The Definitive 'It' Article

WhoDat · 10-10-2004, 09:47 AM

Anybody remember the "it" argument from last year. Certain members of this board argued that "it" was an important factor, others said that there is no such thing as "it". Well, you decide:

http://msn.foxsports.com/story/3059636?GT1=5377

Whatever 'It' is, Brady has 'It'
Paul Attner / Sporting News

A couple of quotes I found interesting:

"It is leadership, poise, judgment, competitiveness, an edge," says John Dorsey, the Packers' director of college scouting. "You know It is there, but can you find It? When you do, you eventually will get the trophy. But the search drives us crazy."

Seems like some of us have made this exact argument in the past. I guess you know when It isn't there too. ;)

When Randy Mueller was general manager of the Saints, he scouted Tom Brady.

"Skinny kid, average arm, average athlete, average physical skills," says Mueller, now an ESPN analyst. "Not much there. None of us saw It."

But Mueller has looked at Brady again this season, evaluating him as if he were scouting for the draft. He is mesmerized by the change.

"I use three elements to measure success by quarterbacks in this league," Schwartz says. "One is intangibles -- leadership, knowledge of game, work ethic, competitiveness. Two, does he make the right decisions? Every coverage has strengths and weaknesses. Does he recognize the coverage, does he move the ball around, how does he handle the blitz? Three, can he throw an accurate pass after he makes the decision, and put it where I can catch it? That is different from throwing it through a wall or breaking someone's hand with your velocity. It's touch. If you can't get past these three things, you can't play quarterback in the NFL. You are screwed. And Tom Brady is three for three."

So how does AB rank? I know BMG, 08, and Gator will laugh when they see this. Here we have argued that AB has physical gifts for years, but is short on 1) intangibles, 2) decision-making, and 3) throws laser-shots when he should use touch. We've been blasted. Agree or disagree with the assesssment of AB, at least we were right on concerning what's important... unless of course you want to disagree with the Patties staff about that.

I can't wait for the standard agenda post. In 5... 4... 3... 2...

saintfan · 10-10-2004, 10:24 AM

\"IT\" is an agenda Whodat. You have it too? LMAO

How far do we think \"it\" will take Delhomme and the panthers this year? \"it\" hasn\'t done much for \'em yet. How many INT\'s has Jake thrown so far this year? Since he clearly has \"it\" is it safe to assume those INT\'s are the result of bad luck? Oh wait, there no such thing, so I guess it must be his decision making.

WhoDat · 10-10-2004, 10:53 AM

Good job, and right on que. Expert use of agenda and a nice skirt and twist of the issue.

Let\'s try it this way oh wise one. On a scale of 1-10, how would you rate AB in the following categories and why?

1. leadership
2. poise
3. judgment
4. competitiveness
5. knowledge of game
6. work ethic
7. decision-making
8. ability to read coverages
9. touch
10. accuracy

Come on Saintfan - show me that AB ranks well in those categories. I didn\'t right the article, but it does make a point that many of us have made time and again.

My bet - you don\'t directly answer any one of those and fall back on your, nuh uh b/c you have an agenda argument. Transparent...

saintfan · 10-10-2004, 11:48 AM

What is it with you and polls? Isn\'t it sufficient to say that \"it\" really doesn\'t matter if you can\'t block, don\'t have a running game, and your defense can\'t stop anybody? Again, this has been my whole point...for YEARS...and you STILL don\'t get it. I\'m starting to think you\'re slow...I already know you have an agenda.

Funny how you ALWAYS fall back on bashing Brooks. The point I\'m trying to make is much was made by you and 08 and Gator, etc about this \"it\" thing, but \"it\" matters very little when you having nothing to go with \"it\" huh? Don\'t take my word. Looks at the Panthers for your answer.

1. 8
2. 8
3. 8
4. 10
5. 9
6. 10
7. 8
8. 8
9, 7
10. 7

Above average for your self-proclaimed Pro-Bowler I\'d say, but then how do we qualify these numbers? We can\'t can we? Your rankings will further expose your agenda. Or rather will it expose your general wishy washyness? How would YOU rate Mr. Brooks? Careful...the moonshiners are watching.

WhoDat · 10-12-2004, 01:39 PM

1. leadership - 4
2. poise - 3
3. judgment - 3
4. competitiveness - 3
5. knowledge of game - 1
6. work ethic - 3
7. decision-making - 2
8. ability to read coverages - 2
9. touch - 0
10. accuracy - 4

Anybody else care to chime in? Apparently, according to Saintfan, the Saints have no talent to go with AB\'s Pro Bowl skills. No line, no RB, no WRs, no TEs... all the talent on this team must be on the 31st ranked defense side of the ball. LMAO!!

saintfan · 10-12-2004, 01:46 PM

You lie. Simply put. I challenge you, RIGHT NOW, to find an instance where I said Brooks would be a pro bowl QB. I know right where to find where YOU said that tho. spin spin spin...as usual.

Our line simply doesn\'t \"excel\" no matter how you spin it.

Our RB has 4 fumbles (3 lost), one returned for a TD so far. THAT one cost us last Sunday\'s game.

Our WR\'s drop catchable passes. Period. You disagree?

Our TE\'s don\'t block very well a\'tall and have the dropsies just like our WR\'s do.

Does ANY of this give Brooks a pass on mistakes. No. Does ALL of this point to your agenda. Yup. Why else would you be so focused on Brooks? CLEARLY. LMAO

saintfan · 10-12-2004, 01:48 PM

I\'m a bit curious to know why you\'d rate Brooks so low after having said he\'s a pro-bowl QB. Fippity Flop, flippity flop...etc, etc.

Maybe this is all bout the \"it\" thing and Jakes 1-3 record. hmmmmm...

:rollinglaugh:

BlackandBlue · 10-12-2004, 01:51 PM

1. leadership - 4
2. poise - 7
3. judgment - 6
4. competitiveness - 7
5. knowledge of game - 5
6. work ethic - 8
7. decision-making - 7
8. ability to read coverages - 2
9. touch - 3
10. accuracy - 8

I believe this would be accurate.

BrooksMustGo · 10-12-2004, 02:29 PM

1. leadership - 4
2. poise - 7
3. judgment - 6
4. competitiveness - 7
5. knowledge of game - 5
6. work ethic - 8
7. decision-making - 7
8. ability to read coverages - 2
9. touch - 3
10. accuracy - 8

1. leadership - 5
2. poise - 6
3. judgment - 5
4. competitiveness - 7
5. knowledge of game - 4
6. work ethic - 8 I think he is always conditioned well, I\'m not very confident about his ability to break down film, but then I\'m not there.
7. decision-making - 4 Running out of bounds when we\'re trying to kill the clock hurts him here.
8. ability to read coverages - 2
9. touch - 1
10. accuracy - on timed routes - 4, if WR\'s have time to separate - 8

I\'d add
11. Ability to work with the O-line - 2 (by this I mean not backing out of the protection)
12. Sandlot play - 9

2SAINTS04 · 10-12-2004, 03:40 PM

1. leadership-5
2. poise-7
3. judgement-7
4. competitiveness-8
5. knowledge of game-6
6. work ethic-8
7. decision making-7
8. ability to read coverages-5
9. touch-4
10. accuracy-8

10-10-2004, 09:47 AM	#1
WhoDat 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,631	The Definitive 'It' Article Anybody remember the "it" argument from last year. Certain members of this board argued that "it" was an important factor, others said that there is no such thing as "it". Well, you decide: http://msn.foxsports.com/story/3059636?GT1=5377 Whatever 'It' is, Brady has 'It' Paul Attner / Sporting News A couple of quotes I found interesting: "It is leadership, poise, judgment, competitiveness, an edge," says John Dorsey, the Packers' director of college scouting. "You know It is there, but can you find It? When you do, you eventually will get the trophy. But the search drives us crazy." Seems like some of us have made this exact argument in the past. I guess you know when It isn't there too. ;) When Randy Mueller was general manager of the Saints, he scouted Tom Brady. "Skinny kid, average arm, average athlete, average physical skills," says Mueller, now an ESPN analyst. "Not much there. None of us saw It." But Mueller has looked at Brady again this season, evaluating him as if he were scouting for the draft. He is mesmerized by the change. "I use three elements to measure success by quarterbacks in this league," Schwartz says. "One is intangibles -- leadership, knowledge of game, work ethic, competitiveness. Two, does he make the right decisions? Every coverage has strengths and weaknesses. Does he recognize the coverage, does he move the ball around, how does he handle the blitz? Three, can he throw an accurate pass after he makes the decision, and put it where I can catch it? That is different from throwing it through a wall or breaking someone's hand with your velocity. It's touch. If you can't get past these three things, you can't play quarterback in the NFL. You are screwed. And Tom Brady is three for three." So how does AB rank? I know BMG, 08, and Gator will laugh when they see this. Here we have argued that AB has physical gifts for years, but is short on 1) intangibles, 2) decision-making, and 3) throws laser-shots when he should use touch. We've been blasted. Agree or disagree with the assesssment of AB, at least we were right on concerning what's important... unless of course you want to disagree with the Patties staff about that. I can't wait for the standard agenda post. In 5... 4... 3... 2...
WhoDat 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,631

10-10-2004, 10:24 AM	#2
saintfan Donated Plasma Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: San Francisco, CA Posts: 18,556 Blog Entries: 5	The Definitive 'It' Article \"IT\" is an agenda Whodat. You have it too? LMAO How far do we think \"it\" will take Delhomme and the panthers this year? \"it\" hasn\'t done much for \'em yet. How many INT\'s has Jake thrown so far this year? Since he clearly has \"it\" is it safe to assume those INT\'s are the result of bad luck? Oh wait, there no such thing, so I guess it must be his decision making.

10-10-2004, 10:53 AM	#3
WhoDat 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,631	The Definitive 'It' Article Good job, and right on que. Expert use of agenda and a nice skirt and twist of the issue. Let\'s try it this way oh wise one. On a scale of 1-10, how would you rate AB in the following categories and why? 1. leadership 2. poise 3. judgment 4. competitiveness 5. knowledge of game 6. work ethic 7. decision-making 8. ability to read coverages 9. touch 10. accuracy Come on Saintfan - show me that AB ranks well in those categories. I didn\'t right the article, but it does make a point that many of us have made time and again. My bet - you don\'t directly answer any one of those and fall back on your, nuh uh b/c you have an agenda argument. Transparent...
WhoDat 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,631	\"Excuses, excuses, excuses. ThatÃ¢Â€Â™s all anyone ever makes for the New Orleans SaintsÃ¢Â€Â™ organization.\" - Eric Narcisse \"Being a Saints fan is almost like being addicted to crack,\" he said.[i]\"You know you should stop, but you just can\'t.\"

10-10-2004, 11:48 AM	#4
saintfan Donated Plasma Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: San Francisco, CA Posts: 18,556 Blog Entries: 5	The Definitive 'It' Article What is it with you and polls? Isn\'t it sufficient to say that \"it\" really doesn\'t matter if you can\'t block, don\'t have a running game, and your defense can\'t stop anybody? Again, this has been my whole point...for YEARS...and you STILL don\'t get it. I\'m starting to think you\'re slow...I already know you have an agenda. Funny how you ALWAYS fall back on bashing Brooks. The point I\'m trying to make is much was made by you and 08 and Gator, etc about this \"it\" thing, but \"it\" matters very little when you having nothing to go with \"it\" huh? Don\'t take my word. Looks at the Panthers for your answer. 1. 8 2. 8 3. 8 4. 10 5. 9 6. 10 7. 8 8. 8 9, 7 10. 7 Above average for your self-proclaimed Pro-Bowler I\'d say, but then how do we qualify these numbers? We can\'t can we? Your rankings will further expose your agenda. Or rather will it expose your general wishy washyness? How would YOU rate Mr. Brooks? Careful...the moonshiners are watching.
	C'mon Man...

10-12-2004, 01:39 PM	#5
WhoDat 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,631	The Definitive 'It' Article 1. leadership - 4 2. poise - 3 3. judgment - 3 4. competitiveness - 3 5. knowledge of game - 1 6. work ethic - 3 7. decision-making - 2 8. ability to read coverages - 2 9. touch - 0 10. accuracy - 4 Anybody else care to chime in? Apparently, according to Saintfan, the Saints have no talent to go with AB\'s Pro Bowl skills. No line, no RB, no WRs, no TEs... all the talent on this team must be on the 31st ranked defense side of the ball. LMAO!!
WhoDat 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,631

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10-12-2004, 01:46 PM	#6
saintfan Donated Plasma Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: San Francisco, CA Posts: 18,556 Blog Entries: 5	The Definitive 'It' Article You lie. Simply put. I challenge you, RIGHT NOW, to find an instance where I said Brooks would be a pro bowl QB. I know right where to find where YOU said that tho. spin spin spin...as usual. Our line simply doesn\'t \"excel\" no matter how you spin it. Our RB has 4 fumbles (3 lost), one returned for a TD so far. THAT one cost us last Sunday\'s game. Our WR\'s drop catchable passes. Period. You disagree? Our TE\'s don\'t block very well a\'tall and have the dropsies just like our WR\'s do. Does ANY of this give Brooks a pass on mistakes. No. Does ALL of this point to your agenda. Yup. Why else would you be so focused on Brooks? CLEARLY. LMAO
	C'mon Man...

10-12-2004, 01:48 PM	#7
saintfan Donated Plasma Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: San Francisco, CA Posts: 18,556 Blog Entries: 5	The Definitive 'It' Article I\'m a bit curious to know why you\'d rate Brooks so low after having said he\'s a pro-bowl QB. Fippity Flop, flippity flop...etc, etc. Maybe this is all bout the \"it\" thing and Jakes 1-3 record. hmmmmm... :rollinglaugh:

10-12-2004, 01:51 PM	#8
BlackandBlue Kinder, gentler Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: dirty south Posts: 3,889	The Definitive 'It' Article 1. leadership - 4 2. poise - 7 3. judgment - 6 4. competitiveness - 7 5. knowledge of game - 5 6. work ethic - 8 7. decision-making - 7 8. ability to read coverages - 2 9. touch - 3 10. accuracy - 8 I believe this would be accurate.

10-12-2004, 02:29 PM	#9
BrooksMustGo 1000 Posts + Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 1,762	The Definitive 'It' Article 1. leadership - 4 2. poise - 7 3. judgment - 6 4. competitiveness - 7 5. knowledge of game - 5 6. work ethic - 8 7. decision-making - 7 8. ability to read coverages - 2 9. touch - 3 10. accuracy - 8 1. leadership - 5 2. poise - 6 3. judgment - 5 4. competitiveness - 7 5. knowledge of game - 4 6. work ethic - 8 I think he is always conditioned well, I\'m not very confident about his ability to break down film, but then I\'m not there. 7. decision-making - 4 Running out of bounds when we\'re trying to kill the clock hurts him here. 8. ability to read coverages - 2 9. touch - 1 10. accuracy - on timed routes - 4, if WR\'s have time to separate - 8 I\'d add 11. Ability to work with the O-line - 2 (by this I mean not backing out of the protection) 12. Sandlot play - 9
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10-12-2004, 03:40 PM	#10
2SAINTS04 Rookie Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: NORTH LOUISIANA Posts: 20	The Definitive 'It' Article 1. leadership-5 2. poise-7 3. judgement-7 4. competitiveness-8 5. knowledge of game-6 6. work ethic-8 7. decision making-7 8. ability to read coverages-5 9. touch-4 10. accuracy-8