Isn't Young supposed to be the high motor guy?
 

Isn't this what coach Haz said when they cough *stole* cough him from the Rams in free agency? Besides the one play against the Vikes where he pushed the guard back into Culpepper but still couldn't shed the block, has he done anything except miss tackles in the backfield? Charles Grant seems to be the only high motor guy on our d-line, although Will Smith is a keeper.

And what happened to moving Howard inside on obvious passing downs to get this great rush? All I ever see is Sully's fat arse on the ground. Has there been a bigger bust that a team has given up 2 first round picks to get? Egads. Trufant, Trufant, Trufant. I know it has all been said here before, but these coaches obviously have no idea how to evaluate talent, how to manage talent, or how to develop talent. I guess it should be obvious to me from the fact that Haz has kept Venturi in a coordinator position this long and allows McCarthy to waste one of the best backs in the league. Didn't Portis run like 38 times yesterday? Talk about using your weapons.

Isn't Young supposed to be the high motor guy?
 

Actually, there is some good substance to this post......i agree on all of the points........we abandoned the run and it was clearly working....yes we were playing catch up but it was not a huge gap. And Sully does find himself on the turf alot.

Isn't Young supposed to be the high motor guy?
 

Thanks. Just some thoughts I had to get out about this team. I just wonder, if we can all see it, why can\'t Benson? Of course selling out the dome for 34 straight games isn\'t exactly an impetus for change.

Isn't Young supposed to be the high motor guy?
 

Also with Sully on the turf.....others around tend to look bad.

Isn't Young supposed to be the high motor guy?
 

Yes. Also easier to get double-teamed when you have one less defensive player upright.

Isn't Young supposed to be the high motor guy?
 

Really, Young\'s motor can\'t be faulted. I saw him making tackles in the secondary throughout that game.

I\'m not saying that should be happening - it shouldn\'t. But you can\'t fault his motor when you see him making tackles 15 yards behind the line of scrimmage.

Regardless of his failures at the line, he played every down I watched, never gave up on the play.

Unlike Sully.

Isn't Young supposed to be the high motor guy?
 

Don\'t get me wrong LOE, I am not actually faulting Young for all the problems. I am making an observation that Haz said \"he has a motor that will rub off on other guys\" and \"he was a key free agent choice for us from day one.\" Looks like we had the motor guy on our squad all along. Young plays hard no doubt, but when does that translate into plays? I love his hustle and if we had 9 other guys like he and Grant playing D we would be unmatched, but at some point his hustle has to turn into production. Stop the run, make a tackle in the backfield, record a sack, do something besides getting blocked at the line and then once the play is past you turning and running. I wish they all had his heart but when is talent gonna match that heart?

Sully on the other hand is an out and out bust. There are no words for how long we will feel the sting of that draft. I thought giving up a draft for Ricky was bad, I thought passing on Eddie George was bad, I though passing on Randy Moss was bad, but giving up two firsts for Sully has got to be the A number one primo draft blunder in franchise history, and that\'s saying a lot.

Isn't Young supposed to be the high motor guy?
 

Passing on Randy Moss was smart. If he were on this team, he would have long ago been labeled a bust and traded. He needs a good coach, or at least he did for the first couple years with his lack of maturity. He wouldn\'t be a superstar today if he had been drafted by the Saints.

Isn't Young supposed to be the high motor guy?
 

Joe Horn, who was 3rd string in KC, became a star here. Moss couldn\'t? Okay.

Isn't Young supposed to be the high motor guy?
 

I actually agree with Rich006 on this one.

If you look at the guys with questionable character that we\'ve had here in the last few years, they just got worse.

Moss was a total punk for his first two seasons, and with the way people describe our locker room drama over those years, I think we have good reason to believe that Moss would have gone to shiznit (and taken several others with him). One thing we\'ve been criticized for is lacking vetran leadership - Moss without Cris Carter and Culpepper on the field with him helping him through those times... yikes. I don\'t think he makes it.

Joe Horn was no primadonna when he got here. He had paid his dues and was a hard worker. Moss came in with this \"there are none greater\" complex. I think there is a significant disanalogy there.

Isn't Young supposed to be the high motor guy?
 

To me, sure Moss may have been a headache. But would you rather have this headache on your team or playing for another team? Players we had problems with in the locker room previously were bums, Albert Connell intsantly comes to mind. If you are a headache in the locker room and then go out and put up 2 td\'s every week, I am gonna take that over a church mouse who just collects a check. But that\'s just me.

Isn't Young supposed to be the high motor guy?
 

As I recall, over that stretch, Moss was certainly not scoring two TDs a game AND refused to catch balls over the middle. While it would be nice to have him now, I am willing to bet he would have been run out of town and called a bust if we\'d had hime then.

Furthermore, troubled players who perform at a high level are rarely called headaches. People only complain when you don\'t play well AND you\'re a headache.

Isn't Young supposed to be the high motor guy?
 

Moss had the best beginning to his career of any receiver, ever. He may not have been getting 2 td\'s a game, but he has been dominating since he was a rookie. That can\'t be argued. Culpepper was not the most accurate qb when he first started out and fumbled a lot. sound familiar? Saying 2 td\'s a game was an exaggeration to make a point that certain headaches are tolerated. I have little doubt that Moss would have been just as much a superstar in a Saints uniform as a Vikings uniform. Of course, we can agree to disagree. but someone with that much talent is too good to not shine wherever he is.

Isn't Young supposed to be the high motor guy?
 

I remember a guy with a ton of heart hustled everyday, every practice, every play... he was always there when you needed him... worked as hard as he could to make the team as good as it could be... he got a tackle and a sack in 1 game... but his name was Rudy and I dont member him getting drafted to high or making much of an impact on any team... So Young has done a great deal of NOTHING so far... We could have gotten Rudy for a free Tshirt and tickets to a home game... Young might do sumthing but as for now he hasnt... once again proof of our lack of talent evaluation...

Isn't Young supposed to be the high motor guy?
 

whodi,

Point taken. I just think that the deck would have been stacked against him and there seems to be some evidence for that. Perhaps, Moss would have been able to shine through - a la Ch. Grant, Glover, Knight, etc. but my point was that there was more reason to think that he\'d end up like a Turely, Connell, Riley, or G. Jackson.

Surfer,

What do you mean by done nothing? I saw him make a tackle on a WR 15 yards down field. Sure, he has no sacks, but he has a bunch of hurries and a couple of QB knockdowns. Also, who knows what kind of effect he is having on the other, perhaps less disciplined guys, on the line.

I think if we get an effective run stopper next to him, he becomes a solid feature of this line for the next few years.

PS - The Rudy analogy made me laugh. :)

Isn't Young supposed to be the high motor guy?
 

Yeah I didnt mean he has done nothing, but it seems like that... I mean the only one on our D-line that seems to make me feel like he plays is C. Grant. I hope he represents us at the ProBowl... Well him and Mitch Burger...

Young has played his heart out, but when we have a SUPER BUST next to him or an undrafted rookie... He is limited... I know I am to hard on him, but he was supposed to be an upgrade to the D-line and honestly I cant tell the difference so far... I know thats not his fault cause he isnt supposed to get double teamed so much... Im just frustrated about it all...

As for the Rudy thing thanks for enjoying it... I try to make things creative to lighten this place up... it gets harder and harder, but we have to keep a positive out look dont we?

Isn't Young supposed to be the high motor guy?
 

Kool

I see your point and can\'t really disagree. But I think a talent like Moss\' would have won out, even though a couple of Poydras St. meter maids may have had to watch their backs.

Syco

I also enjoyed the Rudy ananlogy. And as I said before I am not saying Young has done nothing, but there have been no results so far. Maybe he is the reason Grant is playing so hard, but Grant had 10 sacks last year with no help. I agreed Young is being outmatched by the uselessness that is lined up in the middle with him, but look at what Grant Wistrom had done for Seattle\'s line. And all they said about him was he had a great motor and wasn\'t a stat guy, just like Young. I have not seen that kind of impact from Young yet. That being said, I am glad we have him on our team. I do like the guy and think he is a good influence.

Isn't Young supposed to be the high motor guy?
 

For anyone doubting what young brings to this defense watch the first quarter and key in on him. He has 1/2 a sack, hits moore 5 yards in the backfield(he missed the tackle, but made the play for the rest of the defense), tackles culpepper at the line on a scramble and has a quarterback pressure. Thats just the first quarter.

Isn't Young supposed to be the high motor guy?
 

As far as Sullivan being the biggest bust the saints have had I have to disagree. I remember a certain punter/kicker the saints took with the 11th pick in the 79 draft. With names like Joe Montana HOF, Kellen Winslow HOF, Dwight Clark THE CATCH, Mark Gastaneau 21 sack season, and a very familiar coach Haslett still on the board the Saints take Russell Erxlaben with the 11th pick. Top that bust.

Career stats with NO 2-6 fg 3-3 pat\'s 9 career points.

[Edited on 19/10/2004 by whodatsaintsfan26]

Isn't Young supposed to be the high motor guy?
 

Surfer,

I hear you on the frustration! Yikes! Doesn\'t it abound these sad days.

Whodi,

;)

Isn't Young supposed to be the high motor guy?
 

We do? I suppose that depends on who you ask. I know I will - glad to have you on board.

Isn't Young supposed to be the high motor guy?
 

Back to Sullivan being the worst draft bust in Saints History. I agree. We traded TWO FIRST ROUND draft picks, to take him in the 6TH round. That\'s a lot of weight to put on a young guy\'s shoulders, but not nearly enough to keep him from gaining 40 pounds of fat in 3 months. He knew how we were supposedly dedicated to stopping the run this year, but that wasn\'t enough for him to imrpove his skills at his position, so he loses his starting job to a free agent who was barely even scouted out of college, in Howard Green. Was that enough to get results. Of course not. Erxlaben was the worst until now. We passed on many young guys who may be future hall of famers.
Marcus Trufant, Byron Leftwich, Jordan Gross, Charles Tillman, Ken Hamlin, Nick Barnett, Anquan Boldin. And these are all positions we need lots of help at.

Isn't Young supposed to be the high motor guy?
 

FOB,

I think you mean we took him with the 6th pick but I couldn\'t agree more. The thing that appalled me was when we picked him, I distinctly remember Kiper rifling through his draft sheets to remember where Sullivan was on his big board. He didn\'t even have him in the first round, and if he was definitely not that early. I don\'t even remember the Saints ever having a pick this high(besides the Ricky Williams fiasco) and they blew it egregiously. If nothing else defines this regime that has to be a glaring beacon of ineptitude.

[Edited on 20/10/2004 by saintswhodi]