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-   -   This is why Malcolm Jenkins isn't going anywhere (https://blackandgold.com/saints/63282-why-malcolm-jenkins-isnt-going-anywhere.html)

papz 12-31-2013 08:24 AM
Re: This is why Malcolm Jenkins isn't going anywhere
 
Pass rush my friend... it makes a world of a difference.


With all the knocking of our safeties, I wouldn't mind having either back... just not at a premium price point.

Danno 12-31-2013 08:38 AM
Re: This is why Malcolm Jenkins isn't going anywhere
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by nola_swammi (Post 566435)
Of 113 graded corners, Jabari Greer graded best at 60th overall. This average don't make him one of the worst it make him just average
Are you sure you aren't using 2013 stats?
Here's the final 2012 rankings for our defenders...
Defensive Ends out of 109
Jordan 66
Smith 108
Galette 19
Wilson 33

DT out of 148
Bunkley 29
Ellis 118
Akiem Hicks 29
Johnson 42

Outside Linebackers Out of 109
Vilma 100
Hawthorne 102
Casillas 59
Wilson 81
Herring 87
Shanle 95

Inside linebackers out of 112
Lofton 104
Wilson (1 snap) 43

CB's out of 217
Greer 113
Robinson 193
Mack 72
White 203
Patrick 205
Murphy 70

Safeties out of 168
Harper 167
Jenkins 168
Bush 22
Abdul- Quddus 57

jeanpierre 12-31-2013 08:52 AM
Re: This is why Malcolm Jenkins isn't going anywhere
 
From those numbers, we need to make Bush our starter which many on this site posted/felt he had outplayed Jenkins and Harper...

But the problem of receivers running by Harper and Jenkins is still there - awkward/non-fluid hips...

Vaccaro and Bush would be great building blocks because they can actually provide honest to very good coverage against deep receivers...

But the Pass Rush is night and day and as big part of the improved Pass Defense because we got younger on the front line and Will Smith was blocking the younger guys from making it happen...

Now if White with more snaps/experience can improve technique of jamming receivers at the line with his size (as good defenses have done to our receivers) we're really gonna get better at defense...

Still have a hole at ILB with Lofton's porous coverage...

Danno 12-31-2013 08:55 AM
Re: This is why Malcolm Jenkins isn't going anywhere
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeanpierre (Post 566496)
From those numbers, we need to make Bush our starter which many on this site posted/felt he had outplayed Jenkins and Harper...

But the problem of receivers running by Harper and Jenkins is still there - awkward/non-fluid hips...

Vaccaro and Bush would be great building blocks because they can actually provide honest to very good coverage against deep receivers...

But the Pass Rush is night and day and as big part of the improved Pass Defense because we got younger on the front line and Will Smith was blocking the younger guys from making it happen...

Now if White with more snaps/experience can improve technique of jamming receivers at the line with his size (as good defenses have done to our receivers) we're really gonna get better at defense...

Still have a hole at ILB with Lofton's porous coverage...
Bush only played a handful of snaps in 2012 so that grade is skewed, but I agree he does look good. Everyone was falling all over IAQ before the season started but Bush kept getting all the playing time. Ryan definitely saw something he liked.

You can completely ignore all of those 2012 stats, they are meaningless because of Spags system.

halloween 65 12-31-2013 08:59 AM
Re: This is why Malcolm Jenkins isn't going anywhere
 
I've said before Rob Ryans scheme has made Jenkins look better than he really is but now teams have found weak spots and Jenkins is one of the weak spots, He could not hide him forever. We need a FS in the draft and another ILB.

dizzle88 12-31-2013 09:02 AM
Re: This is why Malcolm Jenkins isn't going anywhere
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Danno (Post 566500)
Bush only played a handful of snaps in 2012 so that grade is skewed, but I agree he does look good. Everyone was falling all over IAQ before the season started but Bush kept getting all the playing time. Ryan definitely saw something he liked.

You can completely ignore all of those 2012 stats, they are meaningless because of Spags system.
Bush just seems to make plays whenever he is in the game, he doesnt do anything amazing but he's very good at alot of areas

Danno 12-31-2013 09:05 AM
Re: This is why Malcolm Jenkins isn't going anywhere
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by halloween 65 (Post 566503)
I've said before Rob Ryans scheme has made Jenkins look better than he really is but now teams have found weak spots and Jenkins is one of the weak spots, He could not hide him forever. We need a FS in the draft and another ILB.
Maybe so, but I'm not buying that all of a sudden teams discovered a weakness in MJ. These are some of the smartest football minds on the planet. If he was a glaring weakness they'd throw toward him every play.

But I agree wholeheartedly about ILB. We need speed, we have none. Hawthorne has OK speed, but he's not that heat seeking missile we need.

jeanpierre 12-31-2013 10:12 AM
Re: This is why Malcolm Jenkins isn't going anywhere
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Danno (Post 566500)
Bush only played a handful of snaps in 2012 so that grade is skewed, but I agree he does look good. Everyone was falling all over IAQ before the season started but Bush kept getting all the playing time. Ryan definitely saw something he liked.

You can completely ignore all of those 2012 stats, they are meaningless because of Spags system.
Vaccaro definitely was the replacement (and needed) for Harper in most packages before Harper's injury; though I'll say they ran some three safety/dime packages against Matt Ryan et al that confused the shat out of 'em and we're effective; but you can't just ignore the Spags system, getting younger and faster is as important as scheme...

Jenkins has completely shat his pant in his transition year, so he's likely gone unless he comes back at a discount and as a nickel back (like Meachem first round pick, supporting role - what a "fail"); I'd prefer to re-sign Bush over Jenkins at the FS spot with a high draft pick to solidfy the backstop...

Sure did like Elbert Mack from that season; he was the lone bright spot in that Giants game when Harper and Jenkins were chasing seemingly everyone from behind or whiffing against David Wilson...

blackangold 12-31-2013 02:22 PM
Re: This is why Malcolm Jenkins isn't going anywhere
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by lee909 (Post 566483)
If Harper and Jenkins are as bad as some want to make out we wouldn't have just seen the Defense jump from one of the 2 worst in the league to one of the top 5 this year.
This statement makes no sense at all...

Vaccaro was the starting SS even when Harper was healthy. Bush took over for Jenkins in the 3 S sets and Jenkins usually was dropping in the box.

All that aside if you want to credit them for this year success (even though we drafted a 1st rounder to take their place) then you have to credit them for last years failure.

Danno 12-31-2013 02:30 PM
Re: This is why Malcolm Jenkins isn't going anywhere
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by blackangold (Post 566622)
This statement makes no sense at all...

Vaccaro was the starting SS even when Harper was healthy. Bush took over for Jenkins in the 3 S sets and Jenkins usually was dropping in the box.

All that aside if you want to credit them for this year success (even though we drafted a 1st rounder to take their place) then you have to credit them for last years failure.
Vaccaro started at NB week 1 and week 2, and Harper/Jenkins were the starting safeties for both games.

http://www.nfl.com/liveupdate/gamece...O_Gamebook.pdf
http://www.nfl.com/liveupdate/gamece...B_Gamebook.pdf

Harper got hurt and Vaccaro took over at SS in week 3, Jenkins remained the starter at FS.

WhoDatFan26 12-31-2013 04:04 PM
Re: This is why Malcolm Jenkins isn't going anywhere
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheOak (Post 566482)
What would you call more ridiculous?

1. You wanting the notion of trading a player that is not trade-able to stop?
2. You wanting the notion of releasing a player that is not releasable to stop?
3. Wanting to keep the 61sh ranked tackler but the 14th highest Cap hit Safety?

Of NFL Safeties
His tackling efficiency ranks 138th in the NFL.
Allowed TDs in his coverage 20th in the NFL.
Yards after the catch allowed 8th in the NFL.
Receptions allowed in his coverage 7th in the NFL.
Coverage targeted in the NFL 10th. <---QBs prey on him.
Missed Tackles 10th most in passing, 18th most in rushing.

He is 5th in pass Rush for S.
4th in sacks for S.

Before you go calling the majority of the board ridiculous you know what you are talking about.

He is only valuable in a 3 S set. Otherwise he is a liability in coverage and open field tackling. He is a mediocre Safety at best but getting paid very well.

Jenkins cant hold Vaccaro's jock and actually trails Harper on some stats.

I would have benched him on that BS puzzy-azz tackle attempt in the Tampa Bay game Sunday when he got hurdled and didn't know until he hit the ground.
I've said it once and I'll say it again: Malcolm Jenkins isn't going anywhere.

TheOak 12-31-2013 04:20 PM
Re: This is why Malcolm Jenkins isn't going anywhere
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by WhoDatFan26 (Post 566643)
I've said it once and I'll say it again: Malcolm Jenkins isn't going anywhere.

So when logic fails you, authority comes next? LOL you better eat your Wheaties if your going to come all hard.

If you want our defense to get better we need someone that doesn't miss as many tackles, get hurdled, and can cover. Jenkins is not getting any better so it seems you think our defense has peaked.

Here buddy.... This is YOUR guy.

"Outside of falling for a perfectly executed flea-flicker that caught them, namely safety Malcolm Jenkins, napping in the first quarter, the Saints turned in another dominating performance."
http://www.nola.com/saints/index.ssf...ay_lights.html

lumm0x 12-31-2013 04:54 PM
Re: This is why Malcolm Jenkins isn't going anywhere
 
There are stats you can massage to make any argument. What never fails is the eye ball test. Harper can't cover anything. He is stout vs. the run and a decent blitzer, but he has poor make up speed and gets caught up in traffic when trying to hang with people. Jenkins has very poor instincts in reading plays and when the ball is in the air. He bites on nearly every pump fake, takes poor angles, and while he doesn't usually allow receivers to separate from him he seldom succeeds in challenging on the ball. Tackling is another suspect area. Too many times he throws his body and makes no effort to wrap.

I would not be disappointed to see neither player back. But with Vaccaro suffering the injury both very well may be.

My bottom line point - our new found pass rush is making our entire secondary aside from Keenan Lewis better than it is.

Schmohams 12-31-2013 05:35 PM
Re: This is why Malcolm Jenkins isn't going anywhere
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by lumm0x (Post 566663)
I would not be disappointed to see neither player back. But with Vaccaro suffering the injury both very well may be.
Vaccaro broke his ankle, he will be ready to play most likely before training camp.

Danno 12-31-2013 05:37 PM
Re: This is why Malcolm Jenkins isn't going anywhere
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Schmohams (Post 566693)
Vaccaro broke his ankle, he will be ready to play most likely before training camp.
And its an injury that typically has a 100% recovery factor.

ChrisXVI 12-31-2013 05:58 PM
Re: This is why Malcolm Jenkins isn't going anywhere
 
Watching Malcolm Jenkins I'm usually more impressed that he got that grotesque frat branding on his arm than his actual on-field performance.

blackangold 12-31-2013 06:53 PM
Re: This is why Malcolm Jenkins isn't going anywhere
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by lumm0x (Post 566663)
There are stats you can massage to make any argument. What never fails is the eye ball test. Harper can't cover anything. He is stout vs. the run and a decent blitzer, but he has poor make up speed and gets caught up in traffic when trying to hang with people. Jenkins has very poor instincts in reading plays and when the ball is in the air. He bites on nearly every pump fake, takes poor angles, and while he doesn't usually allow receivers to separate from him he seldom succeeds in challenging on the ball. Tackling is another suspect area. Too many times he throws his body and makes no effort to wrap.

I would not be disappointed to see neither player back. But with Vaccaro suffering the injury both very well may be.

My bottom line point - our new found pass rush is making our entire secondary aside from Keenan Lewis better than it is.
Agree with all of this, however I like Bush and White as future stars in our secondary. Having a good pass rush helps every aspect of defense.

blackangold 12-31-2013 06:57 PM
Re: This is why Malcolm Jenkins isn't going anywhere
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Danno (Post 566624)
Vaccaro started at NB week 1 and week 2, and Harper/Jenkins were the starting safeties for both games.

http://www.nfl.com/liveupdate/gamece...O_Gamebook.pdf
http://www.nfl.com/liveupdate/gamece...B_Gamebook.pdf

Harper got hurt and Vaccaro took over at SS in week 3, Jenkins remained the starter at FS.
Starts are one thing but snaps are another. Vaccaro took 100% of the snaps while Harper took 83%. You can be listed as a starter and not 'start', it's a smart way to avoid paying a rookie bonus money.

As a side note, I agree with your thoughts on ILBs. What do you think about Reddick. I love the guy and think he has a bright future with us. Wouldn't mind him replacing Lofton. Also, I always thought Humber was amazing but never got the opportunity.

CharityMike 12-31-2013 09:00 PM
Re: This is why Malcolm Jenkins isn't going anywhere
 
Nice TROLL post OP. Worked as intended.

lee909 12-31-2013 11:02 PM
Re: This is why Malcolm Jenkins isn't going anywhere
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by blackangold (Post 566622)
This statement makes no sense at all...

Vaccaro was the starting SS even when Harper was healthy. Bush took over for Jenkins in the 3 S sets and Jenkins usually was dropping in the box.

All that aside if you want to credit them for this year success (even though we drafted a 1st rounder to take their place) then you have to credit them for last years failure.
Im not trying to say they are great players just they are better than somebon this thread have them. There seems to be a lack of middle ground in opinion on them. The are decent players who have helped the defense jump to a top 10 defense . Could they be improved on yes, but the majority of players in most teams xan be improved on.

WHODATINCA 01-01-2014 02:19 AM
Re: This is why Malcolm Jenkins isn't going anywhere
 
I definitely don't know as much as you guys do about the play of individuals in this D. I will say this, I'm surprised there is this much discussion of which players are 'bad' ( or not worth it ) on the 5th ranked D in the league. Doesn't the play of a unit have to do with how the individuals mesh together too? I know it does on the O-Line.

jeanpierre 01-01-2014 07:30 AM
Re: This is why Malcolm Jenkins isn't going anywhere
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Danno (Post 566624)
Vaccaro started at NB week 1 and week 2, and Harper/Jenkins were the starting safeties for both games.

http://www.nfl.com/liveupdate/gamece...O_Gamebook.pdf
http://www.nfl.com/liveupdate/gamece...B_Gamebook.pdf

Harper got hurt and Vaccaro took over at SS in week 3, Jenkins remained the starter at FS.
Saints may have turned in those lineups to smooth Harper's ego, but Vaccaro played most, if not all, the snaps over Harper...

Danno 01-01-2014 10:40 AM
Re: This is why Malcolm Jenkins isn't going anywhere
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeanpierre (Post 566793)
Saints may have turned in those lineups to smooth Harper's ego, but Vaccaro played most, if not all, the snaps over Harper...
That was the starting line-up when the ball was snapped. Its not like baseball.

Harper started at SS, and Vaccaro started at NB. Fact.

Are you just trying to make up stuff about Harper, again?

Maybe they also made Vaccaro put on a 41 jersey for a few snaps so Harper wouldn't get his feelings hurt.:rolleyes:

blackangold 01-01-2014 01:22 PM
Re: This is why Malcolm Jenkins isn't going anywhere
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Danno (Post 566831)
That was the starting line-up when the ball was snapped. Its not like baseball.

Harper started at SS, and Vaccaro started at NB. Fact.

Are you just trying to make up stuff about Harper, again?

Maybe they also made Vaccaro put on a 41 jersey for a few snaps so Harper wouldn't get his feelings hurt.:rolleyes:
Week 1

Harper had 88% of the snaps
Vaccaro had 100%

Week 2

Harper had 69%
Vaccaro had 100%

For the 2013 season:

Harper had 34%
Vaccaro had 87%

Facts....hmmm

FOOTBALL OUTSIDERS: Innovative Statistics, Intelligent Analysis | 2013 NFL SNAP COUNTS

Danno 01-01-2014 01:35 PM
Re: This is why Malcolm Jenkins isn't going anywhere
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by blackangold (Post 566898)
Week 1

Harper had 88% of the snaps
Vaccaro had 100%

Week 2

Harper had 69%
Vaccaro had 100%

For the 2013 season:

Harper had 34%
Vaccaro had 87%

Facts....hmmm

FOOTBALL OUTSIDERS: Innovative Statistics, Intelligent Analysis | 2013 NFL SNAP COUNTS
Not sure what you're getting at. I simply corrected that statement that Harper wasn't the starter at the beginning of the season at SS. Harper did start at SS, and Vaccaro started at NB.
Facts.

|Mitch| 01-01-2014 01:37 PM
Re: This is why Malcolm Jenkins isn't going anywhere
 
I'm just glad none of y'all have a say on actual roster moves :rolleyes:

Danno 01-01-2014 01:41 PM
Re: This is why Malcolm Jenkins isn't going anywhere
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by |Mitch| (Post 566902)
I'm just glad none of y'all have a say on actual roster moves :rolleyes:
I'm glad no one here has a say about anything that happens on the field.

But its not that difficult to determine who was the starting SS for games 1 and 2. NFL.com Gamebooks are awesome.

WhoDatQB 01-02-2014 08:38 AM
Re: This is why Malcolm Jenkins isn't going anywhere
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by WHODATINCA (Post 566778)
I definitely don't know as much as you guys do about the play of individuals in this D. I will say this, I'm surprised there is this much discussion of which players are 'bad' ( or not worth it ) on the 5th ranked D in the league. Doesn't the play of a unit have to do with how the individuals mesh together too? I know it does on the O-Line.
This is probably the best post in this entire thread. If Ryan wants them and thinks they make the defense better as a unit, I could give two craps what I think about them individually.

The fact of the matter is that we can only afford so many great or even good players on a team. The rest of the team is made up of middle of the road guys that have a particular skill set that fits in well with the rest of the side of the ball they are on.

I know we all love Colston, but do any of you honestly think he would be as good on another team? Great hands and good route runner, but slow and because of the positions Sean puts him in he does very well, not all coaches can do this, we just now have a coach in Ryan who is able to do it on the defensive side of the ball as well as Sean on the offensive.

73Saint 01-02-2014 09:14 AM
Re: This is why Malcolm Jenkins isn't going anywhere
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisXVI (Post 566397)
I know... I'm just venting frustration LOL. I bought his damn jersey so I've been dying for him to live up to expectations.
Don't feel bad, i have two of them lol!!!


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