Johnson G Alabama 4 117 Joe Hawley C Nevada-Las Vegas 5 135 Dominique Franks DB Oklahoma 5 165 Kerry Meier WR Kansas 6 171 Shann Schillinger DB Montana 2009 - Atlanta Falcons RD SEL # PLAYER POSITION SCHOOL 1 24 Peria Jerry DT Mississippi 2 55 William Moore DB Missouri 3 90 Chris Owens DB San Jose State 4 125 Lawrence Sidbury DE Richmond 5 138 William Middleton DB Furman 5 156 Garrett Reynolds T North Carolina 6 176 Spencer Adkins LB Miami (Fla.) 7 210 Vance Walker DT Georgia Tech 2008 - Atlanta Falcons RD SEL # PLAYER POSITION SCHOOL 1 3 Matt Ryan QB Boston College 1 21 Sam Baker T USC 2 37 Curtis Lofton MLB Oklahoma 3 68 Chevis Jackson CB Louisiana State 3 84 Harry Douglas WR Louisville 3 98 Thomas DeCoud FS California 5 138 Robert James MLB Arizona State 5 154 Kroy Biermann DE Montana 6 172 Thomas Brown RB Georgia 7 212 Wilrey Fontenot CB Arizona 7 232 Keith Zinger TE Louisiana State 2007 - Atlanta Falcons RD SEL # PLAYER POSITION SCHOOL 1 8 Jamaal Anderson DE Arkansas 2 39 Justin Blalock G Texas 2 41 Chris Houston CB Arkansas 3 75 Laurent Robinson WR Illinois State 4 109 Stephen Nicholas LB South Florida 4 133 Martrez Milner TE Georgia 6 185 Trey Lewis DT Washburn 6 194 David Irons CB Auburn 6 198 Doug Datish C Ohio State 6 203 Daren Stone DB Maine 7 244 Jason Snelling RB Virginia Our top 20 picks wouldn't come close to their top 20 picks.

02-20-2013, 02:53 PM	#42
saintfan Donated Plasma Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: San Francisco, CA Posts: 18,556 Blog Entries: 5	Re: Are Loomis /Payton as good as their draft reputation? Originally Posted by RaginCajun83 And who ever thinks that the draft is a crap shoot needs to get their head examined. There's a reason why some teams pick in the top 5-10 year after year, they can't scout and either reach or miss on players that were "sure" things The reason some teams pick top 5-10 has to do with many things. Anyone who thinks the draft is the final culprit isn't paying attention. See my post above. The Patriots didn't draft extremely well from 2004-2008 and yet they won the most games in that span. Ooops...
	Last edited by saintfan; 02-20-2013 at 02:57 PM..

02-20-2013, 02:55 PM	#43
papz Problem? Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: New Orleans Posts: 11,737	Re: Are Loomis /Payton as good as their draft reputation? I'm fine with calculated crapshoot. There are quite a few draft picks we've made that I've really liked... but so far has not panned out. I think what we need to do better is coach and develop our players up to match their talents. It's also hard to predict how a young man re-acts to newfound fame and fortune... which in turn, can affect their play on the field too. Basically what I'm saying is that we need to do a better job minimizing our calulated crapshoot with better coaching and developing. They all have talent if not they wouldn't be considered... we need to get more out of them. It certainly wouldn't hurt to add to the scouting department though to also help minimize the risk factors. I don't think I'm playing both sides of the fence here am I?
	Everyone is entitled to be stupid, but some abuse the privilege. All little common sense goes a long way. Last edited by papz; 02-20-2013 at 02:57 PM..

02-20-2013, 02:57 PM	#44
saintfan Donated Plasma Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: San Francisco, CA Posts: 18,556 Blog Entries: 5	Re: Are Loomis /Payton as good as their draft reputation? One of the better teams at drafting drafted one of if not the biggest busts in the history of the draft. It happens every year. The numbers lean so heavily in favor of 'gamble' it's insane. It's not even debatable really.

02-20-2013, 02:58 PM	#45
Danno Truth Addict Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Spanish Fort, AL (via NO and B/R) Posts: 24,713	Re: Are Loomis /Payton as good as their draft reputation? Originally Posted by saintfan The reason some teams pick top 5-10 has to do with many things. Anyone who thinks the draft is the final culprit isn't paying attention. See my post below. The Patriots didn't draft extremely well from 2004-2008 and yet they won the most games in that span. Ooops... Nice deflection. I never said the draft was the only way to succeed. The Pats are notorious for signing free-agents to accomplish their goals. And they have the best HC in the entire league. I said some teams are better than others AT DRAFTING, and it appears we aren't very good at drafting of late, and the last 5 years of mostly failure sure point that out, especially compared with our rival. Ooops...

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02-20-2013, 03:01 PM	#46
Danno Truth Addict Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Spanish Fort, AL (via NO and B/R) Posts: 24,713	Re: Are Loomis /Payton as good as their draft reputation? Originally Posted by papz I'm fine with calculated crapshoot. There are quite a few draft picks we've made that I've really liked... but so far has not panned out. I think what we need to do better is coach and develop our players up to match their talents. It's also hard to predict how a young man re-acts to newfound fame and fortune... which in turn, can affect their play on the field too. Basically what I'm saying is that we need to do a better job minimizing our calulated crapshoot with better coaching and developing. They all have talent if not they wouldn't be considered... we need to get more out of them. It certainly wouldn't hurt to add to the scouting department though to also help minimize the risk factors. I don't think I'm playing both sides of the fence here am I? Well if you're of the opinion we need better scouts then obviously you think some teams are better than others at drafting, and better scouts equate to better drafting. So its obvious you agree that its not a crap shoot.

02-20-2013, 03:02 PM	#47
halloween 65 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Grand Haven, Michigan by way of a little Mississippi River town in Louisiana Posts: 5,893	Re: Are Loomis /Payton as good as their draft reputation? Well crap shoot or crap sh!t I hope we hit a homerun on a DT this draft!! K Major likes this.

02-20-2013, 03:05 PM	#48
saintfan Donated Plasma Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: San Francisco, CA Posts: 18,556 Blog Entries: 5	Re: Are Loomis /Payton as good as their draft reputation? Originally Posted by Danno Nice deflection. I never said the draft was the only way to succeed. The Pats are notorious for signing free-agents to accomplish their goals. And they have the best HC in the entire league. I said some teams are better than others AT DRAFTING, and it appears we aren't very good at drafting of late, and the last 5 years of mostly failure sure point that out, especially compared with our rival. Ooops... Deflection? It's a fact, and not directed at you but at the person who posted it. I said the same thing several posts above. The numbers don't lie Danno. And FWIW I agree with you that some teams are better than others. We disagree it seems because I assert that even though some are better than others this doesn't change the fact that it's still a gamble. It is. Every pick is a risk because NOBODY can successfully translate college performance to pro performance. That's why they measure everything - even stupid stuff, because they're trying to make an extremely precise thing from something that cannot be made so. I'm sorry dude. That's just the way it is.
	C'mon Man...

02-20-2013, 03:18 PM	#49
iWho_Dat 100th Post Join Date: Jul 2012 Posts: 247	Re: Are Loomis /Payton as good as their draft reputation? Originally Posted by dizzle88 Obviously none of us know what its like in the draft rooms but there are some serious questions with our recent drafting skills Patrick Robinson - 1st round when he wasn't even the best CB on his team Usama young - 2nd round WTF!! Taylor melhaff - off the team after half a season Sed Ellis - What a joke Chip Vaughan and Stanley Arnoux - beasts in college and never even made it on the field here Al Woods - Cut in preseason for lack of work ethic Something needs to change with our draft strategy, cuz it aint working Yeah your exactly right!! All the rookies we draft hicks, Tez, and even Gallett although he's not a rookie anymore have all proven they could play and play very well. But we still go with will smith, Sed Ellis Vilma and Shanle??? Are u kidding me??? Cam Jordan is the only defensive player I've been impressed with in the past few defensive picks. But Tez, Gallett and hicks I believe are ready to play. Let us draft Mingo or D Jordan. And we're set. On the front 7 IMO given will smith Ellis Vilma and Shanle don't see the field.
iWho_Dat 100th Post Join Date: Jul 2012 Posts: 247

02-20-2013, 03:20 PM	#50
saintfan Donated Plasma Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: San Francisco, CA Posts: 18,556 Blog Entries: 5	Re: Are Loomis /Payton as good as their draft reputation? Oh and by the way, guess who drafted all these guys: Art Monk, Joe Jacoby, Mark May, Russ Grimm, Dexter Manley, Charlie Brown, Darrell Green, Charles Mann, and Gary Clark. The same guy who drafted this guy: Oh yeah - crap shoot. An exact science it surely ain't.

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