saintswhodi

To me, sure Moss may have been a headache. But would you rather have this headache on your team or playing for another team? Players we had problems with in the locker room previously were bums, Albert Connell intsantly comes to mind. If you are a headache in the locker room and then go out and put up 2 td\'s every week, I am gonna take that over a church mouse who just collects a check. But that\'s just me.

JKool

As I recall, over that stretch, Moss was certainly not scoring two TDs a game AND refused to catch balls over the middle. While it would be nice to have him now, I am willing to bet he would have been run out of town and called a bust if we\'d had hime then.

Furthermore, troubled players who perform at a high level are rarely called headaches. People only complain when you don\'t play well AND you\'re a headache.

saintswhodi

Moss had the best beginning to his career of any receiver, ever. He may not have been getting 2 td\'s a game, but he has been dominating since he was a rookie. That can\'t be argued. Culpepper was not the most accurate qb when he first started out and fumbled a lot. sound familiar? Saying 2 td\'s a game was an exaggeration to make a point that certain headaches are tolerated. I have little doubt that Moss would have been just as much a superstar in a Saints uniform as a Vikings uniform. Of course, we can agree to disagree. but someone with that much talent is too good to not shine wherever he is.

SycoSurfer

I remember a guy with a ton of heart hustled everyday, every practice, every play... he was always there when you needed him... worked as hard as he could to make the team as good as it could be... he got a tackle and a sack in 1 game... but his name was Rudy and I dont member him getting drafted to high or making much of an impact on any team... So Young has done a great deal of NOTHING so far... We could have gotten Rudy for a free Tshirt and tickets to a home game... Young might do sumthing but as for now he hasnt... once again proof of our lack of talent evaluation...

JKool

whodi,

Point taken. I just think that the deck would have been stacked against him and there seems to be some evidence for that. Perhaps, Moss would have been able to shine through - a la Ch. Grant, Glover, Knight, etc. but my point was that there was more reason to think that he\'d end up like a Turely, Connell, Riley, or G. Jackson.

Surfer,

What do you mean by done nothing? I saw him make a tackle on a WR 15 yards down field. Sure, he has no sacks, but he has a bunch of hurries and a couple of QB knockdowns. Also, who knows what kind of effect he is having on the other, perhaps less disciplined guys, on the line.

I think if we get an effective run stopper next to him, he becomes a solid feature of this line for the next few years.

PS - The Rudy analogy made me laugh.

"... I was beating them with my eyes the whole game..." - Aaron Brooks

SycoSurfer

Yeah I didnt mean he has done nothing, but it seems like that... I mean the only one on our D-line that seems to make me feel like he plays is C. Grant. I hope he represents us at the ProBowl... Well him and Mitch Burger...

Young has played his heart out, but when we have a SUPER BUST next to him or an undrafted rookie... He is limited... I know I am to hard on him, but he was supposed to be an upgrade to the D-line and honestly I cant tell the difference so far... I know thats not his fault cause he isnt supposed to get double teamed so much... Im just frustrated about it all...

As for the Rudy thing thanks for enjoying it... I try to make things creative to lighten this place up... it gets harder and harder, but we have to keep a positive out look dont we?

saintswhodi

Kool

I see your point and can\'t really disagree. But I think a talent like Moss\' would have won out, even though a couple of Poydras St. meter maids may have had to watch their backs.

Syco

I also enjoyed the Rudy ananlogy. And as I said before I am not saying Young has done nothing, but there have been no results so far. Maybe he is the reason Grant is playing so hard, but Grant had 10 sacks last year with no help. I agreed Young is being outmatched by the uselessness that is lined up in the middle with him, but look at what Grant Wistrom had done for Seattle\'s line. And all they said about him was he had a great motor and wasn\'t a stat guy, just like Young. I have not seen that kind of impact from Young yet. That being said, I am glad we have him on our team. I do like the guy and think he is a good influence.

whodatsaintsfan26

For anyone doubting what young brings to this defense watch the first quarter and key in on him. He has 1/2 a sack, hits moore 5 yards in the backfield(he missed the tackle, but made the play for the rest of the defense), tackles culpepper at the line on a scramble and has a quarterback pressure. Thats just the first quarter.

whodatsaintsfan26

As far as Sullivan being the biggest bust the saints have had I have to disagree. I remember a certain punter/kicker the saints took with the 11th pick in the 79 draft. With names like Joe Montana HOF, Kellen Winslow HOF, Dwight Clark THE CATCH, Mark Gastaneau 21 sack season, and a very familiar coach Haslett still on the board the Saints take Russell Erxlaben with the 11th pick. Top that bust.

Career stats with NO 2-6 fg 3-3 pat\'s 9 career points.

[Edited on 19/10/2004 by whodatsaintsfan26]

JKool

Surfer,

I hear you on the frustration! Yikes! Doesn\'t it abound these sad days.

Whodi,