Re: Are we looking at anyone???
 

I'll take a drew brees led team with a broke defense than a mark sanchez lead team with a talented defense. WE ARE BROKE PEOPLE, we have to trust our F.O.

Re: Are we looking at anyone???
 

I didn't list any UDFA's did I?

And again my point, that apparently you totally missed twice now, was that claiming that we NEVER score was absurd.

What exactly do you not understand about the word NEVER?

Re: Are we looking at anyone???
 

I just hate seeing us sitting here when the Falcons are signing Jackson and SF is also making some awesome improvements. I said to pay Brees this time last year. I see how much of a stupid thought that was, now. I fear we closed our window when we gave him that fat contract. Everyone is getting better but us, and we have more holes to fill than anyone.

Re: Are we looking at anyone???
 

Perhaps if you weren't too busy being an over confident, self proclaimed "truth addict", you could have been able to read the first line of my first reply. It said "I agree that we've had a few good signings". I know we've done some good things, and that is precisely why I made a point of agreeing with you there. So ummm, no. I did not miss your point. But thanks anyway for the annoying huge letters.

However, you then you proceeded to give a very unimpressive list of players, with the couple exceptions. And in my opinion, it watered down your attempt to push your argument.

Since you asked me if you listed any UDFA's, the short answer is yes. Here they are:

Isa Abdul Quddus- He was originally signed by the Saints an undrafted free agent.

Lance Moore- He was initially signed by the Browns as an undrafted free agent, then subsequently released and signed by the Saints, was released later on, and then re-signed. Don't call this a genius move, when they stole this guy and almost let him walk away.

Steve Gleason- Similar to Moore, he was signed as an UDFA -by the Colts in this case- released shortly thereafter, and signed by the Saints.

So yes, as I said, you mentioned a lot of either crappy players, average players, or UDFA's who should not be counted when discussing free agency. You're not fighting a pack of wolves to sign a rookie free agent, such as you do with proven veterans.

Also, many of the other players you listed were undrafted free agents originally, but we signed those players years after, so they do classify as veteran free agents, but we signed those guys of the scrapheap. De La Peunta bounced around practice squads for 4 years until he got here. That's not the same as going into the free agent market and identifying a guy who you think can make you better. It's just plain luck for the Saints, and hard work by De La Peunta.

Re: Are we looking at anyone???
 

Ladies, can we get past defamation? Seriously, it really takes away from the discussion. Focus on the upcoming season.

The OP was crystal clear on his words. The subjective word in this quote is "Score"
"We never really score in free agency, it's always really frustrating to monitor"


IMHO to score in free agency for the Saints is not getting someone the rest of the league thinks is great. For the Saints to score huge in FA all re need to do is replace someone who had 5 passes defended with someone that will have 20 passes defended. Or replace someone with 3 sacks with someone that gets 15 sacks...

THOSE my friends are scores for us.

However if you are looking for a Hugemongous SCORE in FA, I would say Drew Brees has been left off of the list and is one of the biggest FA accusations in recent history.

Did someone actually say Greer/Roby were good for us but we could survive with out Lance "CLUTCH"Moore? Sorry, if you are going to grade our most clutch receiver that hard than Greer does not get a good grade.

Re: Are we looking at anyone???
 

Who is defaming anyone? The discussion is what it is. Nothing is taking away from it. And your definition of a score is what I'm talking about. I don't care what the rest of the league thinks of a guy. When I think of a significant free agent signing, I think of someone who makes his position markedly better.

Where I have a problem with certain people's take on it, is when they just name everyone on the team who wasn't originally drafted by the Saints, and make it seem as though they're all brilliant acquisitions. It's not hard to understand the point I'm making. Also, Drew Brees was not left off of anyone's list. He is among those I would consider to have been a "score". No freaking duh, of course he was... Thanks for the insight.

The discussion is about players. Not someone's avatar area or signature block.

You are welcome to start a thread about that in the everything else area if you like.

Re: Are we looking at anyone???
 

I don't consider signing players someone else drafted as one of our UDFA's.

But you are right. IAQ is the only one I listed that we signed as an UDFA. All the rest we signed as free-agent.

If you're claiming that "scoring in free agency" is the equivalent of a Drew Brees signing than I agree with you. We never score, and 31 other teams never score either.

Do you consider Keenan Lewis a score? I do.

Re: Are we looking at anyone???
 

for clarity...a score = drew brees, sproles, lofton, greer.
the rest of the list...not scores...those are signings. Chris reis is not a score.

and to the comment about Lance Moore, as drew brees goes so does lance moore. moore is only good when playing for a good qb. he doesnt create seperation that often but he catches everything. brees throws him open and it works out great because he catches everything. pair moore with the likes of a matt ryan or alex smith and he rides pine

Keenan lewis appears to be a score.

Re: Are we looking at anyone???
 

Now your getting it Danno...

Dont you feel better about this signing than when they signed Chris Reis or Peirson Preilou?

Re: Are we looking at anyone???
 

Huh?

I got it from the very start Ron.;)

Re: Are we looking at anyone???
 

Moore is not a separation receiver, he is a box receiver.... So is Graham, except Graham uses his size advantage, and Moore uses his agility. In my world, a receiver that catches EVERYTHING is a score.

Anquan Boldn is another box receiver.. No separation... Doesn't make him bad.

Separation does not define a good receiver, catches and 3rd down conversions does..

Re: Are we looking at anyone???
 

Yes it is directed to you. There are plenty of players on there that played ALOT. They went after top tier players and some panned out and some did not. A large amount of these players started and helped lead the Saints to its only Super bowl.

Re: Are we looking at anyone???
 

Hey Oak? I don't need your permission to speak my mind, pal. If somebody is going to claim that I "missed the point twice" when I very clearly explained myself the first time around, then that person can expect some sarcasm from me. That is not remotely what I could have said, if my intentions were to "defame" that person. Conversely, the insinuation that I missed the point twice was closer to fitting your description, than anything I said in my reply.

Re: Are we looking at anyone???
 

No. Read what I said again. Those weren't draft picks, they were undrafted free agents who other teams signed for a short period of time and released, where the Saints then signed them. Those are absolutely, by any definition, UDFA's.

And again, for the third time now, I agree that we've had some good signings, and I was not the one who said we NEVER score in free agency. I very simply did not agree with the list of players you compiled as being a significant group. You lumped them all together as if they were somehow comparable. Drew Brees, Darren Sproles, Darren Sharper (though we mostly got lucky with that one), Curtis Lofton, and, for a couple seasons anyway, Jabari Greer were all home runs in my book.

The other guys are just interchangeable parts that every team has some version of. I'm not disrespecting those guys, but when I read things like "Saints sign Chris Chamberlain", I don't think to my self... 'YES! That's what I'm talking about!". I understand that a guy like that has a role to play, and I appreciate it. But it's not the type of move that solves a major problem.

I sincerely hope we can stop arguing about whether or not we've ever scored on the market, as I've made it clear I think we have before. As for Lewis? Right now he's just a sign. I don't know much about him, and he is getting the type of reviews I've heard from other players we've brought in, in the past. I'll let you know after a few games next year.

Re: Are we looking at anyone???
 

So what is a team that "scores" in free agency, to the satisfaction of those people who think we are doing a poor job and never "score" enough in free agency. Who should the Saints emulate. What team has "scored" bigger free agent acquisitions, consistently nabbing superstars, with fewer or no duds, than the Saints, and I would like to compare what is their winning record over the same time span. If the Saints are doing such a bad job, including landing Brees, then who out there is superior to the Saints at "scoring" free agents, over the same time span, and what is their team's W/L record.

Re: Are we looking at anyone???
 

Whats funny is all this bickering back and forth and NONE of you have any control over it

Re: Are we looking at anyone???
 

I most certainly do have control over the bickering... See. I just drug you into it.

:givemebeer:

Re: Are we looking at anyone???
 

I, for one, don't think we've been bad in free agency. But to be fair, we've won with mostly the same core of players on offense for the past several years. Sproles and Grubbs were easily the biggest signs since the superbowl year (though we had to lose Nicks to get Grubbs). Defensive personnel is always changing, but has never been a strength, save for the '09 season when we at least forced a lot of turnovers. A lot of loaded contracts are starting to pile up, and it's what has caused this scramble to create cap space. So this offseason will be Loomis' greatest test. I like the signing of Lewis, in principle. Now we just have to see if he lives up to expectations.

I give a lot of the credit to the scout department, finding these late round gems, and even a few UDFA's, the Brees signing was obviously the biggest move, and Sean Payton's system. I'm just not one of these "Mickey is a genius" kind of people. I remember a lot of bad years with Loomis, before Payton got here. Bringing in Drew and Sean are his crowning achievements, and I give him a pat on the back for that.

Re: Are we looking at anyone???
 

I think we did ok with the limited salary cap