Re: Khiry Robinson runs nasty
 

It is not what yardage counts. It is what you make yardage count against.

Do you "count" the same a defense credited with 3 consecutive run stuffs for a loss during the victory formation vis a vis a defense that is credited with 3 consecutive run stuffs for a loss in a goal line stand?

In both cases, the stats say "3 consecutive run stuffs for a loss".

Re: Khiry Robinson runs nasty
 

Either way you ended the drive, I would personally think the 3 run stuffs that were not near the GL more important as in my mind they were not within field goal range. :cool:

The 3 run stuffs near the GL did keep TDs off the board but the box was a lot smaller and the play was anticipated...

Is that where you were going?:broccoli:

Re: Khiry Robinson runs nasty
 

Something to consider; Brees was the leading rusher in the game until Robinson took the snaps the rest of the way.

Re: Khiry Robinson runs nasty
 

I thought that was hilarious.

Re: Khiry Robinson runs nasty
 

Its a team, they got it done. Leave any QB in this league that much space to run and see what happens.

i am just tickled pink that it crossed his mind to run.... forward.

Re: Khiry Robinson runs nasty
 

And Ingram hasn't fumbled???

I say give KRob a chance. If he's a fumbler we need to know so we can free up a roster spot.

This isn't last year's Saints - one turnover does not equate to the D soiling itself and giving up 7 automatically.

Re: Khiry Robinson runs nasty
 

Correct. Our line does not do a very good job of pushing or creating big holes. All the more reason to have a back in the backfield that is capable of exploiting whatever space is given to him.

I'm not saying it's fair but given this is the line we have and it's not going to change much throughout the season, I want backs back there that could at least be effective from time to time rather than not all. If you look at all our backs, ingram has been the one that consistently appears ineffective. At least sproles or PT can you give flashes. With ingram, there is barely a sparkle.

Once again, the point isn't to say he's not good at all. He's just not good for our line and our scheme for whatever reasons the football gods have deemed necessary.

Re: Khiry Robinson runs nasty
 

You can't run with a hurt toe ... Let K Rob start and see if the excitement changes anything in the running game ( Like Ivory Did ) ... When Ingram Is Healthy again Ingram will Be Fresh and Sprinkle Him in on the Runs until we figure it out. Ingram gets motivated by seeing other guys shine in his spot.

Creates Competition , Let's Ingram Heal and Figure out how to fit in with the Scheme , Motivates the team , Gives reason for excitement ... Win for all Parties involved

Re: Khiry Robinson runs nasty
 

Like to see him early in the rotation with PT, then make a decision.

Re: Khiry Robinson runs nasty
 

Someone has to sit to allow a RB to play.. I am not going to give up a extra defensive player, a lineman, a WR so Ingram can find his motivation.

Not willing to give those players up as thin as we are in some spots.

Re: Khiry Robinson runs nasty
 

You either are trolling me, or missed the "victory formation" part :)

Re: Khiry Robinson runs nasty
 

A running back also needs to understand blitz pick ups. This has been the downfall of many a running back (see LaGarrette Blount)

If Payton feels that Robinson doesn't know who to pick up and when, then he shouldn't be in the game. The reward of having a running back that can average 4 to 5 yards a carry would be nothing if Drew were to be injured by a linebacker going untouched.

That could also explain whey Robinson didn't come in until we stopped passing.

Re: Khiry Robinson runs nasty
 

True- plus they had given up before then.
It was ironic that we could not run for sh** all day, but when Ariz knew we were going to run we actually were successful

Glad we rested some starters late- Graham, Greer, Grubbs and a few others were out after the last score

Re: Khiry Robinson runs nasty
 

I like this Robinson guy oevr Ingram because he gained decent yardage more than once in the game. The other runs (of decent yardage) was like an extra shot of Southern Comfort on the house

Re: Khiry Robinson runs nasty
 

Neither... Loaded on sinus medicine today... Sorry if I misunderstood.

Re: Khiry Robinson runs nasty
 

I wish they would have gave Robinson the ball at the end of the first half. Up by 7, at you're own 4 yard line, the Cardinals only having 1 timeout and with 1:30 on the clock, it would have made sense all around. Having Brees throw out of the endzone in that situation was a formula for disaster. Run the ball, use up the clock, go to the half with a 7 point lead, and come out getting the ball to open the 2nd half. Bad coaching that Payton got away with.

Re: Khiry Robinson runs nasty
 

Seems the problem is giving the ball to an UDFA... albeit that is exactly how the legend of PT was born.

Re: Khiry Robinson runs nasty
 

Jamarcus, is that you?

Re: Khiry Robinson runs nasty
 

And have him fumble on the 4, and have Arizona tie the game? No thanks. Sorry, that would be an absolutely terrible coaching move, to give the ball to an undrafted rookie who has NEVER PLAYED A SNAP IN A REAL FOOTBALL GAME BEFORE, in that situation, on your own 4 yard line like that.They would be ripping his head off, trying to stand him up and strip the ball. Putting him in at the end of the game was LOW RISK HIGH REWARD, and I'm sorry but that is good coaching. Putting Khiry in on the 4 yard line is HIGH RISK LOW REWARD, the exact opposite of what kind of situations you want to put him in.

Re: Khiry Robinson runs nasty
 

I didn't understand the timeouts, offensively or on D. From our 9, we call timeout. Ariz is driving, and we are stopping the clock.
Ohh, and why did we keep the KO in play after the second TD? Ariz had 1 TO left.

Re: Khiry Robinson runs nasty
 

I don't understand how anyone could be excited about the "performance" Robinson put out in the last, meaningless drive of a game that was over 2 series before. Would my grandmother gotten the same level of props, because she's dead and I know she could have hit the holes just as fast.

Further, all you MI haters are transparently twofaced when presented the facts that neither Sproles nor PI could run in any game this season either.

Face it, it's an o-line and scheme problem, not an RB problem. For some reason that escapes Payton and his staff, nobody, NOBODY is fooled by our pitiful excuses for disguises of run plays.

Re: Khiry Robinson runs nasty
 

2013
Pierre Thomas - 4.0 ypa
Darren Sproles - 3.6 ypa
Mark Ingram - 1.8 ypa
Your grandma - no carries

2012
Pierre Thomas - 4.5 ypa
Darren Sproles - 5.1 ypa
Mark Ingram - 3.9 ypa
Your grandma - no carries

2011
Pierre Thomas - 5.1 ypa
Darren Sproles - 6.9 ypa
Mark Ingram 3.9 ypa
Your grandma - no carries.

I think the problem may be your grandma.

Re: Khiry Robinson runs nasty
 

The Lions just called -- I think they want to sign your grandma.

Re: Khiry Robinson runs nasty
 

Not cool to talk bad about the dead.. I believe that Khiry just gives us hope kinda like a shiny new toy when your tired of the old one. Khiry may fall short like MI but I like others want togive him tthat chance.

Re: Khiry Robinson runs nasty
 

Are these stats through 3 games of each season?

Re: Khiry Robinson runs nasty
 

Payton is taking baby steps with Khiry and it's good coaching. He now has some successful garbage time action. Perhaps the next step is just to throw him in for a carry or two in power sets in the first or second quarter as a quick change of pace. See how he does. Then try him in a few short-yardage situations and see how he responds. Then if he does well, start using him more frequently in the first half and power-run with him on first and second downs until we reach a third down, then switch to PT/Sproles for the rest of the drive. Toward the end of the season, begin to slowly find out if he can catch and pass-protect. That is essentially what we did with Ivory from what I remember.

Re: Khiry Robinson runs nasty
 

2011 and 12 are entire seasons. 2013 is just the first two games. It's pretty easy to get those first 3 games of the season but I need to at least pretend I'm working. I'll get those numbers later.

Re: Khiry Robinson runs nasty
 

Just my opinion,
I think pass protection comes first. If we only bring him in to run the ball, every team will stack the box against him. I think that's part of Ingram's problem. And if he can't pass protect when he's supposed to, then we don't want him back there.

Re: Khiry Robinson runs nasty
 

They are all rookies at one time, drafted or not and the sooner you put it in their hands to see them in action the better. If it was 4th and inches with the game on the line I had rather put it in someones hands before pass but that's just me I like smash mouth football. Either way you make it or you don't, rookie or vet. I say play the guy now!!

Re: Khiry Robinson runs nasty
 

What took the Saints so look to put him in the game

Re: Khiry Robinson runs nasty
 

You guys are vastly overthinking this.

Garbage time, not garbage time, this doesn't really matter. What really matters is what Robinson did with his limited touches, independent of anything else.

First carry: Run right, Khiry takes the handoff, sees there's nothing for him, sidesteps a little to the left. Mind you, he does all this in less than a second. Puts his head down, gets a few yards and makes something out of nothing. Whether the defense is gassed here or not is irrelevant; I suspect that if it had been in the second quarter with the score 7-7 it still would've been pretty much the same result.

Second carry: Run left, hits the hole hard, not much resistance but he shows a ton of speed here and really does a good job of using his blockers downfield to maximize the run.

Third carry: Run right. Again not a lot of resistance from the defensive line, but he breaks through the line quick, stiff-arms a safety down and drags a DB with him for a few extra yards.

Fourth carry: Run right, pretty much identical to the first carry, he cuts back against the grain. (This is pretty much PT's trademark move and is like 80% of the reason he is such a good back.) Robinson essentially makes 3 yards out of what should've been a 1 yard loss. He puts his head down, wriggles through one tackler and then absolutely destroys a linebacker to finish off the run.


To me, carries 1 and 4 are the most telling. You cannot say those runs were the result of bad defense. They were actually good defensive plays and it was only because of Robinson's creativity and instincts that they ended up being positive gains.

The problem with Ingram is not his size, speed, height or anything like that. It's his lack of instinct. You either have it or you don't. PT has it. Robinson has it. Deuce had it, then his legs gave out and he didn't have the physical ability to do what he wanted to anymore.

But Ingram definitely doesn't have it. I have NEVER seen Ingram cut back on a run in three years. If somebody thinks that makes me a hater, then I can live with that. The truth is I don't "hate" anybody but it is not hard to see why our other backs are successful while Ingram is not.

Re: Khiry Robinson runs nasty
 

True.
He got some touches against a beaten second string D at the end of a blowout.

Let's give Payton a little credit; I think he knows our depth chart. Our top backs generated -6 yards rushing in the first half, but he still didn't put Robinson in. That tells me all I need to know.

Maybe he is the future, but right now he is serviceable as a 4th back and might have earned a jersey for next week.

PS- Cadet looked good on ST

Re: Khiry Robinson runs nasty
 

Then you proceed to over-think it yourself.
It does matter.
Again, I go to my example:
When a team runs the victory formation at the end of the game and the QB takes a knee, that counts as a running play, and counts as a defensive stop for a 2 yard loss. Is that the same as a 2 yard loss on a goal line stand? I don't think so.

Re: Khiry Robinson runs nasty
 

While I agree it matters the situation he was in, I also believe if that had been ingram he wouldn't have done as well. So ultimately, the point remains that we think Krob is better. Only way to prove it is to give him some touches.

Re: Khiry Robinson runs nasty
 

How so? I am simply showing you what Robinson does that is good; if a baseball player has a really good swing, then he can probably hit home runs off of good pitchers too, not just bad ones. Does Robinson have a good swing? Sure looks like it from what we've seen.

This analogy makes less than zero sense. I have re-read this sentence at least five times and I am still like "WTF is he talking about?" The two situations have absolutely nothing in common, except they are both things that take place on a football field.

Re: Khiry Robinson runs nasty
 

And Shiano doesn't recognize one of them LOL.

Re: Khiry Robinson runs nasty
 

Obviously the coaching staff have their reasons for not starting KRob or playing him more right now. These are reasons none of us could know but it's easy for us fans to speculate. Majority on this board wished we would have traded Ingram instead of Ivory but where is Ivory at now? Hamstring injury again. Of course with Ingram also being injured that's not much of an argument but the point is the coaching staff and Loomis have their reasons for what they do and I think we just need to trust their decisions.

Re: Khiry Robinson runs nasty
 

Here's my theory.. Khiry will get more playing time this Monday to let the staff know if they should or shouldn't go through with the trade or whatnot.

Me personally believe opportunity is opportunity. Especially when ur that 4th or 3rd guy trying to get noticed. Its how you earn your stripes and you are gonna start off small especially if you weren't a high draft pick. So those of you debating whether it mattered or not. It's just a taste of what may come. Just like preaeason.. Opportunity.

Re: Khiry Robinson runs nasty
 

In the first three games of 2011
Pierre Thomas carried the ball 21 times for 100 yards for an average of 4.8 yards per carry
Darren Sproles carried the ball 8 times for 59 yards for an average of 7.3 yards per carry
Mark Ingram carried the ball 36 times for 129 yards for an average of 3.6 yards per carry

In the first three games of 2012
Pierre Thomas carried the ball 19 times for 121 yards for an average of 7.2 yards per carry
Darren Sproles carried the ball 7 times for 62 yards for an average of 8.9 yards per carry
Mark Ingram carried the ball 28 times for 79 yards for an average of 2.8 yards per carry

Re: Khiry Robinson runs nasty
 

But do you have the stats on what personnel the defenses were playing? That's what most of us are missing out on. I'm willing to bet the first beer that Ingram faces more base defense with the front 7 made up of DL and LB's and also a safety in the box compared to the rest facing nickle and dime packages that employ more smaller DB's.