Sean Payton Brain Fart
 

...when he chose to decline the defensive holding penalty for a 2nd and 3 instead of 1st and 5, which resulted in a punt. I also noticed a few other uncharacteristic miscues. We chose to kick it deep to Ginn with 15 seconds left in the half (instead of squib kick) when he had almost taken one to the house just one quarter earlier. Drew chose to let the clock wind all the way from 60 seconds to 30 seconds in the redzone when we only had 1 timeout. I forget what happened (sack maybe?) but we had to use the timeout with around 10 seconds left. We scored a TD anyway but could have easily been held to a FG or no points at all without the timeout and the 30 seconds wasted.

This was obviously a great win, but things like this could decide a close game.

Re: Sean Payton Brain Fart
 

A "teaching" moment.

Or, a "learning" moment.

Alaska

Re: Sean Payton Brain Fart
 

I don't think the options on the defensive holding were explained properly, he was seen discussing with the refs after the fact...

Re: Sean Payton Brain Fart
 

I was totally perplexed when he declined that penalty. That should have been immediately accepted without any second thought. The fact that he actually stopped to think about it and STILL declined it just blew my mind. Also when we had first and goal at the 1 and passed twice, I thought was a greedy attempt to add to passing stats instead of just worrying about getting the score. It could have worked, but a quick handoff is much more high percentage and far less risky.

Re: Sean Payton Brain Fart
 

Big deal. He fixed everything from last week. He does over think things at times but I'd rather have that than not thinking enough.

Re: Sean Payton Brain Fart
 

Memo to Benson, fire Payton, hire "FeelTheBrees" as soon as possible.

SMH

critique + "we scored a touchdown anyway"

You do realize, that this kind of second guessing is especially unimportant, right?

Re: Sean Payton Brain Fart
 

Would not have been 1st and 5. Would've been 1st and 10.

I'd rather have a 2nd and 3 than a 1st and 10.

Re: Sean Payton Brain Fart
 

We could be Craplanta http://i600.photobucket.com/albums/t.../bth_shrug.gif OH THE HORROR!!!!!:bng:

Re: Sean Payton Brain Fart
 

good question - meant to like the wrong post

Re: Sean Payton Brain Fart
 

I figured some of you might have a problem with this, but the fact remains that playoff games are often decided by a single play, penalty, or coaching decision. Gotta tighten it up a bit.

Re: Sean Payton Brain Fart
 

You do realize that EVERYTHING we do on this forum is especially unimportant? You know, because none of us actually have the power (nor the knowledge or experience) to affect any aspect of the ability of the New Orleans Saints to win football games. However, we discuss things on this forum for entertainment purposes...not because anything we say actually matters.

Take it easy, BRO.

Re: Sean Payton Brain Fart
 

2nd and 3 is still second down. If it were 2nd and 1 then you probably should take the play. But by taking the down we end up losing a yard on the next play and have 3rd and 4 instead of second 2nd and 11. the extra down is a much bigger deal than the yardage. Essentially he traded a down for two yards. That's a bad deal.

Re: Sean Payton Brain Fart
 

If you had a 1st and 10, and then got 7 yards on that first down play to make it 2nd down and 3, you would be pretty happy with that result, no?

The fact that we lost yardage on the 2nd down and 3 attempt doesn't make it the wrong decision.

(Don't get me wrong, I would've taken the penalty yardage too. In fact I was screaming at the TV. I'm just saying, once I settled down and thought about it, I can see why he made the choice he did).

Re: Sean Payton Brain Fart
 

If we get 7 yards i'm happy. If we have the option to get a first down for just two less yards, I'm taking that option without hesitation.

Re: Sean Payton Brain Fart
 

He had a Senior moment, everybody in the stadium was like... HUH!!!

We know he won't make a bone headed play like that in the clutch... He will see things that will get us over the hump... Like in the Championship Game vs Minnesota...

Re: Sean Payton Brain Fart
 

Why would it have been a 1st and 10? The penalty occurred on a 1st and 10, and it was a 5 yard penalty. I thought it would have been a 1st and 5.

O that decision, I made a comment in chat last night that I hoped we weren't talking about this penalty in the morning. Well, we're talking about it, but luckily, it's a non issue.

Re: Sean Payton Brain Fart
 

Nothing wrong with passing twice after being stuffed on the run play. You got a 6'5 wr and a 6'7 TE; tossing the ball on fade routes is a good call against the 1st ranked run D.

Re: Sean Payton Brain Fart
 

The penalty was a miscue... I would have not squibbed before the 1/2 regardless of who is taking the kickoff. Almost doesn't count but squibbing and giving them time to get into field goal range does. At that point in the game it was about not letting them gain any confidence since it was 21-6.

Re: Sean Payton Brain Fart
 

If football is a "game of inches", why would you give back 72?

Defensive holding is an automatic 1st and 10, not a 1st and 5. As a coach, you have to be confident you can get 3 yards in 2 tries to get a 1st down, which effectively gives you an extra play or 2, and consumes more time off the clock.

I don't see the issue here.

Re: Sean Payton Brain Fart
 

Yeah, that was kind of a wtf moment. Also, wasn't a fan of the calls when we were on the inch line. We do one fullback dive and then abandon the run.

In the grand scheme of things, none of these things are that worrisome. Overall, it was a very well coached game. Carolina had no answers on offense or defense for what we wanted to do to them.

Re: Sean Payton Brain Fart
 

Turning that logic, would you trade the 2 yards for a first down instead?
In almost all cases, yes.
He screwed up

Re: Sean Payton Brain Fart
 

You rather have 2 downs than 3? You saw how hard it was for us to get a half yard ? And Carolina themselves had a hard time getting 3rd and shorts. I think payton was just trying to get more yards for drew to shut up that secondary.

Who's soft now!

Re: Sean Payton Brain Fart
 

He had Drew and Meachem in his fantasy league.

Re: Sean Payton Brain Fart
 

2nd and 3 - need 1.5 yards on each down
1st and 10 - need 3.34 yards on each down

Am I going to get upset with Sean Payton for believing his offense can get 3 yards in 2 plays? No.

Re: Sean Payton Brain Fart
 

To me the biggest brain fart was dropping in a prevent on Carolina's 4th and goal from the 17.

I saw the prevent alignment and was 100% certain it would result in a TD.

Re: Sean Payton Brain Fart
 

Worst defensive play in football.

Re: Sean Payton Brain Fart
 

I was quite fine with the 2nd-and-3. Collinsworth made WAY too big of a deal whining about it. 2nd and 3 should be very convertible by our offense ... a decent running play in any direction or a simple out by Graham, our WR's or Sproles should pick up that 3 yards easily. Gotta give the Carolina D props on holding us in that situation.

Re: Sean Payton Brain Fart
 

one day coach p may be as perfect as all of you.


the main thing to remember is YOU will never have a super bowl ring.

he already wears one.

Re: Sean Payton Brain Fart
 

This is true.

Re: Sean Payton Brain Fart
 

I liked the call. We were marching on them no problem. Tea leaves were saying we get the 1st down.

Re: Sean Payton Brain Fart
 

The probability of getting 3 yards in two downs, is greater than the probability of getting 10 yards in 3 downs.

Also, 2nd and 3 is more like a play where the Saints will often take a shot. I thought for sure they were gonna find a mismatch and take a shot down the field on the second down there. Then they didn't. Oh well. There might have been two plays, a run and a pass called, and Drew saw something and checked into the run, we don't really know.


The other reason it also might have been declined, is because maybe Payton wanted to take the spot of the ball further up field, to get it outside the 20. Inside or around the 20, sometimes bad things happen to Drew's passes, like what happened with the fumble in Seattle last week, or the pick 6 Drew threw against Carolina last year, in almost the exact same spot on the field (except it was in Carolina). Given the probabilities, and that a turnover in that area at that point in the game would really suck, I don't think it was that bad of a call, to just take the yards and keep on going, we were moving the ball okay in the first half. 2nd and 3 the Panthers will show you a different defensive look and personnel than they will on 1st and 10 so maybe that was part of his thinking too. Who knows. I hope someone asks him about it this week because it was an interesting call, although I wouldn't call it a "brain fart" just because Payton doesn't do what you would have done.

Re: Sean Payton Brain Fart
 

In Sean we trust!

Re: Sean Payton Brain Fart
 

A quarterback sneak in what you do in that situation. There is very little room for the receivers to run routes that close, and often trying to force a pass there ends in disaster. For us, it ended in 3 points instead of 6. It's a non issue now, but it was not high percentage play-calling. The fade rarely works aswell.

Re: Sean Payton Brain Fart
 

Not when you are a passing team. We don't run well, as evidenced lastnight. Sure we get some chunks against bottom feeding defenses like the Cowboys, but unless you're talking about 15 yards difference, I'll take the extra down every time. 2nd and 1, i can see taking the play and running for the first down, but anything beyond that, it's not a good thing for us to be attempting to run for a first down in my opinion.

Re: Sean Payton Brain Fart
 

Re: Sean Payton Brain Fart
 

Then you are second guessing the playcalling decision to run on 2nd down, which is a different question from the penalty decision to take the yards.

Take the penalty, it's first down, you have 3 downs to get 10 yards = you need to get 3.3 yards per play, from the 21
Take the 2nd and 3, you have 2 plays to get 3 yards = you need 1.5 yards per play and you're out to the 23. Better field position, lower yards to go, higher probability you'll get it in two tries.

It has nothing to do with having a good running game or not. It has nothing to do with your emotions about the Saints, wanting them to pass more or your opinion on not wanting them to run. It's about probability, which is easier/harder or more likely to be achieved -- 3 downs to get 10 or 2 downs to get 3. You're saying in that situation you'll "take" the 1st and 10, and that's fine, that's your decision, you're the coach -- but you are taking the harder path to achieve success, with a more difficult probability to get it.

Plus, when Brees is that close to our own goal line, it also makes sense to take the yards, to go forward, and keep going and get further outside the 20. Because that is the area of the field where fumbles and turnovers going the other direction are especially dangerous. Brees just had one the week before and he had thrown a pick 6 last year against Carolina in almost the same exact field position.

Re: Sean Payton Brain Fart
 

When Payton made the call and Collinsworth was questioning it I said "He won a Superbowl. I trust him."

Re: Sean Payton Brain Fart
 

Defensive Holding comes with an automatic first down. So it would be 1st and 10 even though the penalty yards are only 5 yards.

SFIAH

Re: Sean Payton Brain Fart
 

that was one of the duh moments in life.

Re: Sean Payton Brain Fart
 

He also said, " I have NEVER seen anyone turn down a first down." Everything in context.