OFFENSE KEEPERS

BlackandBlue · 11-08-2004, 03:25 PM

He has dropped to many passes this year.

He\'s dropped like 2. And for all his \"drops\", what always stands out are his photogenic catches. I think sometimes people\'s opinions of Horn are clouded because of his antics, and not his play on the field. I could make a highlight reel just with his catches this year, alone.

shadowdrinker_x · 11-08-2004, 03:33 PM

whoa..wait up..deuce..a 2000 yard back??..yeah...with a new offensive line...new tight ends...new qb that can make enough of throws to get defenses to bite on the play fake...new offense...basically..we would have to get wide outs that can catch..and block...you say..\'\'the team has to have one side..it can\'t be bad players and bad coaching..\'\'..well..yeah..it can..and it is...wo don\'t have the personel to make venturi\'s schemes effective...our coaches cannot plan..or make adjustments to correct problems that arise during the game...it is painfully obvious that the coaches do not know..or have the slightest idea of how to plan or conduct a practice schedule...and our players in turn..have no idea about whats going on...answer me this..why was gandy behind brooks on the right side...when brooks threw that laughable bacwards pass?..there\'s no way that a screen play has the left tackle lining up behind the qb\'s right side...and aaron threw it to him????..he had no idea what was going on...my point stands...total re-organization...total rebuild..ground up..all sides of the ball..we stink..flat out..no offense..no defense..no special teams..no more excuses...

turbo_dog · 11-08-2004, 03:54 PM

Joe Horn has been our most consistant offensive player for the past three years.

fact-o-bake · 11-08-2004, 04:05 PM

O.K. Danno. I guess I\'m not educated enough, but am hungry for knowledge. Where can I find stats on dropped passes by personnel, also practice squad transactions. As far as the O-line goes, of course I don\'t think we should cut the entire line. I guess what I should say is that not one of them including Bentley is playing well enough to earn a competition free starting position next year.
As far as Stallworth, how long are you supposed to give a guy to develop. This is his third season, and even if he drops less passes than Horn, he rarely makes up for them as Horn always does. If speed was the most important attribute of a receiver, then John Capel would have made the Bears, as well as be an olympic sprinter.

Cassady37 · 11-08-2004, 04:28 PM

Trade Brooks, cut Bouman and pick up a decent utility QB.
Keep Deuce and Karney, pick up a utility back-up rb.
Move Bentley back to guard, pick up a good FA center, keep Holland.
Tell Gandy and Riley to hit the road and pick up two FA\'s to fill the void.
Keep Conwell and Boo at TE, ( I think a new coaching staff will help this problem).
Keep Donte, Pathon and trade Horn unless he renegotiates. Develope Henderson and pick up a good FA WR. Cut Lewis, he\'s had enough.
On defense, keep Grant, Will Smith, Watson, Ruff, MM, Mitchell, Brown, Craft and TJ. Draft LB\'s, Safties . Sign LB\'s and Safties in FA.
Hire Randy Mueller back to be the GM and a lot of these problems will be taken care of, I promise you. O-well, wishful thinking, a Saint\'s fan has got to dream.

Danno · 11-08-2004, 04:46 PM

SYCO:Brooks might not be to blame, but we should get rid of him anyway?

Not unless we can get something for him. I\'m not opposed to keeping him but I\'d love to see one of those trades that help both teams

SYCO: OL- Keep Gandy?!? He is having an off year? Dont get down on him for 1 off year... when an OLman has an off year it is usually the end of the road...

Yeah, we thought the same thing about Roaf. Gandy isn\'t spectacular but he is above average. I say keep him, but keep looking.

SYCO: Deuce would not want to renegotiate right now cause he knows he has had a bad season, but he still knows that he is a top 10 if not top 5 back in the league... Listening to offers for him would be stupid since he is the only sure fire solid player we have...

Based on what? His play 2 years ago? If someone offered a blockbuster deal (ala Ricky Williams) I\'d definitely listen. I\'m not saying trade him for a fricking James Thrash and a 7th rounder! It would have to knock my jock off. But I don\'t think he\'s 100% off-limits either

SYCO: if it came down to Horn or Pathon I would rather keep Pathon who is younger and not as expensive. I will prolly get blasted for that, but like I said before my opinion. He is a professional just plays and shuts up.

I actually agree with this statement 100%.

Fact-o-bake: O.K. Danno. I guess I\'m not educated enough, but am hungry for knowledge. Where can I find stats on dropped passes by personnel, also practice squad transactions.

His dad (Zack Hilton\'s) frequents another forum I read and keeps us informed. Thats the only reason I know we picked him back up.

Fact-o-bake: As far as Stallworth, how long are you supposed to give a guy to develop. This is his third season

Well most WR\'s take 2 or 3 years to develop. AND Donte came out a year earlier than most. With a cap friendly 6 year contract I can see no reason to give up on him this year. He\'s had quite a few great catches this year. More than he\'s dropped.

MAINLY: I think a recurring problem this coaching staff has had is developing players or rather NOT developing players. We have a ton of young players who very well may blossom into stars under a new regime. I don\'t want to throw the baby out with the bathwater.

Danno · 11-08-2004, 05:06 PM

DANNO- If someone offered a blockbuster deal (ala Ricky Williams) I\'d definitely listen.Thats some crazy ****! You must be kidding, Duece for Ricky Williams. WTF??

No, WTF did you read? I meant if someone offered a blockbuster trade, LIKE THE RICKY TRADE A COUPLE YEARS AGO, I\'d definitely listen.
No wonder peoples posts get turned around so often here. Nobody reads them anymore.

SycoSurfer · 11-08-2004, 05:16 PM

ON Aaron Brooks: Not unless we can get something for him. I\'m not opposed to keeping him but I\'d love to see one of those trades that help both teams

Who you think will give us something for a QB who has consistently under acheived and never been a leader? Besides that noone would pay his contract... I would trade him if I thouhgt we had an offer worth it, but come on who would take a shot on him? No one is that desperate... Maybe Miami, but I think they have learned that when we have a troubled player they will let us figure it out...

ON Wayne Gandy: Yeah, we thought the same thing about Roaf. Gandy isn\'t spectacular but he is above average. I say keep him, but keep looking.

If I remember correctly we traded Roaf cause he was coming off an injury and there was alot of internal problems with him and Joe Horn... Not to mention we had a very capable back up with Turley. I dont think we traded Roaf cause he wasnt performing. Gandy might have some left in the tank, but right now he looks absolutley clueless... as shadowdrinker said... what was Gandy doing 10 yards behind Brooks on a pass play? and he was just standing there... maybe he rode his man out the play, but you dont just stop and stand around after you made your block you finish it off till the whistle blows..

ON Deuce McAllister: Based on what? His play 2 years ago? If someone offered a blockbuster deal (ala Ricky Williams) I\'d definitely listen. I\'m not saying trade him for a fricking James Thrash and a 7th rounder! It would have to knock my jock off. But I don\'t think he\'s 100% off-limits either

Did Deuce not run for 1600 yards last year? 500 yards receiving? You think you can just toss him away and replace him? We sure arent Denver. The Cowboys let go of Emmitt and we all know he is over the hill, but they havent been able to replace him. Here you are talking about getting rid of a proven feature back who is 25 years old. If you were refering to the trade in which we got Ricky the one where we gave up the entire draft then yes I would listen, but name one team you think that would do sumthing that stupid? You remember how well it worked out for us? One player is not worth that...

I think you are getting ahead of yourself... its been along season, but dont get so frustrated we get rid of everything... we do have a few decent players on the team...

[Edited on 8/11/2004 by SycoSurfer]

BlackandBlue · 11-08-2004, 05:59 PM

No, WTF did you read? I meant if someone offered a blockbuster trade, LIKE THE RICKY TRADE A COUPLE YEARS AGO, I\'d definitely listen.
No wonder peoples posts get turned around so often here. Nobody reads them anymore.

Ever see the movie \"Baseketball\"? I picture Danno as Ernest Borgnine and gator as Matt Stone during the scene where Matt keeps asking Ernest these asinine questions, and Ernest starts every answer off with, \"What??? No...\" lol

[Edited on 9/11/2004 by BlackandBlue]

BiggPoppaFro3 · 11-08-2004, 06:05 PM

Keep Brooks! Yes he made a stuuuuupid play, but he had no protection. when he has time, he CAN do it. (I knew we were going to lose yesterday when we started the game with 3 straight passes--McCarthy sucks donkey n****!!!) and Bouman is a good backup. I think we are ok there

RB -- Deuce is the present and future. We should be ride his back all the way to the playoffs. Instead we pass a ton and try to play catch up. Run Deuce Run!!! And Karney just rules.

WR -- Horn stays. We can\'t afford to get rid of the only consistent threat we have there. Stallworth may benefit from a new coaching system and Henderson as well. Still A mid round draft pick on a good young guy will help.

TE -- we should have drafted a good one 2 years ago (Whitten, maybe?). I like Boo, but maybe some good, top-end competition will help. Hilton can stay too.

OL -- Bentley and Holland get to stay. Cut the dead weight. We had no reason to go after Gandy. Now we know why. Riley sucks like he worked for Heidi Fleiss and Jacox now doubles as a screen at the local cineplex. Focus FA and 1st rnd draft here. (Munoz - Tennessee or kid from Oklahoma or kid from Miss. State (bias there

DL -- Grant. Next

LB -- Watson and finally a move in FA you dumb, front office bastards!! How do you not even TRY for Takeo Spikes!!??

DB -- FS needs change. All others are surprisingly good.

Just the words of a frustrated Saints fan. At least I\'m on leave while this is happening.

11-08-2004, 03:25 PM	#11
BlackandBlue Kinder, gentler Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: dirty south Posts: 3,889	OFFENSE KEEPERS He has dropped to many passes this year. He\'s dropped like 2. And for all his \"drops\", what always stands out are his photogenic catches. I think sometimes people\'s opinions of Horn are clouded because of his antics, and not his play on the field. I could make a highlight reel just with his catches this year, alone.

11-08-2004, 03:33 PM	#12
shadowdrinker_x Banned Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Texas Posts: 218	OFFENSE KEEPERS whoa..wait up..deuce..a 2000 yard back??..yeah...with a new offensive line...new tight ends...new qb that can make enough of throws to get defenses to bite on the play fake...new offense...basically..we would have to get wide outs that can catch..and block...you say..\'\'the team has to have one side..it can\'t be bad players and bad coaching..\'\'..well..yeah..it can..and it is...wo don\'t have the personel to make venturi\'s schemes effective...our coaches cannot plan..or make adjustments to correct problems that arise during the game...it is painfully obvious that the coaches do not know..or have the slightest idea of how to plan or conduct a practice schedule...and our players in turn..have no idea about whats going on...answer me this..why was gandy behind brooks on the right side...when brooks threw that laughable bacwards pass?..there\'s no way that a screen play has the left tackle lining up behind the qb\'s right side...and aaron threw it to him????..he had no idea what was going on...my point stands...total re-organization...total rebuild..ground up..all sides of the ball..we stink..flat out..no offense..no defense..no special teams..no more excuses...

11-08-2004, 03:54 PM	#13
turbo_dog 1000 Posts + Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Atlanta Posts: 1,576	OFFENSE KEEPERS Joe Horn has been our most consistant offensive player for the past three years.

11-08-2004, 04:05 PM	#14
fact-o-bake 100th Post Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 136	OFFENSE KEEPERS O.K. Danno. I guess I\'m not educated enough, but am hungry for knowledge. Where can I find stats on dropped passes by personnel, also practice squad transactions. As far as the O-line goes, of course I don\'t think we should cut the entire line. I guess what I should say is that not one of them including Bentley is playing well enough to earn a competition free starting position next year. As far as Stallworth, how long are you supposed to give a guy to develop. This is his third season, and even if he drops less passes than Horn, he rarely makes up for them as Horn always does. If speed was the most important attribute of a receiver, then John Capel would have made the Bears, as well as be an olympic sprinter.
fact-o-bake 100th Post Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 136

11-08-2004, 04:28 PM	#15
Cassady37 100th Post Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Kilgore, Texas Posts: 337	OFFENSE KEEPERS Trade Brooks, cut Bouman and pick up a decent utility QB. Keep Deuce and Karney, pick up a utility back-up rb. Move Bentley back to guard, pick up a good FA center, keep Holland. Tell Gandy and Riley to hit the road and pick up two FA\'s to fill the void. Keep Conwell and Boo at TE, ( I think a new coaching staff will help this problem). Keep Donte, Pathon and trade Horn unless he renegotiates. Develope Henderson and pick up a good FA WR. Cut Lewis, he\'s had enough. On defense, keep Grant, Will Smith, Watson, Ruff, MM, Mitchell, Brown, Craft and TJ. Draft LB\'s, Safties . Sign LB\'s and Safties in FA. Hire Randy Mueller back to be the GM and a lot of these problems will be taken care of, I promise you. O-well, wishful thinking, a Saint\'s fan has got to dream.

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11-08-2004, 04:46 PM	#16
Danno Truth Addict Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Spanish Fort, AL (via NO and B/R) Posts: 24,713	OFFENSE KEEPERS SYCO:Brooks might not be to blame, but we should get rid of him anyway? Not unless we can get something for him. I\'m not opposed to keeping him but I\'d love to see one of those trades that help both teams SYCO: OL- Keep Gandy?!? He is having an off year? Dont get down on him for 1 off year... when an OLman has an off year it is usually the end of the road... Yeah, we thought the same thing about Roaf. Gandy isn\'t spectacular but he is above average. I say keep him, but keep looking. SYCO: Deuce would not want to renegotiate right now cause he knows he has had a bad season, but he still knows that he is a top 10 if not top 5 back in the league... Listening to offers for him would be stupid since he is the only sure fire solid player we have... Based on what? His play 2 years ago? If someone offered a blockbuster deal (ala Ricky Williams) I\'d definitely listen. I\'m not saying trade him for a fricking James Thrash and a 7th rounder! It would have to knock my jock off. But I don\'t think he\'s 100% off-limits either SYCO: if it came down to Horn or Pathon I would rather keep Pathon who is younger and not as expensive. I will prolly get blasted for that, but like I said before my opinion. He is a professional just plays and shuts up. I actually agree with this statement 100%. Fact-o-bake: O.K. Danno. I guess I\'m not educated enough, but am hungry for knowledge. Where can I find stats on dropped passes by personnel, also practice squad transactions. His dad (Zack Hilton\'s) frequents another forum I read and keeps us informed. Thats the only reason I know we picked him back up. Fact-o-bake: As far as Stallworth, how long are you supposed to give a guy to develop. This is his third season Well most WR\'s take 2 or 3 years to develop. AND Donte came out a year earlier than most. With a cap friendly 6 year contract I can see no reason to give up on him this year. He\'s had quite a few great catches this year. More than he\'s dropped. MAINLY: I think a recurring problem this coaching staff has had is developing players or rather NOT developing players. We have a ton of young players who very well may blossom into stars under a new regime. I don\'t want to throw the baby out with the bathwater.

11-08-2004, 05:06 PM	#17
Danno Truth Addict Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Spanish Fort, AL (via NO and B/R) Posts: 24,713	OFFENSE KEEPERS DANNO- If someone offered a blockbuster deal (ala Ricky Williams) I\'d definitely listen.Thats some crazy ****! You must be kidding, Duece for Ricky Williams. WTF?? No, WTF did you read? I meant if someone offered a blockbuster trade, LIKE THE RICKY TRADE A COUPLE YEARS AGO, I\'d definitely listen. No wonder peoples posts get turned around so often here. Nobody reads them anymore.

11-08-2004, 05:16 PM	#18
SycoSurfer 100th Post Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 108	OFFENSE KEEPERS ON Aaron Brooks: Not unless we can get something for him. I\'m not opposed to keeping him but I\'d love to see one of those trades that help both teams Who you think will give us something for a QB who has consistently under acheived and never been a leader? Besides that noone would pay his contract... I would trade him if I thouhgt we had an offer worth it, but come on who would take a shot on him? No one is that desperate... Maybe Miami, but I think they have learned that when we have a troubled player they will let us figure it out... ON Wayne Gandy: Yeah, we thought the same thing about Roaf. Gandy isn\'t spectacular but he is above average. I say keep him, but keep looking. If I remember correctly we traded Roaf cause he was coming off an injury and there was alot of internal problems with him and Joe Horn... Not to mention we had a very capable back up with Turley. I dont think we traded Roaf cause he wasnt performing. Gandy might have some left in the tank, but right now he looks absolutley clueless... as shadowdrinker said... what was Gandy doing 10 yards behind Brooks on a pass play? and he was just standing there... maybe he rode his man out the play, but you dont just stop and stand around after you made your block you finish it off till the whistle blows.. ON Deuce McAllister: Based on what? His play 2 years ago? If someone offered a blockbuster deal (ala Ricky Williams) I\'d definitely listen. I\'m not saying trade him for a fricking James Thrash and a 7th rounder! It would have to knock my jock off. But I don\'t think he\'s 100% off-limits either Did Deuce not run for 1600 yards last year? 500 yards receiving? You think you can just toss him away and replace him? We sure arent Denver. The Cowboys let go of Emmitt and we all know he is over the hill, but they havent been able to replace him. Here you are talking about getting rid of a proven feature back who is 25 years old. If you were refering to the trade in which we got Ricky the one where we gave up the entire draft then yes I would listen, but name one team you think that would do sumthing that stupid? You remember how well it worked out for us? One player is not worth that... I think you are getting ahead of yourself... its been along season, but dont get so frustrated we get rid of everything... we do have a few decent players on the team... [Edited on 8/11/2004 by SycoSurfer]
SycoSurfer 100th Post Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 108

11-08-2004, 05:59 PM	#19
BlackandBlue Kinder, gentler Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: dirty south Posts: 3,889	OFFENSE KEEPERS No, WTF did you read? I meant if someone offered a blockbuster trade, LIKE THE RICKY TRADE A COUPLE YEARS AGO, I\'d definitely listen. No wonder peoples posts get turned around so often here. Nobody reads them anymore. Ever see the movie \"Baseketball\"? I picture Danno as Ernest Borgnine and gator as Matt Stone during the scene where Matt keeps asking Ernest these asinine questions, and Ernest starts every answer off with, \"What??? No...\" lol [Edited on 9/11/2004 by BlackandBlue]

11-08-2004, 06:05 PM	#20
BiggPoppaFro3 Registered Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 71	OFFENSE KEEPERS Keep Brooks! Yes he made a stuuuuupid play, but he had no protection. when he has time, he CAN do it. (I knew we were going to lose yesterday when we started the game with 3 straight passes--McCarthy sucks donkey n****!!!) and Bouman is a good backup. I think we are ok there RB -- Deuce is the present and future. We should be ride his back all the way to the playoffs. Instead we pass a ton and try to play catch up. Run Deuce Run!!! And Karney just rules. WR -- Horn stays. We can\'t afford to get rid of the only consistent threat we have there. Stallworth may benefit from a new coaching system and Henderson as well. Still A mid round draft pick on a good young guy will help. TE -- we should have drafted a good one 2 years ago (Whitten, maybe?). I like Boo, but maybe some good, top-end competition will help. Hilton can stay too. OL -- Bentley and Holland get to stay. Cut the dead weight. We had no reason to go after Gandy. Now we know why. Riley sucks like he worked for Heidi Fleiss and Jacox now doubles as a screen at the local cineplex. Focus FA and 1st rnd draft here. (Munoz - Tennessee or kid from Oklahoma or kid from Miss. State (bias there DL -- Grant. Next LB -- Watson and finally a move in FA you dumb, front office bastards!! How do you not even TRY for Takeo Spikes!!?? DB -- FS needs change. All others are surprisingly good. Just the words of a frustrated Saints fan. At least I\'m on leave while this is happening.
BiggPoppaFro3 Registered Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 71