AWESOME WIN....but somebody has to say it
 

First of all we are 4-0 and couldnt be in a better position in the division. Offense has found its stride as far as moving the ball and yes, the defense is the real deal. One or two games you can call a fluke or luck, but 4 straight great outings and its for real.
That being said, we need to do something about our offensive line, and quick. We are playing great right now, but if we cannot learn to consistantly run the ball in the first half it will catch up with us down the stretch. Although he wasn't hit as much, he still had some pressure and that can factor in the second half of the season.
It is a marathon not a sprint and there are some things we need to fix if we are going to be in it for the long haul. I don't know what the answer is but be it by trade or just signing some vet who didnt get picked up we have to beef it up.
Grubbs seems to have regressed from last year.
I dont want to see Brees on the ground as much as he has been. If he is, it is going to effect his timing and decision making.
We are a playoff team, but how far we go hinges on our Oline.

Re: AWESOME WIN....but somebody has to say it
 

Charles Brown..... not sure about him. At least Brees was "only" sacked twice tonight.

Re: AWESOME WIN....but somebody has to say it
 

Seriously? Drew was sacked twice against arguably the best front 7 we've faced so far.

O-Line and the offense as a whole are starting to get their rhythm...

Re: AWESOME WIN....but somebody has to say it
 

Does anyone else think the offense has looked much better the last two weeks without Ingram?

Re: AWESOME WIN....but somebody has to say it
 

I don't think it's Ingram as much as the OC and Sean Payton are changing our scheme. Our offense has looked a lot better the past 2 weeks, period. It's not Ingram per se.

Re: AWESOME WIN....but somebody has to say it
 

The interior of our line hasn't looked good. Grubbs and DLP.

Re: AWESOME WIN....but somebody has to say it
 

I think its a little of both. Collins got in a couple nice blocks and they were able to open a couple of holes there toward the end. I did see K-Rob plow over a couple of people twice. That is something we are missing when Ingram is in. I totally agree that the line looked improved this week, but its still a liability.

Re: AWESOME WIN....but somebody has to say it
 

If we expect to make a DEEP playoff run this season,, there must be more balance on offense. Whether its Pierre, Robinson OR Ingram running the ball. We were smacked pretty good by the Fins D line first half.

Re: AWESOME WIN....but somebody has to say it
 

Interior o-line looked especially bad run blocking tonight. I think it's time to scrap the zone blocking scheme.

Still liked what I saw from Robinson. 3.1 YPC may not look great but he is consistently making positive yardage.

Re: AWESOME WIN....but somebody has to say it
 

I agree with many of the points made about the lack of a run game in the previous posts.

I am a purist in that I believe we will exit early in the playoffs without a consistent run game.

Then, I stated thinking. Could Payton pull this off? Can he adjust, week to week, to whatever the opposition shows us?

All it takes is one poor performance and we exit the post season. It also requires some luck.

Maybe Coach is doing what he can with what he has. This is a young offensive line overall. Hopefully the players will improve as the year goes on.

I Believe.

Re: AWESOME WIN....but somebody has to say it
 

Think we may need to see if they're some players on practice squads or something to fix up this oline. Maybe we can kidnap our old oline coach after we beat Chicago.

Re: AWESOME WIN....but somebody has to say it
 

Did someone mention... INGRAM!?

Who the hell is that!?

Alaska

Re: AWESOME WIN....but somebody has to say it
 

the OL had probably its best game in pass protection but still there is room for improvement and plenty of it

run blocking? still not there

now screen blocking they maybe the best in the nfl

still the job they did gets a C- my book

Re: AWESOME WIN....but somebody has to say it
 

Grubbs is surprisingly bad imho. Getting pushed back an generally just not dominating, a huge step down from Nicks.

Evans is far from his dominant self. I think whatever injury he has had is causing him more problems than what you think.

But most of all the problem is just the continous turnaround we have had on O-line the last couple of years has finally caught up. You can only replace so many guys befor chemistry will take a hit. Charlie Brown and Strief are doing a decent job and DLP isn't all bad. The group as a whole needs to get better thou.

Re: AWESOME WIN....but somebody has to say it
 

If the cliche' "someone has to say it" were true. I wouldn't get all of the hate PMs that I do. :)

Re: AWESOME WIN....but somebody has to say it
 

"hate PMs"?, turn that function off Oak!, :rofl:

Re: AWESOME WIN....but somebody has to say it
 

Noooo it's too comical.

Most of them are very similar to this. Replace Britney with username.

Re: AWESOME WIN....but somebody has to say it
 

hmmmm... plenty of bodies have been saying that since preseason.

Re: AWESOME WIN....but somebody has to say it
 

I think a part of it is Ingram. He slows us down with a 3 yard carry or a minus 1 yard carry the next.

Re: AWESOME WIN....but somebody has to say it
 

To be fair, they all were stuffed behind the line last night. The power running game is nil but Payton is using the short passing game to compensate.

Re: AWESOME WIN....but somebody has to say it
 

I don't think that 'fair' or perspective applies when some evaluate Ingram. Those same people would be screaming to cut Adrian Peterson if he were playing behind this line, claiming that his knee is crap.

Robinson did squadouche until the game was out of reach and the heavy package was installed. Even then we were passing to compensate for Robinson's inability to create when hit in the backfield.

The running game starts and ends with the o-line. Last night should relegate arguments otherwise to the same level as Holocaust and Global Warming Deniers.

Re: AWESOME WIN....but somebody has to say it
 

Grubbs got body slammed once, they were manhandled in the first half.

Re: AWESOME WIN....but somebody has to say it
 

We have to sure up that run defense as well. Have been getting gashed in that area. I don't wanna see another repeat beast mode performance

Re: AWESOME WIN....but somebody has to say it
 

Well there you have it. Our O-Line causes global warming. :)

Although Strief is middle-high German, I feel safe in saying there is no correlation between our o-line and the holocaust.

Re: AWESOME WIN....but somebody has to say it
 

Re: AWESOME WIN....but somebody has to say it
 

If the last 2 games don't prove anything for you Ingram bashers I don't know what will. OL is being man handled. Robinson managed a 3.1 ave sounds familiar. His only good runs were towards the end of the game when the outcome was determined but even then the fins was still getting penetration. We are actually running better to the right side right now and only when we bring in an Harris as a TE for extra blocking. Someone tweeted last night even Barry Sanders would struggle behind our OL and I believe it.

Re: AWESOME WIN....but somebody has to say it
 

I thought that this would be another thread about Hardly. Old Sugar Tits is back to freaking me out EVERY time he kicks.

Re: AWESOME WIN....but somebody has to say it
 

Hold your horses there. I still saw some plays from robinson that were positive but could have easily been negatives if ingram was in. Particularly, there was one play where he carried guys for an extra 2-3 years. Usually, ingram is stood up and the play is over.

I don't want to get into a whole debate as there are already threads for that, so I will say I wholeheartedly agree about the state of our oline. It appears this zone blocking run scheme isn't working very well in addition to our lineman getting manhandled. The short passing/screen game that payton is using to supplement the run game won't go very far when we face teams that have linebackers that can cover and tackle in open space.

Re: AWESOME WIN....but somebody has to say it
 

Darren Sharper was on the MNF Westwood radio broadcast last night. He said that the Saints spend so much time practicing pass blocking that they don't have the right mindset in a game for run blocking. He seems to think the practices are so unbalanced they affect the game.

Re: AWESOME WIN....but somebody has to say it
 

If Ingram were averaging 3.1, that would be a major improvement from him.

It seems to me Ingram is by far the most ill-suited back we have to play in a zone blocking system. PT, Robinson, Sproles and even Cadet from what little we've seen of him are cutback-style runners and that is what a ZBS caters to.

Ingram is not that kind of player. That is just who he is. Not bashing him outright, just saying he doesn't fit this style of offense.

As for the o-line I am very disappointed in Ben Grubbs this year. Evans is hurt, that is understandable. DLP to some extent is the product of being sandwiched between two very good guards, he does his job very well but he's not a dominant player on his own. So his performance is going to go hand-in-hand with the guards. But Grubbs is a much, much better player than what we've seen from him this year and he doesn't have the injury excuse. Hopefully Evans gets over his back thing soon.

Re: AWESOME WIN....but somebody has to say it
 

Some constructive criticism here. Since running between the tackles this year is an iffy proposition at best with our OL, we need to run outside more. I would like to see more tosses and stretch plays. Let our tight-ends and Collins get out on the perimeter and lead the way. Toon and Colston are pretty physical wideouts who should be able to block. Also, our OL looks so much better blocking on those screens, so hopefully they'd also look a bit better pulling outside and blocking.

At this point our best bet of running the ball up the middle is on draws out of various formations.

The one call that blew my mind last night was a first-and-5 play inside the opponents 20 ... and we came out in an empty backfield. I know the NFL is a passing league and it's our strength, but at least put a back in there and make them respect the threat of a delay route out of the backfield, if not a draw.

Re: AWESOME WIN....but somebody has to say it
 

Robinson had one or two nice runs in the beginning of the game. He was no AP. But Ingram probably would have taken a loss. Even though it was towards the end of the game tHey read the run and stuffed him well and he was still able to move the pile. He was making gains when there were no holes, something Ingram has failed to do. The dolphins line is a lot better than anyone elses we have played.

Re: AWESOME WIN....but somebody has to say it
 

i have always said it is not his fault. the OL is not built to play smash mouth football. been saying that for two years now

Re: AWESOME WIN....but somebody has to say it
 

Those arguing that MI would have done worse than KR would have to have both playing in the same game running the same play in the same circumstances to even have a hope of arguing intellectual honesty in their assertion.

Just admit you're an irrational hater and stop the pretense that your conclusion is based on fact.

Re: AWESOME WIN....but somebody has to say it
 

In the first half he ran for +4, -3, +1 so my math says 3 carries for 2 yards.
He didn't run again until towards the end of the 3rd quarter.
His big runs came in the 4th quarter. His runs went like this.
+4,-3,+1,+6,-1,+11,+10,+6,+2,+1,-5,+5.
Look, I don't love Ingram more than any other RB that we have but I think most everyone is being unfair to him. The last 2 weeks have shown that no one on this team can run effectively behind our OL in the first half. We have to force them to back off the line defending the pass to open up the run game right now and we need to fix that.

Re: AWESOME WIN....but somebody has to say it
 

4-0 pass to open up the run seems to be working...

Re: AWESOME WIN....but somebody has to say it
 

Yes, they are recognizing what works (5 wide w/ short passes) and what doesn't (running). We'd all love to see more production in the run game, but Drew's reads in the short passing game have been unbelievable.
A RB (Sproles) getting 100+ receiving is fine by me

Re: AWESOME WIN....but somebody has to say it
 

Our line looks nothing like the '09 line. Not the same personnel or execution.

Re: AWESOME WIN....but somebody has to say it
 

Lot to consider-
-new receivers might be taking a split second longer to get open- Toon, --Stills, and new Meachem are not Moore, Henderson and old Meachem
-to me it seems Brees is holding the ball more than in years past
-zero run game equals more blitzes and pressure
-who knows if Evans is 100%?

Re: AWESOME WIN....but somebody has to say it
 

After a 4 game sample size, we can certainly assess that the O-line is the top weakness of this 2013 team. I have seen improvement since Game 1 in pass protection and especially the 2nd half of last night's game, but the run blocking cannot function this way for the long haul.