Worst ever for Jenkins and Harper

Danno · 04-04-2013, 06:04 PM

Old news. When your front 7 grades out the worst in the NFL your safeties are gonna struggle.

So if you're gonna bash Harper and Jenkins, you have to bash Lofton, Vilma, Greer, Robinson, White, Wilson, Smith, Ellis, and Hawthorne too

Pretty much every player that got significant PT last year was turribul, just turribul.

Here are all the PFF grades recapped (its a PPV site so no linky and only a recap)
PFF rank by position of our defenders.

Defensive Ends out of 109
Jordan 66
Smith 108
Galette 19
Wilson 33

DT out of 148
Bunkley 29
Ellis 118
Akiem Hicks 29
Johnson 42

Outside Linebackers Out of 109
Vilma 100
Hawthorne 102
Casillas 59
Wilson 81
Herring 87
Shanle 95

Inside linebackers out of 112
Lofton 104
Wilson (1 snap) 43

CB's out of 217
Greer 113
Robinson 193
Mack 72
White 203
Patrick 205
Murphy 70

Safeties out of 168
Harper 167
Jenkins 168
Bush 22
Abdul- Quddus 57

RaginCajun83 · 04-04-2013, 06:06 PM

Oh I'm still p****d at Loomis for keeping Smith around, I don't care how cheap this year

Utah_Saint · 04-04-2013, 06:15 PM

I wonder if PFF has ever graded out two starters at any one position, from the same team, as the worst in the NFL before Jenkins and Harper.

Danno · 04-04-2013, 06:19 PM

Originally Posted by Utah_Saint

I wonder if PFF has ever graded out two starters at any one position, from the same team, as the worst in the NFL before Jenkins and Harper.

I doubt it. There never been a defense this bad from front to back in recent years.

And in order for a unit to be that awful, the rest of the defense has to pitch in.

When I see so many players grading near dead last who were good players in previous years it just confirms to me that it was 90% Spags and his square peg round hole schemes.

TheOak · 04-04-2013, 06:21 PM

The first person remembered is the last one that failed.

Safety's are the last ones to miss a tackle, but no where near the first.

Danno · 04-04-2013, 06:25 PM

Originally Posted by TheOak

Safety's are the last ones to miss a tackle, but no where near the first.

Well said.

Seer1 · 04-04-2013, 06:28 PM

I'm not really out to insult anyone, but I'm really curious as to the criterion used in this "grading" process. As OAK has already pointed out, there are some glaring deficiencies in this rating system.

It's easy to find sports hacks out there that write something a posters agree with. It's easy to accept something as fact if that opinion is the same as the poster's. As I look at the credentials of the authors of the referenced articles, I see very little in the way of actual upper level coaching and playing experience. "Fan" seems to be at the top of the resumes and as such, that makes OAK and me equal to the authors of the referenced articles in our level of expertise.

So again I ask, how do Jenkins and Harper grade out with the real experts -our current coaches?

Danno · 04-04-2013, 06:33 PM

Originally Posted by Seer1

I'm not really out to insult anyone, but I'm really curious as to the criterion used in this "grading" process. As OAK has already pointed out, there are some glaring deficiencies in this rating system.

It's easy to find sports hacks out there that write something a posters agree with. It's easy to accept something as fact if that opinion is the same as the poster's. As I look at the credentials of the authors of the referenced articles, I see very little in the way of actual upper level coaching and playing experience. "Fan" seems to be at the top of the resumes and as such, that makes OAK and me equal to the authors of the referenced articles in our level of expertise.

So again I ask, how do Jenkins and Harper grade out with the real experts -our current coaches?

Apparently better than our CB's.

And as others have pointed out, in a zone heavy scheme how does a grader know who's fault a completion is when its between the LB and Safety or the CB and Safety?

Does Bush get credit for a pick that was a horrible throw when he was 10 yards away from the intended WR? Or does that count against him as it should?

ClintSaints · 04-04-2013, 07:26 PM

Our defense will go way up this season. I predict we will finish somewhere in the 13th to 19th range, which isn't bad considering if we had that type of defense last year, we could have easily gone 10-6 or even 11-5 or better. The main difference could be that players simply love working with Rob Ryan and they obviously didn't enjoy working for Steve Spagnuolo. Keenan Lewis will immediately make the secondary better but we still need more help in the secondary.

Personally I hope Charles Casserly is correct when he says that Nnamdi Asomugha "can't run anymore." I hope that's right. I wish we could grab Antoine Winfield but only for the right price and if he still has some gas left in the tank after playing in the league for what seems like a thousand years.

Leighton B · 04-04-2013, 07:57 PM

HARPER WILL NOT START!! Roman Harper's days as a starter are over, he if still on the team will be a situational blitzer at best that's his only attribute that isn't flawed and it wasn't there last yr even when Spgs blitzed him!
NOW FOR JENKINS, He had to cover two spots making up for Harper's lack of mobility or because Patrick Robinson blows an assignment! There was chaos in that secondary all Spotlighted by the SAFETY ROMAN HARPER!

04-04-2013, 06:04 PM	#11
Danno Truth Addict Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Spanish Fort, AL (via NO and B/R) Posts: 24,720	Re: Worst ever for Jenkins and Harper Old news. When your front 7 grades out the worst in the NFL your safeties are gonna struggle. So if you're gonna bash Harper and Jenkins, you have to bash Lofton, Vilma, Greer, Robinson, White, Wilson, Smith, Ellis, and Hawthorne too Pretty much every player that got significant PT last year was turribul, just turribul. Here are all the PFF grades recapped (its a PPV site so no linky and only a recap) PFF rank by position of our defenders. Defensive Ends out of 109 Jordan 66 Smith 108 Galette 19 Wilson 33 DT out of 148 Bunkley 29 Ellis 118 Akiem Hicks 29 Johnson 42 Outside Linebackers Out of 109 Vilma 100 Hawthorne 102 Casillas 59 Wilson 81 Herring 87 Shanle 95 Inside linebackers out of 112 Lofton 104 Wilson (1 snap) 43 CB's out of 217 Greer 113 Robinson 193 Mack 72 White 203 Patrick 205 Murphy 70 Safeties out of 168 Harper 167 Jenkins 168 Bush 22 Abdul- Quddus 57 ClintSaints likes this.

04-04-2013, 06:06 PM	#12
RaginCajun83 Hou Saints Fan Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Houston, Tx Posts: 5,050	Re: Worst ever for Jenkins and Harper Oh I'm still p****d at Loomis for keeping Smith around, I don't care how cheap this year Supertek and Rell&Gold like this.

04-04-2013, 06:15 PM	#13
Utah_Saint Site Donor 2019 Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Salt Lake City, Utah Posts: 3,521	Re: Worst ever for Jenkins and Harper I wonder if PFF has ever graded out two starters at any one position, from the same team, as the worst in the NFL before Jenkins and Harper.

04-04-2013, 06:19 PM	#14
Danno Truth Addict Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Spanish Fort, AL (via NO and B/R) Posts: 24,720	Re: Worst ever for Jenkins and Harper Originally Posted by Utah_Saint I wonder if PFF has ever graded out two starters at any one position, from the same team, as the worst in the NFL before Jenkins and Harper. I doubt it. There never been a defense this bad from front to back in recent years. And in order for a unit to be that awful, the rest of the defense has to pitch in. When I see so many players grading near dead last who were good players in previous years it just confirms to me that it was 90% Spags and his square peg round hole schemes. Rell&Gold likes this.

04-04-2013, 06:21 PM	#15
TheOak 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Cypress Tx. Posts: 19,026	Re: Worst ever for Jenkins and Harper The first person remembered is the last one that failed. Safety's are the last ones to miss a tackle, but no where near the first. Danno and blackangold like this.

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04-04-2013, 06:25 PM	#16
Danno Truth Addict Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Spanish Fort, AL (via NO and B/R) Posts: 24,720	Re: Worst ever for Jenkins and Harper Originally Posted by TheOak Safety's are the last ones to miss a tackle, but no where near the first. Well said.

04-04-2013, 06:28 PM	#17
Seer1 Site Donor Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Bayou Bayfield CO Posts: 4,722	Re: Worst ever for Jenkins and Harper I'm not really out to insult anyone, but I'm really curious as to the criterion used in this "grading" process. As OAK has already pointed out, there are some glaring deficiencies in this rating system. It's easy to find sports hacks out there that write something a posters agree with. It's easy to accept something as fact if that opinion is the same as the poster's. As I look at the credentials of the authors of the referenced articles, I see very little in the way of actual upper level coaching and playing experience. "Fan" seems to be at the top of the resumes and as such, that makes OAK and me equal to the authors of the referenced articles in our level of expertise. So again I ask, how do Jenkins and Harper grade out with the real experts -our current coaches?
	; Your story isn't over yet ;

04-04-2013, 06:33 PM	#18
Danno Truth Addict Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Spanish Fort, AL (via NO and B/R) Posts: 24,720	Re: Worst ever for Jenkins and Harper Originally Posted by Seer1 I'm not really out to insult anyone, but I'm really curious as to the criterion used in this "grading" process. As OAK has already pointed out, there are some glaring deficiencies in this rating system. It's easy to find sports hacks out there that write something a posters agree with. It's easy to accept something as fact if that opinion is the same as the poster's. As I look at the credentials of the authors of the referenced articles, I see very little in the way of actual upper level coaching and playing experience. "Fan" seems to be at the top of the resumes and as such, that makes OAK and me equal to the authors of the referenced articles in our level of expertise. So again I ask, how do Jenkins and Harper grade out with the real experts -our current coaches? Apparently better than our CB's. And as others have pointed out, in a zone heavy scheme how does a grader know who's fault a completion is when its between the LB and Safety or the CB and Safety? Does Bush get credit for a pick that was a horrible throw when he was 10 yards away from the intended WR? Or does that count against him as it should?

04-04-2013, 07:26 PM	#19
ClintSaints 500th Post Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Glendale, CA Posts: 603	Re: Worst ever for Jenkins and Harper Our defense will go way up this season. I predict we will finish somewhere in the 13th to 19th range, which isn't bad considering if we had that type of defense last year, we could have easily gone 10-6 or even 11-5 or better. The main difference could be that players simply love working with Rob Ryan and they obviously didn't enjoy working for Steve Spagnuolo. Keenan Lewis will immediately make the secondary better but we still need more help in the secondary. Personally I hope Charles Casserly is correct when he says that Nnamdi Asomugha "can't run anymore." I hope that's right. I wish we could grab Antoine Winfield but only for the right price and if he still has some gas left in the tank after playing in the league for what seems like a thousand years.

04-04-2013, 07:57 PM	#20
Leighton B 100th Post Join Date: Feb 2013 Posts: 160	Re: Worst ever for Jenkins and Harper HARPER WILL NOT START!! Roman Harper's days as a starter are over, he if still on the team will be a situational blitzer at best that's his only attribute that isn't flawed and it wasn't there last yr even when Spgs blitzed him! NOW FOR JENKINS, He had to cover two spots making up for Harper's lack of mobility or because Patrick Robinson blows an assignment! There was chaos in that secondary all Spotlighted by the SAFETY ROMAN HARPER! Supertek likes this.
Leighton B 100th Post Join Date: Feb 2013 Posts: 160

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