Ingram - rumors along with everything else

SmashMouth · 08-31-2013, 07:41 AM

Originally Posted by SloMotion

A subliminal predicted finish in this photo? Not that we did not expect the Saints to finish atop the NFC South!

TheOak · 08-31-2013, 08:25 AM

Originally Posted by SmashMouth

A subliminal predicted finish in this photo? Not that we did not expect the Saints to finish atop the NFC South!

Not so subliminal... Look at all of the stacks.

TheOak · 08-31-2013, 08:48 AM

We are no weaker with out Ingram. Is he proven? Yes, proven to be the man that can't gain enough YPC to jump start the running game, reliably get a 1st down.

Are Robinson and Cadet proven? No. Where will they be next year if Ingram stays? Still unproven or running it down our throat on another team.

Seattle was about depth.. everyone went down. we have depth.

As much as I hate to say it because this is his one gig, this is all on Payton. RBs are not drafted in the first round anymore because they are just not that valuable at draft time. In the last 3 years only 3 RBs have gone in the first round.

Anyone remember how many RB we went through in 2009?

Seven: They all go down at one time or another, that's why we RB by committee. (It's smart)
PT
Bell
Hammilton
Bush
Eckel
Evans
Mailei

SmashMouth · 08-31-2013, 09:04 AM

We should keep him ... it's a luxury we can afford to keep for now. There will be injuries during this championship season.

TheOak · 08-31-2013, 09:08 AM

Originally Posted by saintsfan403

Oak, my point is that Ingram played 13 snaps less than Robinson did and had a slightly better avg ypc (5.4 vs 5.2....I know it's peanuts)...also Ingram had what, 2 carries in the second half?

Yes.... One would expect Ingram to do a lot better than a rookie?

The context of my original reply when someone said Robinson did what he did it was against other than starters was that Ingram (starter) was running against non starters also... It was an "ill go along with your argument" reply, because honestly, for a RB it doesn't matter what string he is going up against unless he is blocking. RBs take on holes not DTsm that is what linemen are for.

TheOak · 08-31-2013, 09:09 AM

Originally Posted by SmashMouth

We should keep him ... it's a luxury we can afford to keep for now. There will be injuries during this championship season.

I would agree wholeheartedly if not for the possibility we could get a defensive starter for him.

dizzle88 · 08-31-2013, 09:42 AM

Originally Posted by TheOak

I would agree wholeheartedly if not for the possibility we could get a defensive starter for him.

If we were to trade ingram i think now is the wrong time to do it, unless we could get a guy like JPP as part of the trade

If we are going to trade him i think we should do it in next years draft, get a years play out of him as I dont know who we could get that would start this year on defense

TheOak · 08-31-2013, 10:17 AM

Originally Posted by dizzle88

If we were to trade ingram i think now is the wrong time to do it, unless we could get a guy like JPP as part of the trade

If we are going to trade him i think we should do it in next years draft, get a years play out of him as I dont know who we could get that would start this year on defense

Perceived value also accompanies risk. Play the hot hand, strike when the iron is hot, and all that yada...

Right now it seems that due to injuries in the league Ingram could go for more than the face value of his card, wait until the off season or draft and injury could happen, better draft picks could happen, more things could happen to devalue him that increase his value. It's a gamble.

Out of curiosity, why is now the wrong time?

dizzle88 · 08-31-2013, 10:50 AM

Originally Posted by TheOak

Out of curiosity, why is now the wrong time?

I just feel now is the wrong time as its a week before the start of the regular season

If we got a defensive player that we wanted to make an immediate impact would they have enough time to learn rob ryans scheme or would they have to be brought along slowly.

I think if we were to do it coming up to the draft next year no.1 we got a years play from ingram, no.2 if we get a player in the trade he has a full offseason and training camp with our team and no.3 like you correctly pointed out - our offense is successful due to the depth and versatility at RB, if ingram gets traded now it only takes PT to get injured and we are dangerously thin on the RB side.

I think if we were to get a years play out of ingram and trade him next year it would be a safe plan, sometimes gambles pay off (ambush) and sometimes you get burned by them

TheOak · 08-31-2013, 10:56 AM

Originally Posted by dizzle88

I just feel now is the wrong time as its a week before the start of the regular season

If we got a defensive player that we wanted to make an immediate impact would they have enough time to learn rob ryans scheme or would they have to be brought along slowly.

I think if we were to do it coming up to the draft next year no.1 we got a years play from ingram, no.2 if we get a player in the trade he has a full offseason and training camp with our team and no.3 like you correctly pointed out - our offense is successful due to the depth and versatility at RB, if ingram gets traded now it only takes PT to get injured and we are dangerously thin on the RB side.

I think if we were to get a years play out of ingram and trade him next year it would be a safe plan, sometimes gambles pay off (ambush) and sometimes you get burned by them

The catch to the defense is that it morphs throughout the season and into the playoffs so even our veterans are learning slightly different things week in and week out, it changes based on who we play.

Who ever we get will not be off the street and while a lot of defensive coordinators claim a defensive scheme there are only a few distinctly different different defensive schemes so all a player has to learn is the calls.

08-31-2013, 07:41 AM	#121
SmashMouth I donated, did you? Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Mandeville, LA Posts: 38,123 Blog Entries: 29	Re: Interesting RUMOR: Giants-Saints in Ingram trade talks - RUMOR Originally Posted by SloMotion A subliminal predicted finish in this photo? Not that we did not expect the Saints to finish atop the NFC South! saintsfan1976, B_Dub_Saint, 73Saint and 2 others like this.

08-31-2013, 08:25 AM	#122
TheOak 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Cypress Tx. Posts: 19,026	Re: Interesting RUMOR: Giants-Saints in Ingram trade talks - RUMOR Originally Posted by SmashMouth A subliminal predicted finish in this photo? Not that we did not expect the Saints to finish atop the NFC South! Not so subliminal... Look at all of the stacks.

08-31-2013, 08:48 AM	#123
TheOak 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Cypress Tx. Posts: 19,026	Re: Interesting RUMOR: Giants-Saints in Ingram trade talks - RUMOR We are no weaker with out Ingram. Is he proven? Yes, proven to be the man that can't gain enough YPC to jump start the running game, reliably get a 1st down. Are Robinson and Cadet proven? No. Where will they be next year if Ingram stays? Still unproven or running it down our throat on another team. Seattle was about depth.. everyone went down. we have depth. As much as I hate to say it because this is his one gig, this is all on Payton. RBs are not drafted in the first round anymore because they are just not that valuable at draft time. In the last 3 years only 3 RBs have gone in the first round. Anyone remember how many RB we went through in 2009? Seven: They all go down at one time or another, that's why we RB by committee. (It's smart) PT Bell Hammilton Bush Eckel Evans Mailei ChrisXVI likes this.
	It's not what you look at that matters, it's what you see. ~ Henry David Thoreau

08-31-2013, 09:04 AM	#124
SmashMouth I donated, did you? Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Mandeville, LA Posts: 38,123 Blog Entries: 29	Re: Interesting RUMOR: Giants-Saints in Ingram trade talks - RUMOR We should keep him ... it's a luxury we can afford to keep for now. There will be injuries during this championship season.

08-31-2013, 09:08 AM	#125
TheOak 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Cypress Tx. Posts: 19,026	Re: Interesting RUMOR: Giants-Saints in Ingram trade talks - RUMOR Originally Posted by saintsfan403 Oak, my point is that Ingram played 13 snaps less than Robinson did and had a slightly better avg ypc (5.4 vs 5.2....I know it's peanuts)...also Ingram had what, 2 carries in the second half? Yes.... One would expect Ingram to do a lot better than a rookie? The context of my original reply when someone said Robinson did what he did it was against other than starters was that Ingram (starter) was running against non starters also... It was an "ill go along with your argument" reply, because honestly, for a RB it doesn't matter what string he is going up against unless he is blocking. RBs take on holes not DTsm that is what linemen are for.

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08-31-2013, 09:09 AM	#126
TheOak 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Cypress Tx. Posts: 19,026	Re: Interesting RUMOR: Giants-Saints in Ingram trade talks - RUMOR Originally Posted by SmashMouth We should keep him ... it's a luxury we can afford to keep for now. There will be injuries during this championship season. I would agree wholeheartedly if not for the possibility we could get a defensive starter for him.

08-31-2013, 09:42 AM	#127
dizzle88 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 11,208	Re: Interesting RUMOR: Giants-Saints in Ingram trade talks - RUMOR Originally Posted by TheOak I would agree wholeheartedly if not for the possibility we could get a defensive starter for him. If we were to trade ingram i think now is the wrong time to do it, unless we could get a guy like JPP as part of the trade If we are going to trade him i think we should do it in next years draft, get a years play out of him as I dont know who we could get that would start this year on defense

08-31-2013, 10:17 AM	#128
TheOak 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Cypress Tx. Posts: 19,026	Re: Interesting RUMOR: Giants-Saints in Ingram trade talks - RUMOR Originally Posted by dizzle88 If we were to trade ingram i think now is the wrong time to do it, unless we could get a guy like JPP as part of the trade If we are going to trade him i think we should do it in next years draft, get a years play out of him as I dont know who we could get that would start this year on defense Perceived value also accompanies risk. Play the hot hand, strike when the iron is hot, and all that yada... Right now it seems that due to injuries in the league Ingram could go for more than the face value of his card, wait until the off season or draft and injury could happen, better draft picks could happen, more things could happen to devalue him that increase his value. It's a gamble. Out of curiosity, why is now the wrong time?

08-31-2013, 10:50 AM	#129
dizzle88 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 11,208	Re: Interesting RUMOR: Giants-Saints in Ingram trade talks - RUMOR Originally Posted by TheOak Out of curiosity, why is now the wrong time? I just feel now is the wrong time as its a week before the start of the regular season If we got a defensive player that we wanted to make an immediate impact would they have enough time to learn rob ryans scheme or would they have to be brought along slowly. I think if we were to do it coming up to the draft next year no.1 we got a years play from ingram, no.2 if we get a player in the trade he has a full offseason and training camp with our team and no.3 like you correctly pointed out - our offense is successful due to the depth and versatility at RB, if ingram gets traded now it only takes PT to get injured and we are dangerously thin on the RB side. I think if we were to get a years play out of ingram and trade him next year it would be a safe plan, sometimes gambles pay off (ambush) and sometimes you get burned by them
	Your bonehead creator picked a fine chapter to omit from your memory bank....let me ask you, does a machine like yourself ever experience fear? - Vegeta, DBZ

08-31-2013, 10:56 AM	#130
TheOak 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Cypress Tx. Posts: 19,026	Re: Interesting RUMOR: Giants-Saints in Ingram trade talks - RUMOR Originally Posted by dizzle88 I just feel now is the wrong time as its a week before the start of the regular season If we got a defensive player that we wanted to make an immediate impact would they have enough time to learn rob ryans scheme or would they have to be brought along slowly. I think if we were to do it coming up to the draft next year no.1 we got a years play from ingram, no.2 if we get a player in the trade he has a full offseason and training camp with our team and no.3 like you correctly pointed out - our offense is successful due to the depth and versatility at RB, if ingram gets traded now it only takes PT to get injured and we are dangerously thin on the RB side. I think if we were to get a years play out of ingram and trade him next year it would be a safe plan, sometimes gambles pay off (ambush) and sometimes you get burned by them The catch to the defense is that it morphs throughout the season and into the playoffs so even our veterans are learning slightly different things week in and week out, it changes based on who we play. Who ever we get will not be off the street and while a lot of defensive coordinators claim a defensive scheme there are only a few distinctly different different defensive schemes so all a player has to learn is the calls.

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