Re: Sedrick Ellis in contact with Saints
 

How is he certainly worth the vet minimum?

Re: Sedrick Ellis in contact with Saints
 

Why? Did they tow one of his expensive cars out of the parking lot

Re: Sedrick Ellis in contact with Saints
 

damn who was the only person that said this was going to happen? ME THAT'S WHO. another one bites the dust fellas.

Re: Sedrick Ellis in contact with Saints
 

Durability
Familiarity
Dollars make sense
Gels with team
Trust from staff
Has a ring
Wants another

Re: Sedrick Ellis in contact with Saints
 

Meh. Spend the money where it'll have some positive impact.

Re: Sedrick Ellis in contact with Saints
 

I really don't think Ellis is a good fit in the 3-4. He would be better served trying to sign with a team running the 4-3. With Dallas making the conversion, they could use a DT.

Re: Sedrick Ellis in contact with Saints
 

I'm not so worried about his sack totals, either. It was supposed to be a big part of his game, to rush the passer, but I would never complain about him if he had been a good run stuffer. Or just been a solid space eater.

He is certainly not physically lacking. So that tells me he's not taking the game seriously enough. He has been consistently pushed around... And that is why I don't even want him around for depth. Unless he wakes up and starts playing like a man on a mission.

But that's one of those things where a change of scenery is probably the best thing for him. He's had his chance here. We'll see what the saints do, as this is only my opinion, and what I would do if I were making the decisions. I'm not, so I guess it doesn't really matter.

Re: Sedrick Ellis in contact with Saints
 

If the Saints are planning to fill the NT position with Hicks, Ellis, Bunkley and Johnson, they could have a heavy rotation that would work well. Hell those guys could do a down a piece and be hard charging everytime. Not a bad idea and I think that's exactly what coach is going to do. I told ya so!

Re: Sedrick Ellis in contact with Saints
 

Before the Spags disaster, he had 137 tackles, 12-1/2 sacks, 13 Passes defended and 2 forced fumbles in 54 games.

That equates to roughly 34 tackles, 3 sacks and 3 PD's per season

Thats great for vet minimum.

Re: Sedrick Ellis in contact with Saints
 

I am no longer surprised by this community's desire to being back/defend players which consistently have not performed. Not sure if its blind loyalty or something else, but this D will never get to where it should be if we keep bring back washed up talent. Statistically Shanle had some great seasons, hell Jason David had some nice int numbers before we let him go, lets bring those guys back too.

Stop looking at what he is payed to come back and remember he'll be taking a roster spot away from a new prospect; a roster spot which he hasn't been worth since 2010.

Re: Sedrick Ellis in contact with Saints
 

I really don't care if he's brought back or not, but bringing him back on a non-guaranteed contract doesn't deter us from spending money anywhere else. We aren't spending any money nor would he take a roster spot away from anyone else if he doesn't make the team.

Re: Sedrick Ellis in contact with Saints
 

Shanle was solid, not spectacular. David looked like an elephant on ice skates.

Ellis is far from washed up. And he's not taking up a roster spot until the final 53.

Re: Sedrick Ellis in contact with Saints
 

Those numbers aren't very good, but for vet minimum, sure. Problem is this... His decline (hard to think of a guy declining when he wasn't doing much in the first place, but still) began the year before Spags.

What is it with everyone who stinks it up somehow being shrugged off on Spagnuolo. I suppose Drew's interceptions, and Jimmy's drops were Spags' fault too. The guy got one season with a bunch of aging players, and young guys who hadn't been successful before, and some people just don't want to believe that maybe we have some bad players. We have some young, raw talent in the front seven who have a chance to be really good. But Payton wanted to change to the 3-4, and frankly, I've been barking up that tree for years. Can't blame him for making the change, and it's hard to blame it all on Spags when he had limited time to work with these guys.

Spagnuolo failed in that he couldn't improve upon what he had, which is his job regardless of circumstance, and for that he deserves some blame. But what really did he have? Let's be realistic.

Re: Sedrick Ellis in contact with Saints
 

Funny, GW had the same players and when he played them to their strengths we had a somewhat respectable defense...

Re: Sedrick Ellis in contact with Saints
 

So that money won't count against the cap unless he makes the final fifty-three?

Re: Sedrick Ellis in contact with Saints
 

I don't see why it would if it's not guaranteed. We sign over 80 players prior to camp and only 53 makes the team.

Re: Sedrick Ellis in contact with Saints
 

It's easy for me to overreact and see anyone being brought in as already having made the team. As long as he's not a lock then what the hell? Tebow though? Still no.

Re: Sedrick Ellis in contact with Saints
 

We did not have a somewhat respectable defense. That's pretty absurd. Haven't had one since '09, when we had Sharper and much younger versions of Will Smith, Jabari Greer, Jonathon Vilma and Tracy Porter.

You could maybe (I stress maybe) say that the '10 defense was somewhat adequate, and yet it was not good enough to keep a horrible Seattle offense from scoring 41 in the playoffs, when our offense had to scratch and claw to score 36 without several key players.

Steve Spagnuolo was not hired to come in and run a "GW" all or nothing style defense. He was hired to run HIS system, which brings me back to my original question... What really did he have? He got one year and almost no talent, with the exceptions being the young and unproven Junior Galette, Martez Wilson, and Cam Jordan (Jordan not being known for pass rushing prowess).

No coordinator looks good without good players. Williams runs the same system everywhere he goes, and his success has always depended on his available talent. But some systems work better than others. The Saints decided that GW's wasn't working anymore (they weren't wrong), and brought in Spagnuolo. He needed front four depth to make his four man rush work, yet he didn't even have quality starters.

Now that I've answered my own question, feel free to explain how I'm wrong.

Re: Sedrick Ellis in contact with Saints
 

Defending Spagdontknowdefense, no matter how bad the defense was in past years regardless of the circumstances it never set an NFL record for the all time worse defense. OMG, how can you defend this guy?
He had no credentials to speak of as a DC except for the Giant's, anyone on this forum could have coached that defense, loaded from front to back, side to side, top to bottom.REALLY!!!!!!!!!
I've agreed with most of the things you wrote but not when it comes to Spagdontknowdefense, HELL NO!!!!!!!!!!!

Re: Sedrick Ellis in contact with Saints
 

We did have some holes, but I'd guess talent wise we were probably middle of the pack.

I'd say the 2012 disaster was 80% on Spags and his system, and 20% on talent.

Re: Sedrick Ellis in contact with Saints
 

I can agree with that assessment, don't really agree with your opinion on big twinkie (Ellis) but it's yours and you're entitled to it.

Re: Sedrick Ellis in contact with Saints
 

I bet Sean could get really creative with Tebow and be successful. The Pats as well. Not saying we should sign him, but it would be interesting.

Re: Sedrick Ellis in contact with Saints
 

Even If Ellis were to pay back money he stole, and that would increase available cap spending money, I'm not sure I want to see him in the black and gold...

Re: Sedrick Ellis in contact with Saints
 

The same has been said about Will Smith over the years. He adds value, just like Ellis could.

Re: Sedrick Ellis in contact with Saints
 

Between the two, I'd take Smith hands down.

Re: Sedrick Ellis in contact with Saints
 

No disrespect man, but you should go a little further back in this thread to see where I'm coming from. I said he failed to make the defense better, which is what he's supposed to do no matter the circumstance, and he deserves blame for that. The whole reason I'm talking about him is because I'm tired of everyone defending poor player performance and putting it all on him. Most of these players were already bad, or on a severe decline (i.e Smith, Vilma, Greer).

There's no excuse for being the worst defense in the history of the league. But these weren't Spags' players, and giving him one year to work with them (plus, an historically horrific off-season) didn't help him. I'm fine with the change the Saints made. I'm just not fine with people acting like these players weren't bad to begin with.

I disagree that Spags had no credentials of coaching defense outside of New York. He had very respectable defenses in St. Louis with less talent (you might remember what they did to us in '11).

And while no one denies the front 4 talent he had in New York, they haven't been the same since he left, and have had basically the exact same rotation, minus Strahan who was at that point probably their 3rd best lineman. What talent did they have past the defensive line? That team started the year horribly, couldn't cover a sleeping baby with a blanket, and he made some adjustments that completely turned them around. I surely didn't say Steve did a GOOD job here. I'm saying stop pawning everything off on him.

Re: Sedrick Ellis in contact with Saints
 

I couldn't agree more with that sentiment.

Re: Sedrick Ellis in contact with Saints
 

Just my opinion, but trying to pin last year's "performance" on just one thing or one person is a mistake. Last year had some 'perfect storm' qualities to it

Re: Sedrick Ellis in contact with Saints
 

I'm fine with vet minimum. Very few successful runs against us were up the middle. Most were bounced outside where it was more DE or LB responsibility.
So Ellis was decent, has better numbers than Dorsey and some people still wanted us to go after him.

Re: Sedrick Ellis in contact with Saints
 

I think he's worth the vet minimum. Probably a little more. I don't think the Saints would find better for that kind of money. I'm sure there will be camp bodies that he'll have to prove himself against.

Re: Sedrick Ellis in contact with Saints
 

The bottom line this season (and probably next as well)

Re: Sedrick Ellis in contact with Saints
 

This didn't happen. Did it ?