Re: Khiry Robinson runs nasty
 

Video of him...

Runs hard and is great catching balls out of the backfield. If he can stay healthy we have a diamond in the rough here.

Re: Khiry Robinson runs nasty
 

Nope, I don't have that info.

I'd be willing to bet your right.

Re: Khiry Robinson runs nasty
 

Ok so he gets more base defense... Settled.

What do we do? Get a RB that can get it done regardless or ask the opponent to not run Base Defense with 7 man front? Don't run at all if we see 7 up front?

I prefer to think he had an aggravated injury than he is rather useless against a seven man front. .

Re: Khiry Robinson runs nasty
 

Last season Ingram lined up for 268 offensive snaps. Of those he rushed the ball 156 times. That's 58% of the time he came off the bench, he rushed the ball. That's the highest percentage in the NFL (of the 59 half backs with over 200 carries). Other than Ingram, only Stevan Ridley of the Patriots was over 50%.

Rush/Snap %
1 Mark Ingram 58.2%
2 Stevan Ridley 51.8%
3 Jammal Charles 47.9%
4 Bernard Pierce 47.6%
5 Shonn Green 47.3%

The league average was 34% for that same set of backs.

More than any other back in the NFL, if Mark Ingram was in, the play was likely to be a run. And with those kinds of percentages, it's logical to assume that defenses were told to play the run whenever number 28 was on the field.

(posted back in June)

Re: Khiry Robinson runs nasty
 

I just don't understand how anybody can have watched Ingram for two years and sees anything more than an average (at best) RB.

And the "every time he comes it's a run" arguement goes right out the window when look at what Ivory did when given a chance because it was the same situation for him.

Re: Khiry Robinson runs nasty
 

Even moreso. The percentage of rushing plays when Ivory was in the game was something like 8 percent higher than Ingram, IIRC. There was a very good thread about this on Footballguys or Rotoworld a while back, illuminating stuff.

Re: Khiry Robinson runs nasty
 

That is what happens when that is all you can do. Should we let him punt?

Re: Khiry Robinson runs nasty
 

The thread I mentioned earlier: Saints use of Mark Ingram borders on criminal - Page 3 - The Shark Pool (NFL Talk) - Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums

Highlights:

Not a pretty picture... top 10 carries/snaps for RB with more than 18 snaps + Ingram @ 18
Snps Carries PCT YPC
mathews 20 13 0.650 2.5
cj2k 43 25 0.581 2.8
williams 31 17 0.548 5.1
f jax 26 13 0.500 5.2
ingram 18 9 0.500 1.2
mccoy 65 31 0.477 5.9
spiller 37 17 0.459 2.4
mendenhall 35 16 0.457 3.8
tate 20 9 0.450 6.1
charles 36 16 0.444 4.8

For his career, Ivory is averaging an astonishing 5.1 yards per carry (compared to the 3.9 of Ingram) despite the fact that when he's in the game it's a telltale sign the Saints are running (74.9 percent of his snaps were on running plays), letting the offense key in on him.

I am not lamenting that we traded away Ivory, but when you see he still managed over 5.1 yards a carry even though his carry-to-snap ratio is a full 15% higher than Ingram (74 vs. 59), the "Ingram always faces 8 man fronts" argument becomes pretty much indefensible.

Re: Khiry Robinson runs nasty
 

Any videos of Khiry running vs Cards

Re: Khiry Robinson runs nasty
 

Do you know how to do torrents?

Every week for the last 4-5 years I download games from tenyardtorrents.com to watch/study. They have some kinda tricky rules about how much you are supposed to upload vs. download but it's absolutely the best way to get game footage.

Re: Khiry Robinson runs nasty
 

Who is saying anything about Ingram? Where did I mention Ingram?

Re: Khiry Robinson runs nasty
 

Here's a beauty.

Re: Khiry Robinson runs nasty
 

And really, in the grand scheme of things, Pierre Thomas, Darren Sproles and Chris Ivory all had more yards per carry than Ingram.

Maybe we're not using Ingram right. Maybe he needs 20+ carries per game. Maybe he needs to get more involved in the passing game. Maybe he needs to run outside the tackles or sweeps more.

But in the end does it really matter what the cause is? Predictability, poor blocking, injury, strong headwinds, what ever the reason, the bottom line is, it's just not working.

Re: Khiry Robinson runs nasty
 

And that's great and all, but if you didn't notice, PT and Sproles did that as well and much more, and couldn't gain a yard the first half. Now going against a defeated, tired defense that's just going through the motions waiting for the game to end, yeah, anyone can look good.

Really? Both situations have nothing in common?
Both a 2 yard loss during a goal line stand and a kneel down count as a running play for a 2 yard loss. But the situations are rather different, right? During the goal line stand, especially when the game is tied or close, the defense is trying their hardest to stop the TD; during the victory formation, the defense stands up and touches the guys in front of them.

Do you see it now?

Just like you wouldn't give the same credit to a defense for stopping the run during a victory formation, I don't give credit to a RB who comes in after the fight, against a defense that's defeated, tired, and just wants to see the clock hit 00:00 so they can take a shower and go home.

Re: Khiry Robinson runs nasty
 

Re: Khiry Robinson runs nasty
 

Watches the gif over and over.

Re: Khiry Robinson runs nasty
 

He reminds me a lot of PT the way he puts his hand down and cuts.

Re: Khiry Robinson runs nasty
 

And this is why I specifically pointed out carries 1 and 4 (Q4, 4:26 and Q4, 2:14).

These were both situations where the defense had all the gaps covered and the flow of the play was stopped, yet Robinson made something out of it anyway. Those plays had nothing to do with the defense being tired.

If Robinson had simply run through a couple of weak arm tackles, I might agree with you. But those plays were about his instincts and ability to find a hole that didn't exist relative to the original play call.

He reminds me of both PT and Ivory in different ways. PT for the way he kind of shimmies his way around a tackle to get a couple of extra yards, same way Deuce used to do it too. And Ivory for the way he gets going so fast. Two steps and he's at full speed before he even hits the line.

I think the kid has the total package. The two big questions are, can he stay healthy, and can he block? Those are the two things that kept Ivory from becoming a much bigger part of the offense than he ended up being.

Re: Khiry Robinson runs nasty
 

Lets recap Khiry Robinsons tenure with the Saints according to a % of fans.

Preseason - "He was running against second string defenses."
Chiefs 12-52 4.3 AVE
Raiders 10-50 5.0 AVE
Texans 5-11 2.1 AVE
Dolphins 22-115 5.2 AVE

Regular Season - "The opponent gave up"
Cardinals 4-38 yards 9.5 AVE 21-Long

Now the rationalization that Khiry Robinson didn't get carries in weeks 1-2 and until the 4th Qtr because Sean Payton doesn't have faith in him.

1. Does anyone think Robinson would be on this team if Sean Payton didn't have any faith in him? Wouldn't it have been a whole lot easier to keep Cadet and give Robinson's roster spot to another position if Sean didnt think he could get it done?

2. I don't think Robinson or Cadet ran in weeks 1-2 because Sean was giving Ingram his chance to prove him self. That chance only goes so far when it hinders our running game.

Now lets look at that SECOND HALF (score S14-C7) and not the 4th Qtr., after 1/2 time adjustments against Arizona when they were "gassed and tired and defeated". I cant wait for these excuses..

Pierre Thomas - 8/33 4.1 AVE
Khiry Robinson - 4/38 9.5 AVE
Darren Sproles - 3/17 5.6 AVE

So the Cardinals gave up at the 1/2 only 1 TD behind and that's why we were able to run? Even if you cut Robins AVE in half he AVE 4.75 YPC.

Let it go... He ran just as well as PT and Sproles in the Second half even with his production cut in half. Khiry Robin is good and he can run, the only questions i have is can he stay healthy and can he keep the ball secure; so far he has not proven he cant do both... No less than any of our other RBs.

Re: Khiry Robinson runs nasty
 

He also needs to know his pass protections and blitz pick ups. I think that might be the biggest reason why he hasn't gotten into games yet. The offensive line is having enough trouble as it is.

Re: Khiry Robinson runs nasty
 

Actually Ivory is down to 4.9 now since he is only averaging 2.8 this year and oh by the way out with a hamstring injury.

Re: Khiry Robinson runs nasty
 

And that imo is the main reason why we traded him. I had absolutely no problem at all with the trade. In fact just about every player we have parted ways with has had their production drop off our wound up injured. Looks like we know when to trade.

Re: Khiry Robinson runs nasty
 

Maybe, but Vilma, Smith, Ellis, and a few others that past their prime needed to go a lot sooner but someone in the Saints front office looked at them like they do an old worn out pair of shoes and kept them around for sentimental value. He!! Vilma and Smith made the team this year both should have been long gone 2 years ago. Not so sure we know when to trade or let go, the jury is still out for me on that issue!!

Re: Khiry Robinson runs nasty
 

.......... sigh

Re: Khiry Robinson runs nasty
 

Why are people assuming the Cardinals defense was tired or gassed at the end? Up 'til then we had only one drive all day that was double-digit plays, everything else was actually pretty quick strikes or our famous three and outs.

Re: Khiry Robinson runs nasty
 

Ive no clue... The assumption is that the 3rd ranked rushing defense got too tired to play and gave up.

Re: Khiry Robinson runs nasty
 

So can we assume Robinson is that much better a RB than both PT and Sproles and should be starting immediately?

Re: Khiry Robinson runs nasty
 

Time of possession was 35:31 for the Saints & 24:29 for Cards. KRob didn't enter the game until there was under 5 minutes left so that means their defense was already on the field more than 50% of the time and also it was 31-7. Maybe they gave up a little or wasn't playing as hard but clearly they were not the same looking defense the first 3 qtrs.

Re: Khiry Robinson runs nasty
 

Should we continue to assume that Mark Ingram is a better back than PT and Sproles and should continue to start when he is consistently out performed by EVERY running back on our roster?

Re: Khiry Robinson runs nasty
 

One question:

Do you think Ingram would have had the same success with those same carries?

Re: Khiry Robinson runs nasty
 

Hard to say, but in the first half no back had success but they did in the second half is all I'm saying. Granted KRob didn't have a shot in the first half.
My opinion is just not to get too excited about some good runs at the end of the game and declare KRob the starter when we don't know if he can handle all the responsibilities that comes with it. He is young and may not know all of the playbook with the way Brees calls audibles and changes protections. It's a big jump from West Texas A&M to NFL play calling.

Re: Khiry Robinson runs nasty
 

Who is talking about Ingram? Where did I mention Ingram in any of my posts? Why do people keep replying to me with anything to say about Ingram?

Re: Khiry Robinson runs nasty
 

Don't think anybody is saying that. BUT, I have a very hard time believing Ingram would come up with those same kind of gains in that same situation.

That's not an Ingram bash, I'm only talking about him in terms of the depth chart. For that matter I am not as enamored with Sproles in terms of conventional running back carries, I don't think he's all that hot between the tackles.

Considering how bad our run game has been, I think it's reasonable to give the guy a shot.

Re: Khiry Robinson runs nasty
 

... and again with Ingram. Why do people keep replying to me with any mention of Ingram, is a mystery to me.

Re: Khiry Robinson runs nasty
 

Because Ingram is the guy he is presumbly most in competition with for playing time as the between-the-tackles runner in this offense, of course. Because he is the guy who got in the game when Ingram was hurt. Because Ingram is averaging less than 2 yards per carry and it is reasonable that the coaches might just be looking elsewhere for someone to fill that role.

I would think the reasons would be fairly obvious at this point. Don't take it personal, it's just the reality of the situation.

Re: Khiry Robinson runs nasty
 

What the heck are you talking about? Seriously... I am not taking anything personal... I posted about Robinson, and how I did not think what Robinson did was that impressive given the circumstances. Why do you insist on bringing up Ingram?

My guess is, in your mind, I am somehow putting Robinson down because I favor Ingram, and that is why I stated I wasn't impressed with what Robinson did? Is that it?

Re: Khiry Robinson runs nasty
 

Ok! Everybody just calm down!!! Stop yell-posting!!!

Re: Khiry Robinson runs nasty
 

Actually, no. I was just talking about the topic at hand.

Am I supposed to pay close attention to who I am responding to and take care not to mention certain players that may rub them the wrong way? Sorry, dude, but I have neither the time or inclination. I don't want to get pissy with you but that's just what it is.

To wit, it is practically impossible to talk about whether or not Khiry Robinson deserves playing time without also talking about his immediate competition on the depth chart. This is not a terribly difficult concept to grasp.

Re: Khiry Robinson runs nasty
 

Yes. Shawn Payton......

Re: Khiry Robinson runs nasty
 

12 pages and 119 replies later and the Thread title still stands.


Khiry Robinson runs nasty.

FWIW, I did not see too many moments when he ran that he looked like he was checking anyone on our offensive lines prostate.

This is his 21 yard run, what I watched for was to see if the Cardinals defense looked gassed or gave up... E.G. Our offensive line reset the line of scrimmage within 2s of the snap (pushed it forward 2 yards). We didnt, the Cards defense is all over our backfield on this play, same as when everyone else runs. No more excuses about the line preforming better or the Cards giving up, their line beat us on this play and Khiry Robinson beat their defense. The line of scrimmage is the 45 and only DLP stood his man up, the rest of our offensive line was 3 yards behind the line of scrimmage as usual.