Ingram sets big personal goal for this season

Supertek · 08-22-2013, 08:48 AM

Go look at the numbers. Last year Ingram was below 4 yards per carry at 3.9 and he had more opportunities than anyone else. PT was overall at 4.5 and Sproles above 5. Ever see this guy bust it for a long gain ? None that I can recall. For the preseason he is at 3.5 about what you would expect for him and that's not getting it done. He is supposed to be our feature back don't think you can compare him to the likes of Reggie who was situational.

Danno · 08-22-2013, 08:50 AM

Originally Posted by Supertek

Go look at the numbers. Last year Ingram was below 4 yards per carry at 3.9 and he had more opportunities than anyone else. PT was overall at 4.5 and Sproles above 5. Ever see this guy bust it for a long gain ? None that I can recall. For the preseason he is at 3.5 about what you would expect for him and that's not getting it done. He is supposed to be our feature back don't think you can compare him to the likes of Reggie who was situational.

I posted numbers right above your post, which you've ignored.

ProMallNinja · 08-22-2013, 09:13 AM

Originally Posted by Danno

Lynell Hamilton averaged 3.6 yards per carry.
Mike Bell averaged 3.7 yards per carry.

1.8, 1.6, 3.3 2.5, 2.0, 0.0, 3.8, 3.3, 2.3
Those were PT’s averages in 9 of the 16 games last year.
The problem wasn’t Ingram.

Reggie's 1st three years as a Saint 3.6, 3.7, 3.8
The problem wasn’t Ingram.

Sproles is a 3rd down scat back. No comparison.
He's not getting the 3rd and 1, 4th and 1, or short yardage goal line carries.
The problem wasn’t Ingram.

And Deuce McAllister, the best RB the Saints ever had averaged 4.0 yards per carry over his last 5 years here.
The problem wasn’t Ingram.

I don't even argue this one any more, Danno. There is a contention of people with a biased opinion based on irrationalities and only a half-hearted look at the statistics as a whole. The bottom line is this: If you're a Saints first round draft pick, be prepared to be judged irrationally. The second half of last season Ingram had one of the better stat lines of the past several seasons of our RB stable. Who knows what it could have looked like if they had passed to him any.

Danno · 08-22-2013, 09:19 AM

Originally Posted by ProMallNinja

I don't even argue this one any more, Danno. There is a contention of people with a biased opinion based on irrationalities and only a half-hearted look at the statistics as a whole. The bottom line is this: If you're a Saints first round draft pick, be prepared to be judged irrationally. The second half of last season Ingram had one of the better stat lines of the past several seasons of our RB stable. Who knows what it could have looked like if they had passed to him any.

I think I'll take that route on several issues. It gets frustrating when people's biases cloud rational analysis.

TheOak · 08-22-2013, 10:05 AM

Originally Posted by Supertek

Go look at the numbers. Last year Ingram was below 4 yards per carry at 3.9 and he had more opportunities than anyone else. PT was overall at 4.5 and Sproles above 5. Ever see this guy bust it for a long gain ? None that I can recall. For the preseason he is at 3.5 about what you would expect for him and that's not getting it done. He is supposed to be our feature back don't think you can compare him to the likes of Reggie who was situational.

Often overlooked is the fact that Ingram has yet to have a full preseason with his head coach.

2011 - lock out....
2012 - Game plan by committee - Ingram was telegraphed. PT/Sproles were used in a different way.
2013 - after this season there are no more excuses. He does however get this season to prove himself one way or the other.

rezburna · 08-22-2013, 10:57 AM

Ingram in, run.

PT in, open playbook.

Sproles in, open playbook.

There in lies the problem. Open the playbook regardless who's on the field. I'd like to see more Ingram/Sproles, Thomas/Sproles, Ingram/Thomas sets personally. 2 RB's, 2 TE's. Make it interesting.

papz · 08-22-2013, 11:32 AM

Obviously there's credence to that. At the same time, you could bring Ivory into the equation and it would then lessen that. There wasn't an open playbook for Ivory either.

Rugby Saint II · 08-22-2013, 12:41 PM

YPC don't matter as much when you are a short yardage specialist. He usually gets the tough yards even when the box is stuffed.

papz · 08-22-2013, 01:14 PM

If that's going to be his role, then yea... the YPC is that big of a deal if he does his job. But if we're trying to develop him into a franchise type work horse back, averaging under 4 YPC matters... and is very underwhelming.

I want him to be a 4.4/4.5 guy... but I'd be content him him hovering around the 4.2 mark if he's our long term lead horse option.

ProMallNinja · 08-22-2013, 02:02 PM

Originally Posted by papz

If that's going to be his role, then yea... the YPC is that big of a deal if he does his job. But if we're trying to develop him into a franchise type work horse back, averaging under 4 YPC matters... and is very underwhelming.

I want him to be a 4.4/4.5 guy... but I'd be content him him hovering around the 4.2 mark if he's our long term lead horse option.

Now that his knee is 100% and we look to be intent on getting him more involved, it is highly likely that he puts together a season that looks a lot like what he did over the last 8 games of last season (after his knee got right). He was a 4.2 ypc back from weeks 10 to 17. He also received twice as many carries during that period compared to the first half of the season. Now that he's 100% and had a healthy offseason, it would not surprise me a bit to see him settle in as a 4.4-4.5 ypc back. If he gets 15 carries a game and averages 4.4 ypc then he's a 1000 yard back. He's fully capable as long as he's fully incorporated into the offense and not just goal-to-go and short yardage situations.

08-22-2013, 08:48 AM	#11
Supertek 500th Post Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Harvey La. Posts: 611	Re: Ingram sets big personal goal for this season Go look at the numbers. Last year Ingram was below 4 yards per carry at 3.9 and he had more opportunities than anyone else. PT was overall at 4.5 and Sproles above 5. Ever see this guy bust it for a long gain ? None that I can recall. For the preseason he is at 3.5 about what you would expect for him and that's not getting it done. He is supposed to be our feature back don't think you can compare him to the likes of Reggie who was situational.

08-22-2013, 08:50 AM	#12
Danno Truth Addict Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Spanish Fort, AL (via NO and B/R) Posts: 24,761	Re: Ingram sets big personal goal for this season Originally Posted by Supertek Go look at the numbers. Last year Ingram was below 4 yards per carry at 3.9 and he had more opportunities than anyone else. PT was overall at 4.5 and Sproles above 5. Ever see this guy bust it for a long gain ? None that I can recall. For the preseason he is at 3.5 about what you would expect for him and that's not getting it done. He is supposed to be our feature back don't think you can compare him to the likes of Reggie who was situational. I posted numbers right above your post, which you've ignored.

08-22-2013, 09:13 AM	#13
ProMallNinja Site Donor 2014 Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: MS Gulf Coast Posts: 242	Re: Ingram sets big personal goal for this season Originally Posted by Danno Lynell Hamilton averaged 3.6 yards per carry. Mike Bell averaged 3.7 yards per carry. 1.8, 1.6, 3.3 2.5, 2.0, 0.0, 3.8, 3.3, 2.3 Those were PT’s averages in 9 of the 16 games last year. The problem wasn’t Ingram. Reggie's 1st three years as a Saint 3.6, 3.7, 3.8 The problem wasn’t Ingram. Sproles is a 3rd down scat back. No comparison. He's not getting the 3rd and 1, 4th and 1, or short yardage goal line carries. The problem wasn’t Ingram. And Deuce McAllister, the best RB the Saints ever had averaged 4.0 yards per carry over his last 5 years here. The problem wasn’t Ingram. I don't even argue this one any more, Danno. There is a contention of people with a biased opinion based on irrationalities and only a half-hearted look at the statistics as a whole. The bottom line is this: If you're a Saints first round draft pick, be prepared to be judged irrationally. The second half of last season Ingram had one of the better stat lines of the past several seasons of our RB stable. Who knows what it could have looked like if they had passed to him any. saintfan and Danno like this.

08-22-2013, 09:19 AM	#14
Danno Truth Addict Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Spanish Fort, AL (via NO and B/R) Posts: 24,761	Re: Ingram sets big personal goal for this season Originally Posted by ProMallNinja I don't even argue this one any more, Danno. There is a contention of people with a biased opinion based on irrationalities and only a half-hearted look at the statistics as a whole. The bottom line is this: If you're a Saints first round draft pick, be prepared to be judged irrationally. The second half of last season Ingram had one of the better stat lines of the past several seasons of our RB stable. Who knows what it could have looked like if they had passed to him any. I think I'll take that route on several issues. It gets frustrating when people's biases cloud rational analysis.

08-22-2013, 10:05 AM	#15
TheOak 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Cypress Tx. Posts: 19,061	Re: Ingram sets big personal goal for this season Originally Posted by Supertek Go look at the numbers. Last year Ingram was below 4 yards per carry at 3.9 and he had more opportunities than anyone else. PT was overall at 4.5 and Sproles above 5. Ever see this guy bust it for a long gain ? None that I can recall. For the preseason he is at 3.5 about what you would expect for him and that's not getting it done. He is supposed to be our feature back don't think you can compare him to the likes of Reggie who was situational. Often overlooked is the fact that Ingram has yet to have a full preseason with his head coach. 2011 - lock out.... 2012 - Game plan by committee - Ingram was telegraphed. PT/Sproles were used in a different way. 2013 - after this season there are no more excuses. He does however get this season to prove himself one way or the other.

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08-22-2013, 10:57 AM	#16
rezburna 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Kenner, LA Posts: 8,238	Re: Ingram sets big personal goal for this season Ingram in, run. PT in, open playbook. Sproles in, open playbook. There in lies the problem. Open the playbook regardless who's on the field. I'd like to see more Ingram/Sproles, Thomas/Sproles, Ingram/Thomas sets personally. 2 RB's, 2 TE's. Make it interesting.

08-22-2013, 11:32 AM	#17
papz Problem? Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: New Orleans Posts: 11,801	Re: Ingram sets big personal goal for this season Obviously there's credence to that. At the same time, you could bring Ivory into the equation and it would then lessen that. There wasn't an open playbook for Ivory either.

08-22-2013, 12:41 PM	#18
Rugby Saint II Bounty Money $$$ Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: 5800 Airline Dr. Metairie, LA. Posts: 24,250	Re: Ingram sets big personal goal for this season YPC don't matter as much when you are a short yardage specialist. He usually gets the tough yards even when the box is stuffed.

08-22-2013, 01:14 PM	#19
papz Problem? Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: New Orleans Posts: 11,801	Re: Ingram sets big personal goal for this season If that's going to be his role, then yea... the YPC is that big of a deal if he does his job. But if we're trying to develop him into a franchise type work horse back, averaging under 4 YPC matters... and is very underwhelming. I want him to be a 4.4/4.5 guy... but I'd be content him him hovering around the 4.2 mark if he's our long term lead horse option.

08-22-2013, 02:02 PM	#20
ProMallNinja Site Donor 2014 Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: MS Gulf Coast Posts: 242	Re: Ingram sets big personal goal for this season Originally Posted by papz If that's going to be his role, then yea... the YPC is that big of a deal if he does his job. But if we're trying to develop him into a franchise type work horse back, averaging under 4 YPC matters... and is very underwhelming. I want him to be a 4.4/4.5 guy... but I'd be content him him hovering around the 4.2 mark if he's our long term lead horse option. Now that his knee is 100% and we look to be intent on getting him more involved, it is highly likely that he puts together a season that looks a lot like what he did over the last 8 games of last season (after his knee got right). He was a 4.2 ypc back from weeks 10 to 17. He also received twice as many carries during that period compared to the first half of the season. Now that he's 100% and had a healthy offseason, it would not surprise me a bit to see him settle in as a 4.4-4.5 ypc back. If he gets 15 carries a game and averages 4.4 ypc then he's a 1000 yard back. He's fully capable as long as he's fully incorporated into the offense and not just goal-to-go and short yardage situations.

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