Another angry former player
 

http://www.nola.com/saints/t-p/index...3105226760.xml

I'm not so sure where the venom is coming from here. I can see how our guys could detest Haslett as a person and a coach. It just makes more sense if the player wasn't born injured like Cam.

:kerry:

Another angry former player
 

Funny. Did he ever actually play. This guy was a waste of a paycheck.

Another angry former player
 

This should be intresting, it just adds to the rivaly. I mean you think that bag of coins thrown at him in the guantlet pissed him off too lmao.
Hey the only area Turley can hurt us in is blocking really well for Faulk. Maybe he will throw one of helmets down the feild than stick his middle finger up, and walk off the feild. I have that game on tape bye the way the Jets vs Saints. Of course I was in jail so I didn\'t get the chance to see it live. I called my father and told him to tape it.

[Edited on 23/9/2004 by blackroses]

[Edited on 23/9/2004 by blackroses]

Another angry former player
 

I always wondered why so many ex-players hate Haslett that much. It\'d be one thing if it was just a couple but it\'s like everyone that leaves hates him. It\'s gotta make you go hmmmmm?

Another angry former player
 

I don\'t think we hurt him as much as opposing teams did when the played us. Hell the guy was never on the field. He\'s lucky he lasted as long as he did.

Another angry former player
 

I\'d laugh out loud if Cam did hammer Haslett while going out of bounds.

The flip side is that with Cam, he\'d probably blow an achilles stepping over Haslett\'s clipboard to get back on the field.

Another angry former player
 

hahahahahahahahahahaha. LOL

:rollinglaugh:

Another angry former player
 

This quote is at best incomplete and stupid. If Cam Cleeland detests Haz, it would be nice of him to say why, rather than simply saying he hates him. I don\'t think you can take anything from this other than Cleeland likes to threaten guys on the sideline with no pads on - what a tough guy... bah.

Another angry former player
 

Gator - you beat me to it man. I\'d LOVE to hear what Danno and Saintfan have to say about this. I\'m sure Cam is just another crazy-azz cancer like Turley and the rest... or wait, every coach has players talk about taking them out on the sidelines, huh? LOL

Another angry former player
 

Taken from the same article.

It reads a little like; Benson doesn\'t know how to find good leadership/management to run the team and Haslett is seriously unfit for the job. Whatever Cam is saying about Haslett, it is obviously a personal thing between them. I\'m not going to jump on the Mickey Mouse organization bandwagon, but I would agree that Mr Benson is probably to content to be mediocre and too trusting when Haslett is telling him everything is fine, just a few little adjustments and we\'re headed to the superbowl.

Haslett is like the great OZ--pay no attention to the man behind the curtain, freedom is on the march, blah, blah, blah.

:kerry:

Another angry former player
 

Ok, remind me again why Cleeland is relevant? Didn\'t even know he was still playing.

Another angry former player
 

He probably isn\'t relevant on his own, just an insider\'s view of how the organization works.
He\'ll probably blow his achilles sometime soon anyway.

:kerry:

Another angry former player
 

[quoteGator - you beat me to it man. I\'d LOVE to hear what Danno and Saintfan have to say about this. I\'m sure Cam is just another crazy-azz cancer like Turley and the rest... or wait, every coach has players talk about taking them out on the sidelines, huh? LOL [/quote:c3f0d82849]

This just in...

Rams | Cleelan Doubtful after tirade with press- from www.KFFL.com
Thu, 23 Sep 2004 16:22:14 -0700

St. Louis Rams TE Cam Cleelan stessed ovaries after infuriating comments made toward former employer Saints coach and real man Jim Haslett. He is listed as doubful for Sundays home game vs the Saints.



But seriously, are you trying to say we screwed up by keeping him? Or that we\'re a Mickey Mouse organization because the owner made his fortune as a car dealer? I don\'t get your spin.

Another angry former player
 

Me too. Seems the guys that have a problem with Haz either couldn\'t or wouldn\'t perform or their behavior was detrimental to the team. Some folks think we should keep those type players I gather. I disagree.

Another angry former player
 

I agree with you guys about Cam. He is a wuss in my book. However he was a good TE when the Saints could get him on the field. And We really haven\'t had a TE of his caliber since he left. And don\'t y\'all think that maybe something is wrong when all these players the Saints get rid of have nothing but bad thing to say about the organization. Where there\'s smoke theres fire.

Another angry former player
 

We\'ve got two on the roster and one on th practice squad. I\'d take any of \'em over Cam -- ouch I broke a nail -- Cleeland.

Another angry former player
 

How happy are you about a company that you once worked for, but quit? Had to have a reason to leave, didn\'t you?

Another angry former player
 

I agree with BnB on this one.

Also, \"all these players\", who has really complained that much about the organization beyond Turley, Cleeland, and Hawthorne? Roaf had a beef with Horn, and Johnson was mad they wouldn\'t pay him (you wouldn\'t be mad about someone not paying you enough if you didn\'t want to play for them).

This isn\'t a challenge that there AREN\'T \"all these players\", I\'d just like to know who they are (and how many of them there really are) before I form an opinion about it.

Another angry former player
 

Listen, I don\'t know that Cam is all that relevant, but I can\'t believe people dismiss this same argument over and over.

Player after player has come out and said that the organization feels more like a sleezy car dealership than a football team. Many have criticized Haslett and Benson, and you guys ALWAYS dismiss it as IRRELEVANT. I don\'t understand how on one hand you can continually scratch your head and wonder how this team didn\'t live up to your 12-4 predictions or the marketing department\'s hype and then hear things like this and say - \"there\'s no correlation.\"

Is Cam just an angry crazed bitter ex-Saint. I doubt it. He never seemed that way in NO or anywhere else. Maybe with Turley you could say that, but Cam? Roaf? I dunno. I\'m not suggesting that the Saints should have kept these guys, but the fact that they\'re gone doesn\'t mean their comments are completely without merit. It could be that they\'re nuts, or it could be that many others feel the same but don\'t want to speak up about it b/c they\'ve moved on and don\'t want to waste anymore of their time worry about the Saints.

I\'m not saying that Cam Cleeland is undeniable proof, but he\'s just another in a very long string of players that you guys ignore almost as much as you believe the propoganda spewed out by this organization every May and June.

Another angry former player
 

WhoDat, I salute you sir! :salute:

You have hit the nail on the head. If you hear it once, the guy is probably just a bitterman. If you hear it over and over, then maybe the charge has some merit anyway.

It isn\'t like we just released Cam either. He\'s been with the Patriots and some other teams since us and he still seems hopping mad at Haslett. What is it about Haslett that inspires such loathing from people?

:kerry:

Another angry former player
 

He didn\'t take Turley\'s crap...

He didn\'t take Jackson\'s refusal to follow simple rules...

He didn\'t have anything to do with La\'Roi or Johnson...

He wasn\'t Roaf\'s counselor or daddy (or father to his wife\'s baby)...

Cam seems to be pretty tight with Turley...I wonder if that has anything to do with his recent willingness to make an ass out of himself.

I\'m not really defending Haz here because I don\'t really know what happened with Cam, but of the players you guys seem to remember the most, personally, I would have told \'em to hit the frappin\' road too.

Another angry former player
 

http://cbs.sportsline.com/b/page/pre...573968,00.html

Maybe it\'s because Haslett baby\'s Brooks and crucifies everyone else? It must be hard when the boss caters to the most \"me-first\" guy on the team and puts everyone else under the bus.

Aaron Brooks = :niko_saddam:

:kerry:

Another angry former player
 

WHO DAT R U KIDDING ME WITH THAT POST. THE GUY PLAYED LIKE 2 GAMES IN 4 SEASONS. WHO GIVES A HES MAD. I HOPE HIS MOUTHING GETS THE SAINTS GOING. CHRIST HES TALKING ABOUT THE SAINTS AS IF THE DID HIM WRONG. HOW DARE U NOT KEEP ME WHEN I DONT PLAY EVER. HES AN IDIOT. I CANT BELIEVE U WOULD TRY TO FIND ANYTHING IN THAT. IT BE ONE THING IF IT WAS LAROI GLOVER BUT CHRIST CAM CLEELAND. R U KIDDING ME

[Edited on 25/9/2004 by JOESAM2002]

Another angry former player
 

Could be.

OR...

It could be that Brooks shows up at his correct weight, makes all the meetings, doesn\'t let his anger affect his play on the feild, is a big boy and has his personal affairs in order and doesn\'t let them affect the team, etc...etc...etc.

Another angry former player
 

brooks must go
my god how dare brooks that he want to get paid. oh not that. he should just play for 50,000 a year while everyone else waround him makes money. not players owners the league u get ti. theese guys r one of 53 men on 32 teams. do the math on that. thats less then 1700 people. now even if u include practice squad and whatever else ur talking about 2000-2500 people in the WORLD that can play this sport at this level and they dont deserve to be paid for that r u frigan kidding. i dont know what u do for a livinfg but ill bet u that a whole lot mnore then 2500 people in the world can do it. n thats why ur not paid like they r.
also concider he is a qb. only one starter on the team. 32 teams?
think about it

Another angry former player
 

Quarterbacking professionally isn\'t exactly brain surgery. The guy gets paid to play a game.
He makes a living by the charity of others, just like the tap-dancing kids in the French Quarter.
Let\'s try not to overinflate how important this is.

Another angry former player
 

Sorta Like Deuce and his precious full back huh?

[Edited on 25/9/2004 by saintfan]

Another angry former player
 

Very much so, all entertainers do.

Another angry former player
 

WhoDat, I know you weren\'t directing this at me, but I\'m beginning to feel like you don\'t read what I write (which makes me sad).

I agree that there are some players who left mad at Haz (Turley and Hawthorne most noteably). However, NEITHER of these guys said what made them mad, just that they were mad (though I believe Hawthorne said they didn\'t \"give him a chance\" - wow). Other guys who left didn\'t say ANYTHING to my knowlege about Haz (including Roaf, Glover, Johnson, Knight, Jackson, and so on). If they did, it WOULD be worth hearing, and I\'d be happy to consider it.

I don\'t think anyone supports a general argument against any player, coach, or organization, that has the following form:

1. Many people who left were mad.
Therefore,
2. It is x they were mad at and they are justified.

We\'d want to know a lot more about who left, why, and what they said. That was BnB\'s point, and I agreed.

Of course, I agree with you that simply dismissing them as \"crazy\" or \"pu--ies\" is not a good tactic either, AND I agree that this seems to happen a lot.

Another angry former player
 

and so u brooks must go would reduse the money or be paid as much as needed for u to get by in life. if u were able to be paid 6 million a season u would only ask 300,00. ur just aq nice guy like that.

dont be jealous that god didnt afford u the same talent. that u r just like me and most if not all of the people who write on here regular people. but were all fans of this sport and of theese people who play it. of course not of all that play it.

see ur first problem is understanding why theese players r payed so much. they r because they generate so much money for mr.benson and the saints. if they didnt earn him money they wouldnt be paid. thats first off. just like any buisness. and money makes the world go around. we all love it and chase after it. if not u would live in a cave somewhere and live off the land. 2nd of all to pretend that this does not require intelligence is sill especially at the qb spot. if u had the physical requirements for the sport u would struggle to be able to be any good at it. me also not just u. thats why qb\'s dont just come out and r great from the beginning. thats why it takes some years. because it is eqally a game of physical ability as well as mental ability. theese players r edjucated. not all equally but for the most part as well or better as anyone on here. again dont give me the one in one hunred example. talk the norm please. nothing is black or white in life its all a gray. also for the players that played at high profile colleges they had to juggle academics as well as the game the practices and possibly more just to make it to the nfl. all the while not being able to receive anything more then a free tuition while the school and television channels get rich off them. all the while they may not have any money more then likely come from some crap neighborhood. dont get me wrong it is an excellent opportunity they receive but lets be honest nothing is free in life. so if they r receiving 80,000 dollar scholarships someone is making bank off that somewheree or they wouldnt get it.

so sorry to disagree with u but i dont dislike people who make money because they r gifted enough to generate enough revinue that they in turn r payed to do so. n we all pay to help support that

Another angry former player
 

Spending a bit too much time with 08? Talk about speculation.

J- was not directing that post at you in any way - sorry if it came across that way. I do read your posts and think you are one of the better posters on the board, even if you often fail to take a position and instead come out like Switzerland on Earth Day! ;)

Not really making that argument. Cam is clearly upset with Haslett. He is not the first, but the argument I\'ve made time and again about this organization\'s alleged lack of professionality doesn\'t suggest that Haslett is the problem. It suggests an organization-wide lack of character, professionality, and often times, skill. Haslett could fit in to that, and does, IMO, contribute - but I\'ve never said HE is the problem in this regard.

Another angry former player
 

Speculation? Ummm....yes...you\'ll notice the words \"I wonder\" in my post. Speculation...for sure...Insinuation...I think not. That\'s the big difference.

See, I could type, \"There\'s lots of people callin\' the Saints a Mickey Mouse Organization\", OR, I could type, \"At least one player is callin\' the Saints a Mickey Mouse Organization\". One is accurate and one isn\'t. Can you figure which is which? ;)

[Edited on 26/9/2004 by saintfan]

Another angry former player
 

Who,

I just want some granola buddy! I agree that often I don\'t take a stand, but here are a couple that I have made recently: 1. We need a CB in the worst way, 2. 9-7, unless improvement is made (I\'m sure I\'ll get some egg on my face for this one), 3. Cam Cleeland\'s comment is irrelevant.

I see.

However, don\'t you think that that if three people are mad at x, four people are mad at y, and one is mad at z, does that mean that x, y, and z ARE the organization, thus, there is a problem with the organization; or, should we just say that there are people mad at different people and that the organization\'s dignity is unaffected. I guess, I\'m just wondering if it makes sense to claim that the organization itself is the problem (unless we identify the organization with the people who made the decisions - of course, those people - x, y, and z - have changed over time and some are no longer with the organization). I guess that was a bit rambly, but you probably take my point.

Another angry former player
 

Show me a Super Bowl ring on Hasbeen\'s finger and then you can begin to dicredit first round picks and Pro Bowlers that are disgruntled with the organization and the job Hasbeen is doing in New Orleans .... ;)

Another angry former player
 

When X,Y, and Z are the Owner, GM, and Head Coach, yeah, that speaks directly to the organization\'s professionality. If it were a player, waterboy, and grounds keeper it might be different.

Another angry former player
 

Who,

Point taken. Of course, the GM has turned over during that time. Does that matter?

Another angry former player
 

Possibly - I\'m not sure either have been great. Mueller was a fantastic evaluator of talent, but if we are to believe the current front office, a little power hungry, controlling, and nuts. Loomis is one hell of a finance guy who doesn\'t seem to know a whole lot about football. That\'s my take.