What exactly are we complaining about?

insidejob · 03-14-2013, 05:39 PM

Mack is still an unsigned UFA. Corey White is missing from your list of corners though so it evens out. All we NEED is some pass rush and a left tackle. I don't see us grabbing a starting left tackle in the first round draft at 15 so we have to bring in a FA in case Brown can't hack it.

hagan714 · 03-14-2013, 05:49 PM

Originally Posted by rezburna

And I don't see why people want a NT. Bunkley is meant to be a 3-4 tackle. That's the system he thrived in.

In his contract year. that worries me. we need a true NT to groom while we live out The Bunks contract.

DE is another area of concern and it need to addressed more 34 DE are needed

ILB and OLB? Big gambles going on in this group. more 34 needed

CB more is needed

S is probably the one area i think the saints have a good deep core and a chance to get a starter out of. Once again more 34 needed

ok more 34 needed is my theme.

But I have a plan

DO IT OVER A 3 TO 4 YEAR TIME FRAME

jeanpierre · 03-14-2013, 05:56 PM

Originally Posted by papz

If we get this deal with Lewis done, besides a LT, do we really have a glaring need somewhere?

I can see the disappointment not being able to spend a ton of money to upgrade everywhere, but a lot of the positions are already set.

DL - Jordan, Bunkley, Hicks, Smith, Johnson
LB - Galette, Hawthorne, Lofton, Vilma, Wilson
CB - Greer, Lewis, Robinson, Mack, Johnson
S - Harper, Jenkins, Quddus, Bush

We could certainly use a little more depth, and we could probably use an upgrade at safety, but we're not in bad shape. Last year the scheme didn't fit... so we've made a change that looks like it fits our personnel better. We also have 5 draft picks to use to shore up some of our issues. We don't need that much help.

Free agency is going to be a little bland for us. Buck'er up... it's going to be alright.

Good Point, we're better off than we realize, however the defense must be upgraded...

I don't agree with the assessment that last year's debacle should be laid at the feet of the Bounty Beatdown or Spagnuolo's One Year Tour because, point of fact - at best, we have mediocre talent on defense...

But there are Priorities/Needs this team must address:

(01) Left Tackle (Starter) Bushrod signed with Bears; ZStrief is a plodder and that will get Brees killed; Charlie Brown is still whiffing at his opportunities and there's no Lucy to blame for possum' him...

(02) Quarterback (Backup) With all we have tied up in payroll after Brees' contract, do you really want to have just one quarterback on the roster?

(03) Defensive End (Starter) Will Smith has been drastically overpaid his last two contracts and no matter how much you pay merde, it is still merde; he's undersized anyways to play the DE in the 3-4; Now, can Akiem Hicks slide to the end? I'm not sure whether he's a starting end or...

(03) Nose Tackle (Rotational) Bunkley has rec'd very good ratings as the NT in a 3-4, but you can't burn him out and so we've got to have a rotation there; now if Hicks can evolve into a NT, then we may have something...

(04) Tight End (Backup/Two TE Sets) There's Jimmy and no one else; and to be perfectly honest, I'd like to get someone in there to spell Jimmy so he's stats won't give his lawyer as much leverage in his next contract negotiations...

rezburna · 03-14-2013, 05:59 PM

Originally Posted by papz

I'm not turning anything around. You were spewing garbage and I'm just trying to clean it up.

First you call him slow, not you're back tracking saying he has decent speed. You're embarassing yourself. He moved to corner, but it's certainly not because of his speed. Plenty of corners in the league run a 4.5. Fact.

Yes, Vincent Jackson runs a 4.46. He just had the best season of his career and in his prime. Can you verify that he's slowed down at all? He's always been a deep threat and has shown no signs of not being able to get behind receivers.

Malcolm Jenkins is not slow period. You can continue to make up stuff, but that doesn't change anything. He's not slow. You would make Al Davis proud.

Decent speed isn't fast. He's slow relative to the position he was drafted to play. I'm not backtracking on anything. You're reading into it the way you want to. I can't verify he's slowed just like you can't verify he's still running that. So don't try me. And I also haven't made anything up. All the experts questioned his ability to play corner because of his speed. A 4.5 is fast as hell for a linebacker or lineman. But he doesn't play that...

Leighton B · 03-14-2013, 06:25 PM

EXACTLY HARPER IS TOO SLOW FOR LINEBACKERUCH LESS SAFETY
And M. Jenkins is better at strong safety and trade Harper or cut him he's garbage in coverage and that's what Ryan's D needs since they have OLB to blitz
Come On I'm more worried about safety than LT cause they'll draft T. Armstead

Leighton B · 03-14-2013, 06:26 PM

I MEANT HARPER IS TOO SLOW FOR LINEBACKER MUCH LESS SAFETY

rezburna · 03-14-2013, 06:31 PM

Originally Posted by Leighton B

EXACTLY HARPER IS TOO SLOW FOR LINEBACKERUCH LESS SAFETY
And M. Jenkins is better at strong safety and trade Harper or cut him he's garbage in coverage and that's what Ryan's D needs since they have OLB to blitz
Come On I'm more worried about safety than LT cause they'll draft T. Armstead

If they moved Jenkins to SS like you say, then I'll think about calling him fast.

papz · 03-14-2013, 07:20 PM

Originally Posted by rezburna

Decent speed isn't fast. He's slow relative to the position he was drafted to play. I'm not backtracking on anything. You're reading into it the way you want to. I can't verify he's slowed just like you can't verify he's still running that. So don't try me. And I also haven't made anything up. All the experts questioned his ability to play corner because of his speed. A 4.5 is fast as hell for a linebacker or lineman. But he doesn't play that...

You are terrible. And decent speed isn't slow... which his number indicates he's more than average. Let's pretend and kid ourselves he's "slow" for a cornerback... you do realize I have him categorized as a safety right? You saying a 4.51 safety is slow? Are you saying a 4.51 free safety isn't fast?

Stop the madness.

Darrell Green ran sub 4.4 into his mid 30s. Now unless you have some proof Vincent Jackson all 30 and in great shape suddenly lost some speed, 4.46 is the only number there is to go by.

But let's play your little game. What do you think Champ Bailey runs right now? He should probably move to safety 5 years ago... because he's slow.

Save face... move on.

One more thing, can you tell one of the best cornerbacks in the league right now, Richard Sherman(4.54), that he's too slow for the position. 4.63 Brandon Browner too. Oh wait, tell Brandon Flowers(4.55) in KC the same. I think they're all playing the wrong position. Send an application to the Raiders front office for a scouting job dude.

lumm0x · 03-14-2013, 07:30 PM

The least of Malcolm's problems is his speed. He has proven time and again he can run down players. His has more issue getting looked away from where he will need to be and he has really struggled being opportunistic with the ball in the air. He may be better suited as a SS as his coverage skills are better than Harper in man cover, he supports the run decently and does have a nose for dislodging the ball. He hasn't proven himself as adept a pass rusher as Harper but it could only be lack of opportunity.

Frankly, if we were somehow able to upgrade FS with a better ballhawk, I could see Jenkins at SS and Harper re-signed for cheaper as both depth as well as in big nickel schemes or even as a flat out speed mismatch double edge rush. Kind of a hybrid safety position in lieu of a OLB in passing downs.

rezburna · 03-14-2013, 07:49 PM

Originally Posted by papz

You are terrible. And decent speed isn't slow... which his number indicates he's more than average. Let's pretend and kid ourselves he's "slow" for a cornerback... you do realize I have him categorized as a safety right? You saying a 4.51 safety is slow? Are you saying a 4.51 free safety isn't fast?

Stop the madness.

Darrell Green ran sub 4.4 into his mid 30s. Now unless you have some proof Vincent Jackson all 30 and in great shape suddenly lost some speed, 4.46 is the only number there is to go by.

But let's play your little game. What do you think Champ Bailey runs right now? He should probably move to safety 5 years ago... because he's slow.

Save face... move on.

Actually, Champ Bailey has been talking about moving to FS for years for that very reason. Just like Charles Woodson. Just like Rod Woodson. Just like Deion Sanders. Darrell Green was a freak of nature as far as speed goes. You want to compare Vincent Jackson to him? GTFOH.

When Jenkins came out they compared him to Antrel Rolle. Another tremendous college corner back who most likely wouldn't have the speed to play corner in the NFL. You know what he ran? A 4.50. Rolle got moved to FS, and so has Jenkins. If he didn't get moved because of his speed why did he get moved in the 1st place? 4.51 is decent for a FS. It damn sure it ain't fast, and it's definitely slow for a corner. The only reason he was available for us to pick him at 14 that year is because he ran such a slow 40 time. Are you kidding me bro? The 4.43 that Earl Thomas ran is fast. The 4.40 Eric Berry ran is fast. The 4.33 Troy Polamalu ran is fast.

If he was out there dominating like a Darren Sharper nobody would have to bring up his slow 40 time. If you think he's fast, he definitely doesn't play like it. He might need to hire you to remind him and stroke his ego.

So hey! He's a fast safety and corner! But before I finally end this, let's talk about the elite cornerbacks in the NFL.

Darrelle Revis - 4.38
Johnathan Joseph - 4.31
Patrick Peterson - 4.34
Richard Sherman - 4.54 (While standing 6'3" 195 lbs. It definitely shows when he goes up against faster; quicker receivers. He's very susceptible to the double move. Why? He's a slow, physical corner. Similar to what the scouts said about Jenkins. But he has better ball skills. He's a playmaker. He made up for his lack of speed.)
Cortland Finnegan - 4.34
Nnamdi Asomugha - 4.45 (6'2" 210 lbs)
Aqib Talib - 4.44
Carlos Rodgers - 4.44
Antonio Cromartie - 4.44

The list goes on. He's a slow corner.

03-14-2013, 05:39 PM	#21
insidejob Rookie Join Date: Aug 2012 Posts: 10	Mack is still an unsigned UFA. Corey White is missing from your list of corners though so it evens out. All we NEED is some pass rush and a left tackle. I don't see us grabbing a starting left tackle in the first round draft at 15 so we have to bring in a FA in case Brown can't hack it.
insidejob Rookie Join Date: Aug 2012 Posts: 10

03-14-2013, 05:49 PM	#22
hagan714 LB Mentallity Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 15,870 Blog Entries: 68	Re: What exactly are we complaining about? Originally Posted by rezburna And I don't see why people want a NT. Bunkley is meant to be a 3-4 tackle. That's the system he thrived in. In his contract year. that worries me. we need a true NT to groom while we live out The Bunks contract. DE is another area of concern and it need to addressed more 34 DE are needed ILB and OLB? Big gambles going on in this group. more 34 needed CB more is needed S is probably the one area i think the saints have a good deep core and a chance to get a starter out of. Once again more 34 needed ok more 34 needed is my theme. But I have a plan DO IT OVER A 3 TO 4 YEAR TIME FRAME
	"We may have lost the game, but you'll be hurting tomorrow." Doug Atkins

03-14-2013, 05:56 PM	#23
jeanpierre Site Donor 2018 Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Thibodaux Posts: 43,543 Blog Entries: 39	Re: What exactly are we complaining about? Originally Posted by papz If we get this deal with Lewis done, besides a LT, do we really have a glaring need somewhere? I can see the disappointment not being able to spend a ton of money to upgrade everywhere, but a lot of the positions are already set. DL - Jordan, Bunkley, Hicks, Smith, Johnson LB - Galette, Hawthorne, Lofton, Vilma, Wilson CB - Greer, Lewis, Robinson, Mack, Johnson S - Harper, Jenkins, Quddus, Bush We could certainly use a little more depth, and we could probably use an upgrade at safety, but we're not in bad shape. Last year the scheme didn't fit... so we've made a change that looks like it fits our personnel better. We also have 5 draft picks to use to shore up some of our issues. We don't need that much help. Free agency is going to be a little bland for us. Buck'er up... it's going to be alright. Good Point, we're better off than we realize, however the defense must be upgraded... I don't agree with the assessment that last year's debacle should be laid at the feet of the Bounty Beatdown or Spagnuolo's One Year Tour because, point of fact - at best, we have mediocre talent on defense... But there are Priorities/Needs this team must address: (01) Left Tackle (Starter) Bushrod signed with Bears; ZStrief is a plodder and that will get Brees killed; Charlie Brown is still whiffing at his opportunities and there's no Lucy to blame for possum' him... (02) Quarterback (Backup) With all we have tied up in payroll after Brees' contract, do you really want to have just one quarterback on the roster? (03) Defensive End (Starter) Will Smith has been drastically overpaid his last two contracts and no matter how much you pay merde, it is still merde; he's undersized anyways to play the DE in the 3-4; Now, can Akiem Hicks slide to the end? I'm not sure whether he's a starting end or... (03) Nose Tackle (Rotational) Bunkley has rec'd very good ratings as the NT in a 3-4, but you can't burn him out and so we've got to have a rotation there; now if Hicks can evolve into a NT, then we may have something... (04) Tight End (Backup/Two TE Sets) There's Jimmy and no one else; and to be perfectly honest, I'd like to get someone in there to spell Jimmy so he's stats won't give his lawyer as much leverage in his next contract negotiations...
	It's not that my way is the right way, I just make the right way my way...

03-14-2013, 05:59 PM	#24
rezburna 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Kenner, LA Posts: 7,903	Re: What exactly are we complaining about? Originally Posted by papz I'm not turning anything around. You were spewing garbage and I'm just trying to clean it up. First you call him slow, not you're back tracking saying he has decent speed. You're embarassing yourself. He moved to corner, but it's certainly not because of his speed. Plenty of corners in the league run a 4.5. Fact. Yes, Vincent Jackson runs a 4.46. He just had the best season of his career and in his prime. Can you verify that he's slowed down at all? He's always been a deep threat and has shown no signs of not being able to get behind receivers. Malcolm Jenkins is not slow period. You can continue to make up stuff, but that doesn't change anything. He's not slow. You would make Al Davis proud. Decent speed isn't fast. He's slow relative to the position he was drafted to play. I'm not backtracking on anything. You're reading into it the way you want to. I can't verify he's slowed just like you can't verify he's still running that. So don't try me. And I also haven't made anything up. All the experts questioned his ability to play corner because of his speed. A 4.5 is fast as hell for a linebacker or lineman. But he doesn't play that...

03-14-2013, 06:25 PM	#25
Leighton B 100th Post Join Date: Feb 2013 Posts: 160	Re: What exactly are we complaining about? EXACTLY HARPER IS TOO SLOW FOR LINEBACKERUCH LESS SAFETY And M. Jenkins is better at strong safety and trade Harper or cut him he's garbage in coverage and that's what Ryan's D needs since they have OLB to blitz Come On I'm more worried about safety than LT cause they'll draft T. Armstead
Leighton B 100th Post Join Date: Feb 2013 Posts: 160

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03-14-2013, 06:26 PM	#26
Leighton B 100th Post Join Date: Feb 2013 Posts: 160	Re: What exactly are we complaining about? I MEANT HARPER IS TOO SLOW FOR LINEBACKER MUCH LESS SAFETY
Leighton B 100th Post Join Date: Feb 2013 Posts: 160

03-14-2013, 06:31 PM	#27
rezburna 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Kenner, LA Posts: 7,903	Re: What exactly are we complaining about? Originally Posted by Leighton B EXACTLY HARPER IS TOO SLOW FOR LINEBACKERUCH LESS SAFETY And M. Jenkins is better at strong safety and trade Harper or cut him he's garbage in coverage and that's what Ryan's D needs since they have OLB to blitz Come On I'm more worried about safety than LT cause they'll draft T. Armstead If they moved Jenkins to SS like you say, then I'll think about calling him fast.

03-14-2013, 07:20 PM	#28
papz Problem? Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: New Orleans Posts: 11,744	Re: What exactly are we complaining about? Originally Posted by rezburna Decent speed isn't fast. He's slow relative to the position he was drafted to play. I'm not backtracking on anything. You're reading into it the way you want to. I can't verify he's slowed just like you can't verify he's still running that. So don't try me. And I also haven't made anything up. All the experts questioned his ability to play corner because of his speed. A 4.5 is fast as hell for a linebacker or lineman. But he doesn't play that... You are terrible. And decent speed isn't slow... which his number indicates he's more than average. Let's pretend and kid ourselves he's "slow" for a cornerback... you do realize I have him categorized as a safety right? You saying a 4.51 safety is slow? Are you saying a 4.51 free safety isn't fast? Stop the madness. Darrell Green ran sub 4.4 into his mid 30s. Now unless you have some proof Vincent Jackson all 30 and in great shape suddenly lost some speed, 4.46 is the only number there is to go by. But let's play your little game. What do you think Champ Bailey runs right now? He should probably move to safety 5 years ago... because he's slow. Save face... move on. One more thing, can you tell one of the best cornerbacks in the league right now, Richard Sherman(4.54), that he's too slow for the position. 4.63 Brandon Browner too. Oh wait, tell Brandon Flowers(4.55) in KC the same. I think they're all playing the wrong position. Send an application to the Raiders front office for a scouting job dude.
	Everyone is entitled to be stupid, but some abuse the privilege. All little common sense goes a long way. Last edited by papz; 03-14-2013 at 07:26 PM..

03-14-2013, 07:30 PM	#29
lumm0x Resident antediluvian Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 2,026	Re: What exactly are we complaining about? The least of Malcolm's problems is his speed. He has proven time and again he can run down players. His has more issue getting looked away from where he will need to be and he has really struggled being opportunistic with the ball in the air. He may be better suited as a SS as his coverage skills are better than Harper in man cover, he supports the run decently and does have a nose for dislodging the ball. He hasn't proven himself as adept a pass rusher as Harper but it could only be lack of opportunity. Frankly, if we were somehow able to upgrade FS with a better ballhawk, I could see Jenkins at SS and Harper re-signed for cheaper as both depth as well as in big nickel schemes or even as a flat out speed mismatch double edge rush. Kind of a hybrid safety position in lieu of a OLB in passing downs. papz and jeanpierre like this.

03-14-2013, 07:49 PM	#30
rezburna 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Kenner, LA Posts: 7,903	Re: What exactly are we complaining about? Originally Posted by papz You are terrible. And decent speed isn't slow... which his number indicates he's more than average. Let's pretend and kid ourselves he's "slow" for a cornerback... you do realize I have him categorized as a safety right? You saying a 4.51 safety is slow? Are you saying a 4.51 free safety isn't fast? Stop the madness. Darrell Green ran sub 4.4 into his mid 30s. Now unless you have some proof Vincent Jackson all 30 and in great shape suddenly lost some speed, 4.46 is the only number there is to go by. But let's play your little game. What do you think Champ Bailey runs right now? He should probably move to safety 5 years ago... because he's slow. Save face... move on. Actually, Champ Bailey has been talking about moving to FS for years for that very reason. Just like Charles Woodson. Just like Rod Woodson. Just like Deion Sanders. Darrell Green was a freak of nature as far as speed goes. You want to compare Vincent Jackson to him? GTFOH. When Jenkins came out they compared him to Antrel Rolle. Another tremendous college corner back who most likely wouldn't have the speed to play corner in the NFL. You know what he ran? A 4.50. Rolle got moved to FS, and so has Jenkins. If he didn't get moved because of his speed why did he get moved in the 1st place? 4.51 is decent for a FS. It damn sure it ain't fast, and it's definitely slow for a corner. The only reason he was available for us to pick him at 14 that year is because he ran such a slow 40 time. Are you kidding me bro? The 4.43 that Earl Thomas ran is fast. The 4.40 Eric Berry ran is fast. The 4.33 Troy Polamalu ran is fast. If he was out there dominating like a Darren Sharper nobody would have to bring up his slow 40 time. If you think he's fast, he definitely doesn't play like it. He might need to hire you to remind him and stroke his ego. So hey! He's a fast safety and corner! But before I finally end this, let's talk about the elite cornerbacks in the NFL. Darrelle Revis - 4.38 Johnathan Joseph - 4.31 Patrick Peterson - 4.34 Richard Sherman - 4.54 (While standing 6'3" 195 lbs. It definitely shows when he goes up against faster; quicker receivers. He's very susceptible to the double move. Why? He's a slow, physical corner. Similar to what the scouts said about Jenkins. But he has better ball skills. He's a playmaker. He made up for his lack of speed.) Cortland Finnegan - 4.34 Nnamdi Asomugha - 4.45 (6'2" 210 lbs) Aqib Talib - 4.44 Carlos Rodgers - 4.44 Antonio Cromartie - 4.44 The list goes on. He's a slow corner.

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