47 years ago today, the first New Orleans Saint was signed

Boutte · 01-30-2014, 08:22 PM

Originally Posted by TheOak

That is what I keep hearing and you can take it as you wish but I just do not see it. I see a lot of hypocrisy and misunderstanding when it comes to Archie and when compared to Drew coming from a passer stand point.

Fine, Archie got sacked a lot.

He didn't have the receivers.
He didn't pass as much and when he did he was an interception machine.

Completion % as a Saint
Archie 55.4
Drew 67.3

Interception %
Archie 4.7%
Drew 2.5%

If Archie has an offensive line he would have passed more and thrown more INTs.

Archie compared to Wilson.. Wilson was sacked more this season.
Archie Manning sack 9.3% INT% 4.7
Russell Wilson (2013) sack 9.8% INT 2.2%

If that doesn't clearly show what i am saying maybe this will.

Archie Manning as a Saint vs Oiler

Sack %
Saints 9.3%
Oilers 15.1%

INT%
Saints 4.7%
Oilers 6.6%

Archie got worse after he left the oh so horrible New Orleans Saints to go go the Houston Oilers... the Saints got better.

Minnesota before Manning 8-8, with Manning 3-13, after Manning 7-9
Houston Oilers before Manning 7-9, with Manning 1-8, after Manning 3-13

New Orleans Saints 1980/1981 with Manning 4-23
New Orleans Saints 1982/1983 with Stabler 11-11

I know i am committing a mortal and nonvenial sin but it was what it was.

Hate to say it Oak but you don't know what you're talking about. Not only didn't you see Archie or the Saints teams of that era. In fact you didn't see that era of NFL football.

Oh and by the way, Kenny Stabler was a horrible QB by that point in his career. If Bum had kept Manning he might have ended his career as a winner instead of the pathetic joke he became.

TheOak · 01-30-2014, 08:53 PM

Originally Posted by jeanpierre

WTH?!? There's nothing taken personal by your post...

...you totally misread the post - I took the firing by Phillips personal and only that was the statement...

Did question how "huntin' with Hokie" gave another insight to Archie Manning's play in New Orleans...

If you have an itch and want to come at me, that's fine, but look back at the thread and several there were several posters that respectfully disagreed with you...

Now if you were offended, or misunderstood the post, I'd be glad to chat with you about it in further detail if it'd make you feel better...

Geaux Saints!

I didn't "go at you" little man. You decided to snipe from the back row at a comment I made to Hagen.

The part about taking things personally was not Bum Phillips specific.

Offended by what?

WhoDat!656 · 01-30-2014, 09:55 PM

Originally Posted by TheOak

So which is it, because I see two distinct stances on the same subject.

Drew Brees's interceptions are his fault.

Archie Mannings's interceptions are the fault of the team.

Are you seriously trying to compare the TEAM Archie Manning played with and the TEAM that Brees plays with?

That is like comparing a crocodile to a chameleon!!

I would venture to say that 30% to 40% of the interceptions that Brees throws are his fault, for whatever reason/s: He mis-read the defense, under/overthrew a pass, forced a pass, etc.

Probably another 30% to 40% are picked off after the ball was tipped by the receiver trying to make a catch.

The rest are because of the defender making a good play, pressure from the defense, weather...

Brees, as well as most QBs, wouldn't have lasted a season playing behind the BEST line that Manning ever had.

The difference in talent level, minus the QB position, on the Saints teams then and know is laughable!

jeanpierre · 01-31-2014, 05:53 PM

Originally Posted by jeanpierre

Understand Business can be a cold-blooded, jealous mistress...

And I don't like to say this idly...

But for me, Archie Manning being traded was personal, and I've hated Bum Phillips every since then...

Originally Posted by TheOak

I didn't "go at you" little man. You decided to snipe from the back row at a comment I made to Hagen.

The part about taking things personally was not Bum Phillips specific.

Offended by what?

Oak, read the quote, the statement is entirely Bum Phillips specific...

If you need help, can recommend a literacy specialist in your area to explain the statement...

If you must continue with this low road dialogue such as your "little man" comment, request you PM me to resolve your issues so the rest of the fans do not need to be a part of these posts...

Take a step back, a deep breath, let it geaux...

Geaux Saints

hagan714 · 01-31-2014, 09:24 PM

Originally Posted by jeanpierre

And yet another argument against allowing marijuana use in the league...

it was a coca thing my freind

hagan714 · 01-31-2014, 09:33 PM

Originally Posted by TheOak

I understand and fully agree on what Archie Manning was to New Orleans, the Saints, and its fans. He was tough as **** and took a beating week in and week out. I have not disagreed with any of that. It doesn't change how he preformed as a passer though.

How do you view it? Does the team make the QB better or does the QB make the team better? As I see it the great QBs make the team better, how many times has it been said by multitudes of members here that we simply can not win if Drew Bree's keeps throwing interceptions? Well Manning threw more interceptions, I know the team was abysmal but Archie's turnovers did nothing to help the situation.

Members say you cant speak honestly about Drew Brees because some people only view him through rose colored glasses.. Well add Archie Manning to the list.

i see that as there is an "I" in team point of view. stats are pointless unless you know what the team was about. thats why so many great players are not in the hall. that is a media way of looking at a player.

if drew played on those teams i really doubt he would have survived or done any better. visa versa. if great players of archies playing days say he was one of the greatest to play i say case closed.

there is no "I" team and everyone goes down with a sinking ship. i do not care who they are.

Drew and Archie are the two greatest QB ever to play for the saints hands down. whats separates them is the teams and coaches they played with.

RailBoss · 01-31-2014, 09:35 PM

Well interesting back and forth thread, two things that were pretty clever.
That line about rose colored glasses was great! Thinking back I must have been wearing them the day I signed in as a Who Dat.
also-
Elisha Archibald "Archie" Manning III aka "The Glimmer Man"
Archie was sacked 340 times during his Saints career.
He must have had a great sense of humor as well.
Loved what he said about Jack Youngblood
"I've got to say that Youngblood was nice enough to pick me up every time he knocked my (butt) off." Today, Manning jokes that Youngblood's career would not have been as successful without him. He even suggested that Youngblood should have let him be his presenter when he was inducted into the Pro Football Hall of Fame in 2001, saying, "He wouldn’t have gotten in without having me to sack."

halloween 65 · 01-31-2014, 09:50 PM

Originally Posted by RailBoss

Well interesting back and forth thread, two things that were pretty clever.
That line about rose colored glasses was great! Thinking back I must have been wearing them the day I signed in as a Who Dat.
also-
Elisha Archibald "Archie" Manning III aka "The Glimmer Man"
Archie was sacked 340 times during his Saints career.
He must have had a great sense of humor as well.
Loved what he said about Jack Youngblood
"I've got to say that Youngblood was nice enough to pick me up every time he knocked my (butt) off." Today, Manning jokes that Youngblood's career would not have been as successful without him. He even suggested that Youngblood should have let him be his presenter when he was inducted into the Pro Football Hall of Fame in 2001, saying, "He wouldn’t have gotten in without having me to sack."

I loved that. Thanks!!

TheOak · 02-03-2014, 08:44 AM

Originally Posted by jeanpierre

Oak, read the quote, the statement is entirely Bum Phillips specific...

If you need help, can recommend a literacy specialist in your area to explain the statement...

If you must continue with this low road dialogue such as your "little man" comment, request you PM me to resolve your issues so the rest of the fans do not need to be a part of these posts...

Take a step back, a deep breath, let it geaux...

Geaux Saints

My literacy is fine. I must have been too vague, so I shall rephrase the statement.

Previous quoted txt "The part about taking things personally was not Bum Phillips specific. "

Should have read "When I said you take things personally, I was not being Bum Phillips specific." E.g. You take anything negative said about a Manning personally, as evident by your reply to a comment I made to someone else.

My original statement still stands. I replied to Hagen, he understood my intent. You kind sir took it as an opportunity to snipe at me from the back row. If you do not care for 'low road', then don't start down that path. The intent of my hunting comment is fairly clear and draws a logical picture to most. I do believe Private Messaging was available when you chose to question my comment to Hagen.

Euphoria · 02-03-2014, 09:08 AM

Everyone from Houston was coming to New Orleans is the reason for that.

01-30-2014, 08:22 PM	#31
Boutte Site Donor Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Belle Chasse Posts: 1,701	Re: 47 years ago today, the first New Orleans Saint was signed Originally Posted by TheOak That is what I keep hearing and you can take it as you wish but I just do not see it. I see a lot of hypocrisy and misunderstanding when it comes to Archie and when compared to Drew coming from a passer stand point. Fine, Archie got sacked a lot. He didn't have the receivers. He didn't pass as much and when he did he was an interception machine. Completion % as a Saint Archie 55.4 Drew 67.3 Interception % Archie 4.7% Drew 2.5% If Archie has an offensive line he would have passed more and thrown more INTs. Archie compared to Wilson.. Wilson was sacked more this season. Archie Manning sack 9.3% INT% 4.7 Russell Wilson (2013) sack 9.8% INT 2.2% If that doesn't clearly show what i am saying maybe this will. Archie Manning as a Saint vs Oiler Sack % Saints 9.3% Oilers 15.1% INT% Saints 4.7% Oilers 6.6% Archie got worse after he left the oh so horrible New Orleans Saints to go go the Houston Oilers... the Saints got better. Minnesota before Manning 8-8, with Manning 3-13, after Manning 7-9 Houston Oilers before Manning 7-9, with Manning 1-8, after Manning 3-13 New Orleans Saints 1980/1981 with Manning 4-23 New Orleans Saints 1982/1983 with Stabler 11-11 I know i am committing a mortal and nonvenial sin but it was what it was. Hate to say it Oak but you don't know what you're talking about. Not only didn't you see Archie or the Saints teams of that era. In fact you didn't see that era of NFL football. Oh and by the way, Kenny Stabler was a horrible QB by that point in his career. If Bum had kept Manning he might have ended his career as a winner instead of the pathetic joke he became.

01-30-2014, 08:53 PM	#32
TheOak 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Cypress Tx. Posts: 19,026	Re: 47 years ago today, the first New Orleans Saint was signed Originally Posted by jeanpierre WTH?!? There's nothing taken personal by your post... ...you totally misread the post - I took the firing by Phillips personal and only that was the statement... Did question how "huntin' with Hokie" gave another insight to Archie Manning's play in New Orleans... If you have an itch and want to come at me, that's fine, but look back at the thread and several there were several posters that respectfully disagreed with you... Now if you were offended, or misunderstood the post, I'd be glad to chat with you about it in further detail if it'd make you feel better... Geaux Saints! I didn't "go at you" little man. You decided to snipe from the back row at a comment I made to Hagen. The part about taking things personally was not Bum Phillips specific. Offended by what?

01-30-2014, 09:55 PM	#33
WhoDat!656 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Shreveport,Louisiana Posts: 16,046	Re: 47 years ago today, the first New Orleans Saint was signed Originally Posted by TheOak So which is it, because I see two distinct stances on the same subject. Drew Brees's interceptions are his fault. Archie Mannings's interceptions are the fault of the team. Are you seriously trying to compare the TEAM Archie Manning played with and the TEAM that Brees plays with? That is like comparing a crocodile to a chameleon!! I would venture to say that 30% to 40% of the interceptions that Brees throws are his fault, for whatever reason/s: He mis-read the defense, under/overthrew a pass, forced a pass, etc. Probably another 30% to 40% are picked off after the ball was tipped by the receiver trying to make a catch. The rest are because of the defender making a good play, pressure from the defense, weather... Brees, as well as most QBs, wouldn't have lasted a season playing behind the BEST line that Manning ever had. The difference in talent level, minus the QB position, on the Saints teams then and know is laughable!
	"A Veteran is someone who, at one point in his life, wrote a blank check made payable to "The United States of America" for an amount of "up to and including my life."

01-31-2014, 05:53 PM	#34
jeanpierre Site Donor 2018 Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Thibodaux Posts: 43,543 Blog Entries: 39	Re: 47 years ago today, the first New Orleans Saint was signed Originally Posted by jeanpierre Understand Business can be a cold-blooded, jealous mistress... And I don't like to say this idly... But for me, Archie Manning being traded was personal, and I've hated Bum Phillips every since then... Originally Posted by TheOak I didn't "go at you" little man. You decided to snipe from the back row at a comment I made to Hagen. The part about taking things personally was not Bum Phillips specific. Offended by what? Oak, read the quote, the statement is entirely Bum Phillips specific... If you need help, can recommend a literacy specialist in your area to explain the statement... If you must continue with this low road dialogue such as your "little man" comment, request you PM me to resolve your issues so the rest of the fans do not need to be a part of these posts... Take a step back, a deep breath, let it geaux... Geaux Saints

01-31-2014, 09:24 PM	#35
hagan714 LB Mentallity Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 15,870 Blog Entries: 68	Re: 47 years ago today, the first New Orleans Saint was signed Originally Posted by jeanpierre And yet another argument against allowing marijuana use in the league... it was a coca thing my freind jeanpierre and WhoDat!656 like this.

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01-31-2014, 09:33 PM	#36
hagan714 LB Mentallity Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 15,870 Blog Entries: 68	Re: 47 years ago today, the first New Orleans Saint was signed Originally Posted by TheOak I understand and fully agree on what Archie Manning was to New Orleans, the Saints, and its fans. He was tough as **** and took a beating week in and week out. I have not disagreed with any of that. It doesn't change how he preformed as a passer though. How do you view it? Does the team make the QB better or does the QB make the team better? As I see it the great QBs make the team better, how many times has it been said by multitudes of members here that we simply can not win if Drew Bree's keeps throwing interceptions? Well Manning threw more interceptions, I know the team was abysmal but Archie's turnovers did nothing to help the situation. Members say you cant speak honestly about Drew Brees because some people only view him through rose colored glasses.. Well add Archie Manning to the list. i see that as there is an "I" in team point of view. stats are pointless unless you know what the team was about. thats why so many great players are not in the hall. that is a media way of looking at a player. if drew played on those teams i really doubt he would have survived or done any better. visa versa. if great players of archies playing days say he was one of the greatest to play i say case closed. there is no "I" team and everyone goes down with a sinking ship. i do not care who they are. Drew and Archie are the two greatest QB ever to play for the saints hands down. whats separates them is the teams and coaches they played with. jeanpierre likes this.
	"We may have lost the game, but you'll be hurting tomorrow." Doug Atkins Last edited by hagan714; 01-31-2014 at 09:36 PM..

01-31-2014, 09:35 PM	#37
RailBoss 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: South Of The Mason Dixon Line Posts: 7,113	Re: 47 years ago today, the first New Orleans Saint was signed Well interesting back and forth thread, two things that were pretty clever. That line about rose colored glasses was great! Thinking back I must have been wearing them the day I signed in as a Who Dat. also- Elisha Archibald "Archie" Manning III aka "The Glimmer Man" Archie was sacked 340 times during his Saints career. He must have had a great sense of humor as well. Loved what he said about Jack Youngblood "I've got to say that Youngblood was nice enough to pick me up every time he knocked my (butt) off." Today, Manning jokes that Youngblood's career would not have been as successful without him. He even suggested that Youngblood should have let him be his presenter when he was inducted into the Pro Football Hall of Fame in 2001, saying, "He wouldn’t have gotten in without having me to sack." jeanpierre and halloween 65 like this.

01-31-2014, 09:50 PM	#38
halloween 65 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Grand Haven, Michigan by way of a little Mississippi River town in Louisiana Posts: 5,893	Re: 47 years ago today, the first New Orleans Saint was signed Originally Posted by RailBoss Well interesting back and forth thread, two things that were pretty clever. That line about rose colored glasses was great! Thinking back I must have been wearing them the day I signed in as a Who Dat. also- Elisha Archibald "Archie" Manning III aka "The Glimmer Man" Archie was sacked 340 times during his Saints career. He must have had a great sense of humor as well. Loved what he said about Jack Youngblood "I've got to say that Youngblood was nice enough to pick me up every time he knocked my (butt) off." Today, Manning jokes that Youngblood's career would not have been as successful without him. He even suggested that Youngblood should have let him be his presenter when he was inducted into the Pro Football Hall of Fame in 2001, saying, "He wouldn’t have gotten in without having me to sack." I loved that. Thanks!! jeanpierre likes this.

02-03-2014, 08:44 AM	#39
TheOak 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Cypress Tx. Posts: 19,026	Re: 47 years ago today, the first New Orleans Saint was signed Originally Posted by jeanpierre Oak, read the quote, the statement is entirely Bum Phillips specific... If you need help, can recommend a literacy specialist in your area to explain the statement... If you must continue with this low road dialogue such as your "little man" comment, request you PM me to resolve your issues so the rest of the fans do not need to be a part of these posts... Take a step back, a deep breath, let it geaux... Geaux Saints My literacy is fine. I must have been too vague, so I shall rephrase the statement. Previous quoted txt "The part about taking things personally was not Bum Phillips specific. " Should have read "When I said you take things personally, I was not being Bum Phillips specific." E.g. You take anything negative said about a Manning personally, as evident by your reply to a comment I made to someone else. My original statement still stands. I replied to Hagen, he understood my intent. You kind sir took it as an opportunity to snipe at me from the back row. If you do not care for 'low road', then don't start down that path. The intent of my hunting comment is fairly clear and draws a logical picture to most. I do believe Private Messaging was available when you chose to question my comment to Hagen.
	It's not what you look at that matters, it's what you see. ~ Henry David Thoreau

02-03-2014, 09:08 AM	#40
Euphoria 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Hollywood, CA Posts: 7,601 Blog Entries: 5	Re: 47 years ago today, the first New Orleans Saint was signed Everyone from Houston was coming to New Orleans is the reason for that.

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