Ingram- What do we do with him?

SloMotion · 09-16-2013, 07:33 AM

Originally Posted by Danno

You keep working with him. PT and Sproles won't last 10 weeks by themselves.

I think so, this guy has done it every level and he can do it at the NFL level. Take advantage of having the plethora of running backs the Saints do & keep handing him the rock until he comes out of his funk ... or his contract runs out.

Originally Posted by dizzle88

We should have kept joique bell, PT and sproles

Bell is doing good in detroit

... Bell is doing AWESOME in Detroit! Sent Kevin Smith packing, took over Mikel Leshoure's spot in the RB hierarchy and handled all the RB duties after Reggie Bush went down vs ARI. Yeah, he's doing great! ... but with all the backfield talent NO had at the time (and still does), he was the odd man out,

.

Originally Posted by ChrisXVI

Loomis made a horrible decision trading back into the first round to draft him. Of course hindsight is always 20/20 but it will go down as a huge draft blunder. Nobody's perfect and Loomis is no exception.

I coveted Ingram in that draft, and wanted to see the Lions draft him so he could play close to home (and they needed a running game). Whatever Loomis saw in him to trade up for, is still there, they just gotta' apply some of that famous New Orleans voodoo & bring it out. Oh yeah, he's blowing it out his arse right now, but deep down, there's an RB in there somewhere ... the kid's got the pedigree,

.

Originally Posted by Beastmode

Then why do we keep doing it? Payton had to see this going on last season yet it continues ...

... one or the other, in hopes he straightens up & flies right in order to increase his trade value or his value to the team ... he was a first round draft pick, you gotta' get something outta' him.

Final thought: He's gonna' go somewhere else & be successful ... just a hunch,

.

papz · 09-16-2013, 07:50 AM

Originally Posted by Mr.Riaton

P.Thomas-29 yds.
D.Sproles-26 yds.
M.Ingram-20 yds

Yea...your right. Thomas and Sproles are getting it done.

Its the o line's job to push the pile,NOT the RB.

People still "defend" Ingram because we all have a different point of veiw and you need to learn to respect that.

You should probably attach the YPC to that as well. Statistically, those numbers are very misleading... and you know it.

Guess that phrase is right. Stats don't lie... people use stats to lie.

halloween 65 · 09-16-2013, 08:11 AM

Ingram needs to be pushed that's all, same thing as last year. We need a headbanger to push him. Robinson might do it , C. Benson would take his job.

AllSaints · 09-16-2013, 08:15 AM

Give all the touches you give Ingram to Pierre Thomas !

Mr.Riaton · 09-16-2013, 08:23 AM

Originally Posted by papz

You should probably attach the YPC to that as well. Statistically, those numbers are very misleading... and you know it.

Guess that phrase is right. Stats don't lie... people use stats to lie.

P.Thomas-5.9
D.Sproles-3.6
M.Ingram-2.8

P.Thomas is an exception....the dude is a beast. Your right, stats can be misleading,but aren't YPC stats also? I have no idea why you think I'm using stats to lie....I'm making a point that Ingram is not all to blame here. He may not be the back we all expected him to be, but he's not as bad as some make him out to be.He had a couple decent runs, but people act like he did absolutely nothing at all. If that's the case, lets all bash Sproles for his 3.6 YPC game. Well look at that-I used a YPC stat!

TheOak · 09-16-2013, 08:23 AM

Originally Posted by Mr.Riaton

P.Thomas-29 yds.
D.Sproles-26 yds.
M.Ingram-20 yds

Yea...your right. Thomas and Sproles are getting it done.

Its the o line's job to push the pile,NOT the RB.

People still "defend" Ingram because we all have a different point of view and you need to learn to respect that.

When you have RB by committee and RBs that have versatility you should probably look at stats differently. As far as for efficiency its all about YPC.

Thomas 5.8 YPC
Sproles 3.7 YPC
Ingram 2.5 YPC

If you want to look at production per touch then you need to add receptions in there also.

Thomas 9 touches 5.3 yards per touch (48 total yards)
Sproles 13 touches 4.7 Yards per touch (62 total yards)
Ingram 8 touches 2.5 yards per touch (20 total yards)

If you want to look at total yards as you did then you should probably recognize that Ingram had more carries than either PT or Sproles and had less yards.

Thomas 5 for 29 yards
Sproles 7 for 26 yards
Ingram 8 for 20 yards

Just looking at total yards is what announcers do to make a comment more glamorous. If Ingram has 40 carries than he would have a 100 yard game... You know who gets 40 carries per game? No one. Guess who gets 30 carries per game.. No one yet this year on any team. The best running backs in the league ave 25 carries per game.

Mr.Riaton · 09-16-2013, 08:28 AM

Originally Posted by TheOak

When you have RB by committee and RBs that have versatility you should probably look at stats differently. As far as for efficiency its all about YPC.

Thomas 5.8 YPC
Sproles 3.7 YPC
Ingram 2.5 YPC

If you want to look at production per touch then you need to add receptions in there also.

Thomas 9 touches 5.3 yards per touch (48 total yards)
Sproles 13 touches 4.7 Yards per touch (62 total yards)
Ingram 8 touches 2.5 yards per touch (20 total yards)

If you want to look at total yards as you did then you should probably recognize that Ingram had more carries than either PT or Sproles and had less yards.

Thomas 5 for 29 yards
Sproles 7 for 26 yards
Ingram 8 for 20 yards

Just looking at total yards is what announcers do to make a comment more glamorous. If Ingram has 40 carries than he would have a 100 yard game... You know who gets 40 carries per game? No one. Guess who gets 30 carries per game.. No one yet this year on any team. The best running backs in the league ave 25 carries per game.

Thomas and Sproles are used in the screen and pass game. That makes a difference. If Ingram was used that way, we may have a different player on our hands.

TheOak · 09-16-2013, 08:34 AM

Originally Posted by Mr.Riaton

P.Thomas-5.9
D.Sproles-3.6
M.Ingram-2.8

P.Thomas is an exception....the dude is a beast. Your right, stats can be misleading,but aren't YPC stats also? I have no idea why you think I'm using stats to lie....I'm making a point that Ingram is not all to blame here. He may not be the back we all expected him to be, but he's not as bad as some make him out to be.He had a couple decent runs, but people act like he did absolutely nothing at all. If that's the case, lets all bash Sproles for his 3.6 YPC game. Well look at that-I used a YPC stat!

Look brother, is he horrible? No

Here are my issues with ingram:

1. We is a 1st round draft pick getting out run by Undrafted Free Agents.
2. He is "supposed" to be our punch it through short down, goal line back.. He is not getting 1st downs and he is not getting TDs.

Here is a question for you, Its the NFC Championship game, Saints 9 Falcons 14 we have ball on the 3 yard line with 5 seconds left on the clock.

Is Ingram your guy?

SaintsBro · 09-16-2013, 08:37 AM

I agreed with the original concept of Mark Ingram and why he's here -- that it's the end of 2010 and we have NO un-injured running backs left, so you get a stout bruiser back from the SEC, that you know plays against good defenses week in and week out as a workhorse back, you bring him in to complement our other backs, extend the lifespan on Brees' arm and eventually replace PT. I get THAT, it all makes perfect sense, on paper.

But it just isn't working.

Trading up to get him, which a lot of people didn't like, but again that is sort of a Payton thing that he does -- be aggressive, take your weakest weakness and not just fix it adequately, but turn it into your biggest strength. (Drafting Morstead is in that category, as is the original pickup of Drew as well.).

But again,it's NOT working.

It gets into this other psychological thing that Sean Payton does -- he senses a problem, and then he finds somebody to be THE GUY to fix it. Hartley is an example -- we had TURRIBLE luck with kickers when Payton first got here. So he went out and found Hartley, our loveable emo headcase kicker, and now Payton sticks with him even when people are calling for his head.

So whether Payton can admit that "HIS GUY" who was supposed to solve the problem, isn't working out....whether he still believes in Ingram or not....well that's another question entirely.

TheOak · 09-16-2013, 08:40 AM

Originally Posted by Mr.Riaton

Thomas and Sproles are used in the screen and pass game. That makes a difference. If Ingram was used that way, we may have a different player on our hands.

Are you saying that Sean Payton, often called one of the best play callers in the NFL has a brain fart every time it comes to Ingram?

I get that you like him and are trying but there is no silver lining. So PT is an exception in comparison.. Are all of our RBs an exception in comparison to Mark Ingram?

Mark Ingram Career: (28 games)

TDs - 10
1st downs - 59
YPC - 3.8

Chris Ivory Career: (26 games)

TDs - 8
1st Downs - 75
YPC - 4.9

09-16-2013, 07:33 AM	#61
SloMotion 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 6,776 Blog Entries: 15	Re: Ingram- What do we do with him? Originally Posted by Danno You keep working with him. PT and Sproles won't last 10 weeks by themselves. I think so, this guy has done it every level and he can do it at the NFL level. Take advantage of having the plethora of running backs the Saints do & keep handing him the rock until he comes out of his funk ... or his contract runs out. Originally Posted by dizzle88 We should have kept joique bell, PT and sproles Bell is doing good in detroit ... Bell is doing AWESOME in Detroit! Sent Kevin Smith packing, took over Mikel Leshoure's spot in the RB hierarchy and handled all the RB duties after Reggie Bush went down vs ARI. Yeah, he's doing great! ... but with all the backfield talent NO had at the time (and still does), he was the odd man out, . Originally Posted by ChrisXVI Loomis made a horrible decision trading back into the first round to draft him. Of course hindsight is always 20/20 but it will go down as a huge draft blunder. Nobody's perfect and Loomis is no exception. I coveted Ingram in that draft, and wanted to see the Lions draft him so he could play close to home (and they needed a running game). Whatever Loomis saw in him to trade up for, is still there, they just gotta' apply some of that famous New Orleans voodoo & bring it out. Oh yeah, he's blowing it out his arse right now, but deep down, there's an RB in there somewhere ... the kid's got the pedigree, . Originally Posted by Beastmode Then why do we keep doing it? Payton had to see this going on last season yet it continues ... ... one or the other, in hopes he straightens up & flies right in order to increase his trade value or his value to the team ... he was a first round draft pick, you gotta' get something outta' him. Final thought: He's gonna' go somewhere else & be successful ... just a hunch, . Danno and Mr.Riaton like this.

09-16-2013, 07:50 AM	#62
papz Problem? Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: New Orleans Posts: 11,744	Re: Ingram- What do we do with him? Originally Posted by Mr.Riaton P.Thomas-29 yds. D.Sproles-26 yds. M.Ingram-20 yds Yea...your right. Thomas and Sproles are getting it done. Its the o line's job to push the pile,NOT the RB. People still "defend" Ingram because we all have a different point of veiw and you need to learn to respect that. You should probably attach the YPC to that as well. Statistically, those numbers are very misleading... and you know it. Guess that phrase is right. Stats don't lie... people use stats to lie. pherein and WhoDat2301 like this.

09-16-2013, 08:11 AM	#63
halloween 65 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Grand Haven, Michigan by way of a little Mississippi River town in Louisiana Posts: 5,893	Re: Ingram- What do we do with him? Ingram needs to be pushed that's all, same thing as last year. We need a headbanger to push him. Robinson might do it , C. Benson would take his job.

09-16-2013, 08:15 AM	#64
AllSaints Breakin Records Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Deville, Louisiana Posts: 2,167	Re: Ingram- What do we do with him? Give all the touches you give Ingram to Pierre Thomas ! Boutte likes this.

09-16-2013, 08:23 AM	#65
Mr.Riaton 1000 Posts + Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: Broussard,La. Posts: 1,264	Re: Ingram- What do we do with him? Originally Posted by papz You should probably attach the YPC to that as well. Statistically, those numbers are very misleading... and you know it. Guess that phrase is right. Stats don't lie... people use stats to lie. P.Thomas-5.9 D.Sproles-3.6 M.Ingram-2.8 P.Thomas is an exception....the dude is a beast. Your right, stats can be misleading,but aren't YPC stats also? I have no idea why you think I'm using stats to lie....I'm making a point that Ingram is not all to blame here. He may not be the back we all expected him to be, but he's not as bad as some make him out to be.He had a couple decent runs, but people act like he did absolutely nothing at all. If that's the case, lets all bash Sproles for his 3.6 YPC game. Well look at that-I used a YPC stat!

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09-16-2013, 08:23 AM	#66
TheOak 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Cypress Tx. Posts: 19,026	Re: Ingram- What do we do with him? Originally Posted by Mr.Riaton P.Thomas-29 yds. D.Sproles-26 yds. M.Ingram-20 yds Yea...your right. Thomas and Sproles are getting it done. Its the o line's job to push the pile,NOT the RB. People still "defend" Ingram because we all have a different point of view and you need to learn to respect that. When you have RB by committee and RBs that have versatility you should probably look at stats differently. As far as for efficiency its all about YPC. Thomas 5.8 YPC Sproles 3.7 YPC Ingram 2.5 YPC If you want to look at production per touch then you need to add receptions in there also. Thomas 9 touches 5.3 yards per touch (48 total yards) Sproles 13 touches 4.7 Yards per touch (62 total yards) Ingram 8 touches 2.5 yards per touch (20 total yards) If you want to look at total yards as you did then you should probably recognize that Ingram had more carries than either PT or Sproles and had less yards. Thomas 5 for 29 yards Sproles 7 for 26 yards Ingram 8 for 20 yards Just looking at total yards is what announcers do to make a comment more glamorous. If Ingram has 40 carries than he would have a 100 yard game... You know who gets 40 carries per game? No one. Guess who gets 30 carries per game.. No one yet this year on any team. The best running backs in the league ave 25 carries per game.
	It's not what you look at that matters, it's what you see. ~ Henry David Thoreau

09-16-2013, 08:28 AM	#67
Mr.Riaton 1000 Posts + Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: Broussard,La. Posts: 1,264	Re: Ingram- What do we do with him? Originally Posted by TheOak When you have RB by committee and RBs that have versatility you should probably look at stats differently. As far as for efficiency its all about YPC. Thomas 5.8 YPC Sproles 3.7 YPC Ingram 2.5 YPC If you want to look at production per touch then you need to add receptions in there also. Thomas 9 touches 5.3 yards per touch (48 total yards) Sproles 13 touches 4.7 Yards per touch (62 total yards) Ingram 8 touches 2.5 yards per touch (20 total yards) If you want to look at total yards as you did then you should probably recognize that Ingram had more carries than either PT or Sproles and had less yards. Thomas 5 for 29 yards Sproles 7 for 26 yards Ingram 8 for 20 yards Just looking at total yards is what announcers do to make a comment more glamorous. If Ingram has 40 carries than he would have a 100 yard game... You know who gets 40 carries per game? No one. Guess who gets 30 carries per game.. No one yet this year on any team. The best running backs in the league ave 25 carries per game. Thomas and Sproles are used in the screen and pass game. That makes a difference. If Ingram was used that way, we may have a different player on our hands.

09-16-2013, 08:34 AM	#68
TheOak 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Cypress Tx. Posts: 19,026	Re: Ingram- What do we do with him? Originally Posted by Mr.Riaton P.Thomas-5.9 D.Sproles-3.6 M.Ingram-2.8 P.Thomas is an exception....the dude is a beast. Your right, stats can be misleading,but aren't YPC stats also? I have no idea why you think I'm using stats to lie....I'm making a point that Ingram is not all to blame here. He may not be the back we all expected him to be, but he's not as bad as some make him out to be.He had a couple decent runs, but people act like he did absolutely nothing at all. If that's the case, lets all bash Sproles for his 3.6 YPC game. Well look at that-I used a YPC stat! Look brother, is he horrible? No Here are my issues with ingram: 1. We is a 1st round draft pick getting out run by Undrafted Free Agents. 2. He is "supposed" to be our punch it through short down, goal line back.. He is not getting 1st downs and he is not getting TDs. Here is a question for you, Its the NFC Championship game, Saints 9 Falcons 14 we have ball on the 3 yard line with 5 seconds left on the clock. Is Ingram your guy? thebdj and WhoDat2301 like this.

09-16-2013, 08:37 AM	#69
SaintsBro Site Donor Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: in line with my ridiculous CLEAR PLASTIC BAG Posts: 3,650 Blog Entries: 3	Re: Ingram- What do we do with him? I agreed with the original concept of Mark Ingram and why he's here -- that it's the end of 2010 and we have NO un-injured running backs left, so you get a stout bruiser back from the SEC, that you know plays against good defenses week in and week out as a workhorse back, you bring him in to complement our other backs, extend the lifespan on Brees' arm and eventually replace PT. I get THAT, it all makes perfect sense, on paper. But it just isn't working. Trading up to get him, which a lot of people didn't like, but again that is sort of a Payton thing that he does -- be aggressive, take your weakest weakness and not just fix it adequately, but turn it into your biggest strength. (Drafting Morstead is in that category, as is the original pickup of Drew as well.). But again,it's NOT working. It gets into this other psychological thing that Sean Payton does -- he senses a problem, and then he finds somebody to be THE GUY to fix it. Hartley is an example -- we had TURRIBLE luck with kickers when Payton first got here. So he went out and found Hartley, our loveable emo headcase kicker, and now Payton sticks with him even when people are calling for his head. So whether Payton can admit that "HIS GUY" who was supposed to solve the problem, isn't working out....whether he still believes in Ingram or not....well that's another question entirely. TheOak likes this.

09-16-2013, 08:40 AM	#70
TheOak 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Cypress Tx. Posts: 19,026	Re: Ingram- What do we do with him? Originally Posted by Mr.Riaton Thomas and Sproles are used in the screen and pass game. That makes a difference. If Ingram was used that way, we may have a different player on our hands. Are you saying that Sean Payton, often called one of the best play callers in the NFL has a brain fart every time it comes to Ingram? I get that you like him and are trying but there is no silver lining. So PT is an exception in comparison.. Are all of our RBs an exception in comparison to Mark Ingram? Mark Ingram Career: (28 games) TDs - 10 1st downs - 59 YPC - 3.8 Chris Ivory Career: (26 games) TDs - 8 1st Downs - 75 YPC - 4.9

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