47 years ago today, the first New Orleans Saint was signed

TheOak · 01-29-2014, 08:43 AM

43 years ago yesterday Archie Manning was drafted.
New Orleans Saints Fact of the Day: January 28, 2014

halloween 65 · 01-29-2014, 08:55 AM

Originally Posted by TheOak

43 years ago yesterday Archie Manning was drafted.
New Orleans Saints Fact of the Day: January 28, 2014

If only he ever had a decent O-line things might have been way different back then!! Talk about getting sacked, taking hard shots and running for his life, he!! Brees has got it made compared to Archie.

TheOak · 01-29-2014, 09:36 AM

Originally Posted by halloween 65

If only he ever had a decent O-line things might have been way different back then!! Talk about getting sacked, taking hard shots and running for his life, he!! Brees has got it made compared to Archie.

That is what I keep hearing and you can take it as you wish but I just do not see it. I see a lot of hypocrisy and misunderstanding when it comes to Archie and when compared to Drew coming from a passer stand point.

Fine, Archie got sacked a lot.

He didn't have the receivers.
He didn't pass as much and when he did he was an interception machine.

Completion % as a Saint
Archie 55.4
Drew 67.3

Interception %
Archie 4.7%
Drew 2.5%

If Archie has an offensive line he would have passed more and thrown more INTs.

Archie compared to Wilson.. Wilson was sacked more this season.
Archie Manning sack 9.3% INT% 4.7
Russell Wilson (2013) sack 9.8% INT 2.2%

If that doesn't clearly show what i am saying maybe this will.

Archie Manning as a Saint vs Oiler

Sack %
Saints 9.3%
Oilers 15.1%

INT%
Saints 4.7%
Oilers 6.6%

Archie got worse after he left the oh so horrible New Orleans Saints to go go the Houston Oilers... the Saints got better.

Minnesota before Manning 8-8, with Manning 3-13, after Manning 7-9
Houston Oilers before Manning 7-9, with Manning 1-8, after Manning 3-13

New Orleans Saints 1980/1981 with Manning 4-23
New Orleans Saints 1982/1983 with Stabler 11-11

I know i am committing a mortal and nonvenial sin but it was what it was.

WhoDat!656 · 01-29-2014, 07:11 PM

Originally Posted by TheOak

That is what I keep hearing and you can take it as you wish but I just do not see it. I see a lot of hypocrisy and misunderstanding when it comes to Archie and when compared to Drew coming from a passer stand point.

Fine, Archie got sacked a lot.

He didn't have the receivers.
He didn't pass as much and when he did he was an interception machine.

Completion % as a Saint
Archie 55.4
Drew 67.3

Interception %
Archie 4.7%
Drew 2.5%

If Archie has an offensive line he would have passed more and thrown more INTs.

Archie compared to Wilson.. Wilson was sacked more this season.
Archie Manning sack 9.3% INT% 4.7
Russell Wilson (2013) sack 9.8% INT 2.2%

If that doesn't clearly show what i am saying maybe this will.

Archie Manning as a Saint vs Oiler

Sack %
Saints 9.3%
Oilers 15.1%

INT%
Saints 4.7%
Oilers 6.6%

Archie got worse after he left the oh so horrible New Orleans Saints to go go the Houston Oilers... the Saints got better.

Minnesota before Manning 8-8, with Manning 3-13, after Manning 7-9
Houston Oilers before Manning 7-9, with Manning 1-8, after Manning 3-13

New Orleans Saints 1980/1981 with Manning 4-23
New Orleans Saints 1982/1983 with Stabler 11-11

I know i am committing a mortal and nonvenial sin but it was what it was.

How would any QB from any other team in that era have done playing for the Saints under the same exact conditions that Manning had to play under?

TheOak · 01-30-2014, 06:52 AM

Originally Posted by WhoDat!656

How would any QB from any other team in that era have done playing for the Saints under the same exact conditions that Manning had to play under?

So which is it, because I see two distinct stances on the same subject.

Drew Brees's interceptions are his fault.

Archie Mannings's interceptions are the fault of the team.

halloween 65 · 01-30-2014, 07:41 AM

Originally Posted by TheOak

So which is it, because I see two distinct stances on the same subject.

Drew Brees's interceptions are his fault.

Archie Mannings's interceptions are the fault of the team.

Oak this might help but in the Manning years it was like junk time most of the time. Archie was a extreamly well liked, very talented and really tough QB. back in the old days, really talent wise comparable to Bradshaw, Stauback and other top tier QB.'s in that era. We were fortunate as Saints fans to have any glimmer of hope. Manning was our hope, the Saints organization was his downfall. And yes when any QB. throws an int, it's their fault but in Archies defense not only would Brees look like a poster child of a Vicidin commercial his career would be over. Even as a kid watching the game on a T.V. that had a box on it that you would turn the knob to clear the channel up, or sent outside on the roof of the house to adjust the antenna how many more brutal hits Archie could take before he wouldn't get up. He got up, that was hope. Winning 1 maybe 2 games a year with Manning give all of us hope. In Archies case stats will always be just that, stats, it will never tell the true story of a man that played his heart out each and every game.

TheOak · 01-30-2014, 08:09 AM

Originally Posted by halloween 65

Oak this might help but in the Manning years it was like junk time most of the time. Archie was a extreamly well liked, very talented and really tough QB. back in the old days, really talent wise comparable to Bradshaw, Stauback and other top tier QB.'s in that era. We were fortunate as Saints fans to have any glimmer of hope. Manning was our hope, the Saints organization was his downfall. And yes when any QB. throws an int, it's their fault but in Archies defense not only would Brees look like a poster child of a Vicidin commercial his career would be over. Even as a kid watching the game on a T.V. that had a box on it that you would turn the knob to clear the channel up, or sent outside on the roof of the house to adjust the antenna how many more brutal hits Archie could take before he wouldn't get up. He got up, that was hope. Winning 1 maybe 2 games a year with Manning give all of us hope. In Archies case stats will always be just that, stats, it will never tell the true story of a man that played his heart out each and every game.

I understand and fully agree on what Archie Manning was to New Orleans, the Saints, and its fans. He was tough as **** and took a beating week in and week out. I have not disagreed with any of that. It doesn't change how he preformed as a passer though.

How do you view it? Does the team make the QB better or does the QB make the team better? As I see it the great QBs make the team better, how many times has it been said by multitudes of members here that we simply can not win if Drew Bree's keeps throwing interceptions? Well Manning threw more interceptions, I know the team was abysmal but Archie's turnovers did nothing to help the situation.

Members say you cant speak honestly about Drew Brees because some people only view him through rose colored glasses.. Well add Archie Manning to the list.

WhoDat!656 · 01-30-2014, 08:55 PM

Originally Posted by TheOak

So which is it, because I see two distinct stances on the same subject.

Drew Brees's interceptions are his fault.

Archie Mannings's interceptions are the fault of the team.

Are you seriously trying to compare the TEAM Archie Manning played with and the TEAM that Brees plays with?

That is like comparing a crocodile to a chameleon!!

I would venture to say that 30% to 40% of the interceptions that Brees throws are his fault, for whatever reason/s: He mis-read the defense, under/overthrew a pass, forced a pass, etc.

Probably another 30% to 40% are picked off after the ball was tipped by the receiver trying to make a catch.

The rest are because of the defender making a good play, pressure from the defense, weather...

Brees, as well as most QBs, wouldn't have lasted a season playing behind the BEST line that Manning ever had.

The difference in talent level, minus the QB position, on the Saints teams then and know is laughable!

Utah_Saint · 01-29-2014, 08:00 PM

Originally Posted by TheOak

Minnesota before Manning 8-8, with Manning 3-13, after Manning 7-9
Houston Oilers before Manning 7-9, with Manning 1-8, after Manning 3-13

New Orleans Saints 1980/1981 with Manning 4-23
New Orleans Saints 1982/1983 with Stabler 11-11

On the other hand...

1970 Billy Kilmer with the Saints 2-9
1971 Billy Kilmer with the Redskins 8-4-1

maybe it was the Saints

Boutte · 01-30-2014, 07:22 PM

Originally Posted by TheOak

That is what I keep hearing and you can take it as you wish but I just do not see it. I see a lot of hypocrisy and misunderstanding when it comes to Archie and when compared to Drew coming from a passer stand point.

Fine, Archie got sacked a lot.

He didn't have the receivers.
He didn't pass as much and when he did he was an interception machine.

Completion % as a Saint
Archie 55.4
Drew 67.3

Interception %
Archie 4.7%
Drew 2.5%

If Archie has an offensive line he would have passed more and thrown more INTs.

Archie compared to Wilson.. Wilson was sacked more this season.
Archie Manning sack 9.3% INT% 4.7
Russell Wilson (2013) sack 9.8% INT 2.2%

If that doesn't clearly show what i am saying maybe this will.

Archie Manning as a Saint vs Oiler

Sack %
Saints 9.3%
Oilers 15.1%

INT%
Saints 4.7%
Oilers 6.6%

Archie got worse after he left the oh so horrible New Orleans Saints to go go the Houston Oilers... the Saints got better.

Minnesota before Manning 8-8, with Manning 3-13, after Manning 7-9
Houston Oilers before Manning 7-9, with Manning 1-8, after Manning 3-13

New Orleans Saints 1980/1981 with Manning 4-23
New Orleans Saints 1982/1983 with Stabler 11-11

I know i am committing a mortal and nonvenial sin but it was what it was.

Hate to say it Oak but you don't know what you're talking about. Not only didn't you see Archie or the Saints teams of that era. In fact you didn't see that era of NFL football.

Oh and by the way, Kenny Stabler was a horrible QB by that point in his career. If Bum had kept Manning he might have ended his career as a winner instead of the pathetic joke he became.

01-29-2014, 08:43 AM	#1
TheOak 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Cypress Tx. Posts: 19,039	Re: 47 years ago today, the first New Orleans Saint was signed 43 years ago yesterday Archie Manning was drafted. New Orleans Saints Fact of the Day: January 28, 2014 foreverfan likes this.

01-29-2014, 08:55 AM	#2
halloween 65 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Grand Haven, Michigan by way of a little Mississippi River town in Louisiana Posts: 5,893	Re: 47 years ago today, the first New Orleans Saint was signed Originally Posted by TheOak 43 years ago yesterday Archie Manning was drafted. New Orleans Saints Fact of the Day: January 28, 2014 If only he ever had a decent O-line things might have been way different back then!! Talk about getting sacked, taking hard shots and running for his life, he!! Brees has got it made compared to Archie. RailBoss, hagan714, jeanpierre and 1 others like this.

01-29-2014, 09:36 AM	#3
TheOak 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Cypress Tx. Posts: 19,039	Re: 47 years ago today, the first New Orleans Saint was signed Originally Posted by halloween 65 If only he ever had a decent O-line things might have been way different back then!! Talk about getting sacked, taking hard shots and running for his life, he!! Brees has got it made compared to Archie. That is what I keep hearing and you can take it as you wish but I just do not see it. I see a lot of hypocrisy and misunderstanding when it comes to Archie and when compared to Drew coming from a passer stand point. Fine, Archie got sacked a lot. He didn't have the receivers. He didn't pass as much and when he did he was an interception machine. Completion % as a Saint Archie 55.4 Drew 67.3 Interception % Archie 4.7% Drew 2.5% If Archie has an offensive line he would have passed more and thrown more INTs. Archie compared to Wilson.. Wilson was sacked more this season. Archie Manning sack 9.3% INT% 4.7 Russell Wilson (2013) sack 9.8% INT 2.2% If that doesn't clearly show what i am saying maybe this will. Archie Manning as a Saint vs Oiler Sack % Saints 9.3% Oilers 15.1% INT% Saints 4.7% Oilers 6.6% Archie got worse after he left the oh so horrible New Orleans Saints to go go the Houston Oilers... the Saints got better. Minnesota before Manning 8-8, with Manning 3-13, after Manning 7-9 Houston Oilers before Manning 7-9, with Manning 1-8, after Manning 3-13 New Orleans Saints 1980/1981 with Manning 4-23 New Orleans Saints 1982/1983 with Stabler 11-11 I know i am committing a mortal and nonvenial sin but it was what it was.
	It's not what you look at that matters, it's what you see. ~ Henry David Thoreau Last edited by TheOak; 01-29-2014 at 09:39 AM..

01-29-2014, 07:11 PM	#4
WhoDat!656 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Shreveport,Louisiana Posts: 16,085	Re: 47 years ago today, the first New Orleans Saint was signed Originally Posted by TheOak That is what I keep hearing and you can take it as you wish but I just do not see it. I see a lot of hypocrisy and misunderstanding when it comes to Archie and when compared to Drew coming from a passer stand point. Fine, Archie got sacked a lot. He didn't have the receivers. He didn't pass as much and when he did he was an interception machine. Completion % as a Saint Archie 55.4 Drew 67.3 Interception % Archie 4.7% Drew 2.5% If Archie has an offensive line he would have passed more and thrown more INTs. Archie compared to Wilson.. Wilson was sacked more this season. Archie Manning sack 9.3% INT% 4.7 Russell Wilson (2013) sack 9.8% INT 2.2% If that doesn't clearly show what i am saying maybe this will. Archie Manning as a Saint vs Oiler Sack % Saints 9.3% Oilers 15.1% INT% Saints 4.7% Oilers 6.6% Archie got worse after he left the oh so horrible New Orleans Saints to go go the Houston Oilers... the Saints got better. Minnesota before Manning 8-8, with Manning 3-13, after Manning 7-9 Houston Oilers before Manning 7-9, with Manning 1-8, after Manning 3-13 New Orleans Saints 1980/1981 with Manning 4-23 New Orleans Saints 1982/1983 with Stabler 11-11 I know i am committing a mortal and nonvenial sin but it was what it was. How would any QB from any other team in that era have done playing for the Saints under the same exact conditions that Manning had to play under?

01-30-2014, 06:52 AM	#5
TheOak 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Cypress Tx. Posts: 19,039	Re: 47 years ago today, the first New Orleans Saint was signed Originally Posted by WhoDat!656 How would any QB from any other team in that era have done playing for the Saints under the same exact conditions that Manning had to play under? So which is it, because I see two distinct stances on the same subject. Drew Brees's interceptions are his fault. Archie Mannings's interceptions are the fault of the team.

01-30-2014, 07:41 AM	#6
halloween 65 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Grand Haven, Michigan by way of a little Mississippi River town in Louisiana Posts: 5,893	Re: 47 years ago today, the first New Orleans Saint was signed Originally Posted by TheOak So which is it, because I see two distinct stances on the same subject. Drew Brees's interceptions are his fault. Archie Mannings's interceptions are the fault of the team. Oak this might help but in the Manning years it was like junk time most of the time. Archie was a extreamly well liked, very talented and really tough QB. back in the old days, really talent wise comparable to Bradshaw, Stauback and other top tier QB.'s in that era. We were fortunate as Saints fans to have any glimmer of hope. Manning was our hope, the Saints organization was his downfall. And yes when any QB. throws an int, it's their fault but in Archies defense not only would Brees look like a poster child of a Vicidin commercial his career would be over. Even as a kid watching the game on a T.V. that had a box on it that you would turn the knob to clear the channel up, or sent outside on the roof of the house to adjust the antenna how many more brutal hits Archie could take before he wouldn't get up. He got up, that was hope. Winning 1 maybe 2 games a year with Manning give all of us hope. In Archies case stats will always be just that, stats, it will never tell the true story of a man that played his heart out each and every game. TheOak likes this.

01-30-2014, 08:09 AM	#7
TheOak 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Cypress Tx. Posts: 19,039	Re: 47 years ago today, the first New Orleans Saint was signed Originally Posted by halloween 65 Oak this might help but in the Manning years it was like junk time most of the time. Archie was a extreamly well liked, very talented and really tough QB. back in the old days, really talent wise comparable to Bradshaw, Stauback and other top tier QB.'s in that era. We were fortunate as Saints fans to have any glimmer of hope. Manning was our hope, the Saints organization was his downfall. And yes when any QB. throws an int, it's their fault but in Archies defense not only would Brees look like a poster child of a Vicidin commercial his career would be over. Even as a kid watching the game on a T.V. that had a box on it that you would turn the knob to clear the channel up, or sent outside on the roof of the house to adjust the antenna how many more brutal hits Archie could take before he wouldn't get up. He got up, that was hope. Winning 1 maybe 2 games a year with Manning give all of us hope. In Archies case stats will always be just that, stats, it will never tell the true story of a man that played his heart out each and every game. I understand and fully agree on what Archie Manning was to New Orleans, the Saints, and its fans. He was tough as **** and took a beating week in and week out. I have not disagreed with any of that. It doesn't change how he preformed as a passer though. How do you view it? Does the team make the QB better or does the QB make the team better? As I see it the great QBs make the team better, how many times has it been said by multitudes of members here that we simply can not win if Drew Bree's keeps throwing interceptions? Well Manning threw more interceptions, I know the team was abysmal but Archie's turnovers did nothing to help the situation. Members say you cant speak honestly about Drew Brees because some people only view him through rose colored glasses.. Well add Archie Manning to the list.
	It's not what you look at that matters, it's what you see. ~ Henry David Thoreau

01-30-2014, 08:55 PM	#8
WhoDat!656 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Shreveport,Louisiana Posts: 16,085	Re: 47 years ago today, the first New Orleans Saint was signed Originally Posted by TheOak So which is it, because I see two distinct stances on the same subject. Drew Brees's interceptions are his fault. Archie Mannings's interceptions are the fault of the team. Are you seriously trying to compare the TEAM Archie Manning played with and the TEAM that Brees plays with? That is like comparing a crocodile to a chameleon!! I would venture to say that 30% to 40% of the interceptions that Brees throws are his fault, for whatever reason/s: He mis-read the defense, under/overthrew a pass, forced a pass, etc. Probably another 30% to 40% are picked off after the ball was tipped by the receiver trying to make a catch. The rest are because of the defender making a good play, pressure from the defense, weather... Brees, as well as most QBs, wouldn't have lasted a season playing behind the BEST line that Manning ever had. The difference in talent level, minus the QB position, on the Saints teams then and know is laughable!
	"A Veteran is someone who, at one point in his life, wrote a blank check made payable to "The United States of America" for an amount of "up to and including my life."

01-29-2014, 08:00 PM	#9
Utah_Saint Site Donor 2019 Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Salt Lake City, Utah Posts: 3,521	Re: 47 years ago today, the first New Orleans Saint was signed Originally Posted by TheOak Minnesota before Manning 8-8, with Manning 3-13, after Manning 7-9 Houston Oilers before Manning 7-9, with Manning 1-8, after Manning 3-13 New Orleans Saints 1980/1981 with Manning 4-23 New Orleans Saints 1982/1983 with Stabler 11-11 On the other hand... 1970 Billy Kilmer with the Saints 2-9 1971 Billy Kilmer with the Redskins 8-4-1 maybe it was the Saints

01-30-2014, 07:22 PM	#10
Boutte Site Donor Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Belle Chasse Posts: 1,701	Re: 47 years ago today, the first New Orleans Saint was signed Originally Posted by TheOak That is what I keep hearing and you can take it as you wish but I just do not see it. I see a lot of hypocrisy and misunderstanding when it comes to Archie and when compared to Drew coming from a passer stand point. Fine, Archie got sacked a lot. He didn't have the receivers. He didn't pass as much and when he did he was an interception machine. Completion % as a Saint Archie 55.4 Drew 67.3 Interception % Archie 4.7% Drew 2.5% If Archie has an offensive line he would have passed more and thrown more INTs. Archie compared to Wilson.. Wilson was sacked more this season. Archie Manning sack 9.3% INT% 4.7 Russell Wilson (2013) sack 9.8% INT 2.2% If that doesn't clearly show what i am saying maybe this will. Archie Manning as a Saint vs Oiler Sack % Saints 9.3% Oilers 15.1% INT% Saints 4.7% Oilers 6.6% Archie got worse after he left the oh so horrible New Orleans Saints to go go the Houston Oilers... the Saints got better. Minnesota before Manning 8-8, with Manning 3-13, after Manning 7-9 Houston Oilers before Manning 7-9, with Manning 1-8, after Manning 3-13 New Orleans Saints 1980/1981 with Manning 4-23 New Orleans Saints 1982/1983 with Stabler 11-11 I know i am committing a mortal and nonvenial sin but it was what it was. Hate to say it Oak but you don't know what you're talking about. Not only didn't you see Archie or the Saints teams of that era. In fact you didn't see that era of NFL football. Oh and by the way, Kenny Stabler was a horrible QB by that point in his career. If Bum had kept Manning he might have ended his career as a winner instead of the pathetic joke he became.

LinkBacks (?) LinkBack to this Thread: https://blackandgold.com/saints/64074-47-years-ago-today-first-new-orleans-saint-signed.html
Posted By	For	Type	Date	Hits
The Latest New Orleans Saints News \| SportSpyder	This thread	Refback	01-29-2014 09:46 AM	4
47 years ago today, the first New Orleans Saint was signed	This thread	Refback	01-28-2014 07:18 PM	20